Robert Garcia (00:00):
... across this country. And so we are of course excited to be here and understand how important it is for everyone to really understand what's going on at this moment. We're also going to be hearing from a variety of witnesses as well. And we're very grateful to everyone for being here. I want to also just mention that we're going to have members of the Senate as well as members of the House that are be coming in and out to ask questions. And so I want to welcome, of course, our members of the House Oversight Committee. And then of course we're going to be having members of the U.S. Senate here as well. I'm going to begin with some opening comments. Then I'm going to turn over to Senator Blumenthal, who's also going to be introducing two of our first witnesses that are here. We'll be hearing from them in just a minute.
(00:45)
Welcome to both of you, of course. And then we'll be going on to questions after the two sets of opening statements. And so we'll go ahead and begin. I want to just note that we're here because the Department of Homeland Security, ICE, and of course broader agencies across DHS are completely out of control. And because Congress has a responsibility to step in when constitutional rights are being violated. Now in December, of course, Senator Blumenthal and I convened a hearing to call out the unlawful arrests of U.S. citizens detained by ICE and CVP. And since that time, the violence and the lawlessness has actually escalated. So we're going to continue to hold hearings and we're going to continue to push back. And I want to begin by just showing this chart right here. Now, back in July, Donald Trump and Republicans passed a law that cut hundreds of billions of dollars from healthcare and food assistance.
(01:44)
And they used that money to hire thousands of ICE agents who are now terrorizing cities and killing United States citizens. Now, this chart shows how they made ICE the highest funded law enforcement agency in the history of the United States. 10 years ago, the ICE budget was less than $6 billion. Last year, it was over $85 billion. And if you look at funding for the agency and look at what just happened in the last year, it is stunning to see how much we are spending across this country to terrorize, disfigure, in some cases, kill U.S. citizens and people across this country. Now, oversight Democrats have tracked, reviewed, and vetted over 470 incidents on our immigration enforcement dashboard, and 186 of them include problematic uses of force by agents. Now, these are not isolated mistakes, they are a clear pattern. And we know that's a tip of the iceberg.
(02:50)
We're seeing ICE, CBP, other parts of DHS, all across our country terrorize communities. We've seen warrantless searches of homes and vehicles. We've seen folks arrested, detained, with no criminal history. We've seen folks be sent to detention centers only to be released with no explanation as to why. Now, American citizens and innocent people have been brutalized and our witnesses today will testify to that. And to be clear, we've seen people dragged from cars, beaten, gas, attacked with crowd control weapons, blinded, like back in my home State of California, left with broken ribs, run off the road, beaten, injured, disfigured, and shot. Officers have been ordered to enter homes without warrants in violation of the Constitution. And we've also seen the federal government labeling American citizens as domestic terrorists, calling people "assassins" and falsely claiming they intended to kill law enforcement, which we know of course has been untrue. We're seeing the results of policies set by powerful people of no respect for the Constitution, no respect for the law, no respect for basic humility. And these folks here, which we know well, Donald Trump, JD Vance, Kristi Noem, Stephen Miller, of course, Tom Homan and Greg Bovino. These people, every single one of them, has to be held accountable for the crimes, for the terror, and for the murders that are happening to our own people in this country. We're taking action today because the stakes could not be higher. Now, this morning, oversight Democrats released our initial investigation into the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Now, Alex, of course, was a VA nurse who was peacefully exercising his First and Second Amendment constitutional rights before he was pepper sprayed, tackled, disarmed, and then shot repeatedly in the back. Now, Renee Good was a mom who told an officer, which we all have seen on video, "I'm not mad at you." She said, "I'm not mad at you," before she was shot dead. We mourn both of these two Americans today, and we find that these shootings cannot be justified. We also know they were part of a broader pattern of escalating unlawful violence by the Trump administration and DHS to intimidate dissent. Now, this administration then lied about the events and is now obstructing independent investigations to cover up misconduct and deny accountability to the victims and to the public. Our hearing today will build on evidence, not just that we put out in our reports and our investigation, but the incredible work being done by the Senate, its various committees. And again, I want to especially want to thank Senator Blumenthal for his leadership of holding these hearings. The stories that we're going to hear today are hard to tell and they're hard to hear. So I want to thank again our witnesses for the courage and the strength that it takes to be here today.
(06:07)
This is a step towards accountability, and we know that the courage, that the strength that you all have that are bringing is in light of what you're hearing from the administration. And I think it's important for the public to recognize that this administration has lied, has defamed, and has smeared people that have been peacefully protesting. They've weaponized the Department of Justice to silence protestors, observers, and of course, journalists. But I also remind folks that Donald Trump won't be president forever. Kristi Noem won't be the secretary forever. And when you serve this country in an elected office or in uniform, you swear an oath to the constitution. You pledge to work for all Americans. You don't get a license to kill and there's no absolute immunity. We're going to stand up for the rights of our communities, and we believe strongly that we need to hear the stories of those that are in front of us today.
(07:08)
I want to thank our witnesses for the courage and I want to yield back to our host today and really the person that's been organizing and leading all of these hearings, Senator Blumenthal.
Richard Blumenthal (07:19):
Thank you so much, Representative Garcia. Working with you has been a great experience in partnership, and I am really gratified that we're going to continue our work, continue our investigation, continue our efforts to hold DHS accountable. This hearing is extraordinary and unprecedented, but so is the inhumanity and brutality that we've seen from a government agency. With us today are brave Americans who have come forward to speak truth to power. That phrase is overused, but truly it applies today. With us in spirit are also Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretti in spirit. They should be here in person, but they were murdered. They were murdered by their own government. They were killed in cold blood. And I can only imagine how painful it must be for you to see that image of your sister, which speaks to your courage, your guts, your grit and determination to be here.
(08:42)
And you have won the admiration and gratitude of all of the colleagues here and many others and Americans throughout the country. The witnesses here bear the scars of government lawlessness and DHS brutality, mental scars, as well as physical scars. They're here as the face and voice of Alex and Renee and of thousands of others who span the country and who have experienced this in humanity. And let's be very clear, these stories are not just about Minneapolis. People hear from all over the country. These stories span the country. The nation is Minneapolis. We are all Minneapolis, and these stories are a call to action. I was in this room just a few hours ago at a hearing of the Armed Services Committee. I sat on this dias as we heard from witnesses about our national nuclear security in the face of threats from enemies and adversaries abroad who have nuclear weapon.
(10:06)
We are here about a matter of national security that is equally important to the one that we heard about this morning. The violence unleashed by the Trump administration against our fellow citizen can touch any American at any time, any one of you who are listening by livestream or C-SPAN, or who are hearing and seeing this hearing. Whether you're going to a church clothing drive, to make a donation on your way to a doctor's appointment, or even heading home from dropping your six-year-old son off at school. Real stories we will hear today. These stories and far too many others demand that every one of us stand up against the injustices and demand accountability. The directives underlying this lawlessness come from the top. Those pictures of the leaders that Representative Garcia showed you are ultimately the culprits here. They bear responsibility. They are the ones who issued the quotas for arrests and detention that are driving the brutality.
(11:31)
They are the ones who have issued a policy directive kept secret until a whistleblower came to me, showing that the acting director of ICE is authorizing agents to break down your door, ransack your home, terrify your children, detain and arrest you. As this happened countless times across the country, the top ranks of DHS are more than complicit. They are the driving force behind this brutality and they should be held accountable. They've not only directed those actions, but also the lies and misinformation that have been presented to courts in violation of the duties lawyers have to present only the truth to courts, and they have engaged in character assassination against today's witnesses as well as countless others, including Alex and Renee.
(12:34)
We are at a defining moment. It's a moral moment. We are determined to continue to investigate and uncover wrongdoing, but will also seek action for accountability and justice. My feeling is that we should demand a complete overhaul, a rebuilding of DHS and the agencies that fall here. These reforms should include body cameras and identification on every officer, mask off at all times, rigorous use of force, training, and policies, independent investigations into acts of violence, and ongoing monitoring of these agents. A police force that has these kinds of systematic failings would be supervised by a monitor. And we've seen it in Connecticut, as my colleagues have seen it in their states around the country. And most important for me, rights of citizens to seek redress, rights of anyone to have recourse in the courts to make sure that agents violating the rights are held accountable. If you go to your local police chief and ask, "What are the norms?" Every one of the demands that I've listed here is going to be recounted to you, including a right of action on the part of people to seek accountability.
(14:18)
It can be done with four words, four words. In the current United States Code, 1983, all we need to do is add when we say every person under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage of the United States, of the United States or any other state or territory, that basic responsibility ought to be the right of every citizen because we know that rights without remedies are empty promises. If a local cop can be sued, so should an ICE agent or a CPB official. And so should Greg Bovino and Kristi Noem and Todd Lyons and Steve Miller, and yes, Donald Trump. There is a real need for a full accounting of what these agencies have done. Someday, we should have a truth and justice commission to investigate the systematic failings, but for right now, I can promise that I will not support another dime for the Department of Homeland Security unless there is this fundamental far-reaching reform and restraint in effect a rebuilding of the agency.
(16:07)
So Renee and Alex are not with us, but the silencing of their voices should strengthen our resolve to force change, to stand up for what's right, to show our neighbors, our communities, and the world that we won't let totalitarian tyranny prevail and fear crumble this great nation. One day, I think we will look back and hold ourselves accountable, whether we stood up and took stands. Luke Granger and Brett Granger are showing that courage and strength today, and they're here to share some words about their sister. Luke and Brent, on behalf of all of us, I want to express again, our gratitude and we offer our condolences. Words are inadequate, but just know from our hearts, we are with you in spirit for this devastating loss and we thank you for being here today and I recognize you now for your remarks.
Luke Ganger (17:27):
Thank you, Ranking Member Blumenthal and Ranking Member Garcia and distinguished members of Congress. My name is Luke Ganger, and I'm here with my brother, Brent. Renee Good is our sister. We're here on behalf of Nay's big family and those who loved her. We're here to ask for your help. I was talking to my four-year-old last week when she noticed I was not doing well. I had to come here today and talk to some important people. She knows that her aunt died and that somebody caused it to happen. She told me that there are no bad people and that everyone makes mistakes. She has Nay's spirit. The deep distress our family feels because of Nay's loss is in such a violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change.
(19:03)
In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation, thinking that perhaps Nay's death would bring about change in our country, and it has not. The completely surreal scenes taking place on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond explanation. This is not just a bad day or a rough week or isolated incidents. These encounters with federal agents are changing the community and changing many lives, including ours forever. And I still don't know how to explain to my four-year-old what these agents are doing when we pass by. Our family is deeply grateful for the outpouring of love and support from the community in Minneapolis and from people across the country and around the world. The prayers and words of support have truly brought us comfort and it is meaningful that these sentiments have come from people of all colors, faiths, and ideals. That is a perfect reflection of Renee who carried peace, patience, and love for others wherever she went. Our family is a very American blend. We vote differently, and we rarely completely agree on the finer details of what it means to be a citizen of this country.
(20:59)
We attend various churches and some not at all. And despite those differences, we have always treated each other with love and respect, and we've gotten even closer during this very divided time in our country. And we hope that our family can be even a small example to others, not to let political ideals divide us to be good like Renee. But the most important thing we can do today is to help this panel and our country understand who Nay is and what a beautiful American we have lost. A sister, a daughter, mother, a partner, and a friend.
Brent Ganger (22:01):
Good afternoon. My name is Brent Ganger, and I'd like to share some thoughts from the eulogy that I gave on my sister's behalf this past Saturday. When I think of Renee, I think of dandelions and sunlight. Dandelions don't ask permission to grow, they push through cracks in the sidewalk, through hard soil, through places where you don't expect beauty, and suddenly there they are, bright, alive. Unapologetically hopeful, that was Renee, and sunlight, warm, steady, life giving, because when she walked in a room, things felt lighter, even on cloudy days. Renee had a way of showing up in the world that made you believe things were going to be okay, not because she ignored the hardship, but because she chose optimism anyway. She chose to look for what was good, what was possible, and what was worth loving.
(23:13)
Naynay loved fiercely, openly, and without hesitation. As a mother, Renee poured herself into love, the kind of love that shows up every day, that sacrifices quietly, that cheers loudly, that believes deeply. Her children were and are her heart, walking around outside her body, and she made sure they felt safe, valued, and endlessly loved. As a sister, she was constant, someone you could lean on, laugh with, or just sit in silence beside. She had a way of making you feel understood even when you didn't have the words yet. She didn't just listen. She saw you. She believed in second chances. She believed tomorrow could be better than today. She believed that kindness mattered, and she lived that belief. Even when things were hard, Nay looked for the light, and if she couldn't find it, she became the light for somebody else. It was the excessively ordinary things that made Nay so beautiful.
(24:48)
There are billions of people who now know her name, and it would be so easy to fall into the false belief the great heroic things are required to overcome difficult things in the world. But as Tolkien wrote, " It is the small, everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay, small acts of kindness and love." That's why the image of dandelions feels so right. People try to pull them up, overlook them, dismiss them, but they keep coming back stronger, brighter, spreading seeds of hope everywhere they land. Renee planted those seeds in all of us and her children, in her family, in friends, coworkers, and people who maybe didn't even realize they needed her light at the time. And sunlight, sunlight doesn't ask for recognition, it just gives. It warms, it nurtures, it helps things grow. Renee did that for us. She helped us grow.
(26:09)
She helped us believe in ourselves. She helped us see the good, even when life felt heavy. Renee is not gone from us. She's in the light that finds us on hard days. She's in the resilience we didn't know we had until we needed it. She's in the laughter, the memories, the love that continues to grow, like dandelions, like sunlight, and like Renee. Thank you.
Richard Blumenthal (26:41):
Thank you. Thank you, Brent and Luke, for that really powerful appeal to the nation's conscience. And I hope to our colleagues on both sides of the aisle, and I hope that all of our colleagues will join in seeking the action that you just described that is so important, not just as a tribute to your sister, but as a way to prevent the kind of lawless brutality that caused her death, literally murder. So thank you for being here today. We are going to now have the second panel come forward and excuse the first. We're ready to begin the second panel. I want to welcome all five of you and reiterate our thanks to every one of you for being here. Everything that I said about Brent and Luke could apply to every one of you. Your courage and your strength enable us to move forward, to seek action, to appeal to the conscience of our country.
(29:18)
We're fortunate to be joined today by Antonio Romanucci. Mr. Romanucci is an attorney representing the family of Renee Nicole Good. He has extensive experience representing victims of policy violence, including the family of George Floyd. Marimar Martinez is an American citizen, resident of Chicago. She is here to share her experience of being shot five times by customs and border protection agents in Chicago this past October. Aliya Rahman is an American citizen and resident of Minneapolis. She is here to share her story of being violently stopped and detained by immigration agents while on her way to a doctor's appointment just three weeks ago. Martin Daniel Rascon, known as Daniel, I believe. He is an American citizen and resident of San Bernardino, California. Mr. Rascon is here to share his story of being fired at, shot at by an immigration agent while traveling in a vehicle with family members last year. Finally, on our panel, Seth Stoughton. He is a former police officer and professor at the University of South Carolina School of Law, where he is faculty director of excellence in Policing and Public Safety. He is here to share his expertise about the proper methods of policing, including when and where it is appropriate for police to use force. Mr. Romanucci, we'll begin with your testimony.
Antonio Romanucci (31:22):
Ranking Member Blumenthal, Ranking Member Garcia, and distinguished members of Congress. My name is Antonio Romanucci and I'm a civil rights and tort litigation attorney with the deep honor of representing the Renee Good family for her tragic shooting death by federal agents in Minneapolis. I have handled excessive force cases across the country for decades. My colleagues and I are deeply distressed at these invasions onto a fellow American's civil rights by our own government that have gone well beyond the initial scope of removing criminals.
Antonio Romanucci (32:01):
... The occupation by ICE and CBP in our cities is way beyond their mission, leading to unnecessary provocation that causes needless harm and death. These operations in multiple states have routinely and consistently included violations of the Constitution. We call for an immediate end of false narratives by federal officials about the victims of excessive force. The character assassinations and conclusions, before an investigation has been started, let alone completed, must stop. In America, our leaders must be held to a standard of truth and responsible speech.
(32:47)
There is no such thing as absolute immunity, and that perceptions leads to agents who behave with absolute impunity, leading to exaggerated and violent provoked encounters with people. This is an unprecedented and deeply unsettling time, and the roadmap to navigating this national crisis lies within this august body. My job today will be to share information about the process to hold federal officers accountable for actions we believe are violations of constitutional rights, in the face of other investigative bodies failing to do so.
(33:27)
In Renee Goode's civil case, our team has promised to provide transparency about what happened to her, as we continue our independent investigation in an aggressive way, but also in a moral and ethical manner. We want to be the voice of reason for the country that wants to understand, and deserves the facts. For example, we wrote and shared a letter to relevant federal agencies, asking for responsible handling and preservation of evidence, such as Renee's vehicle, records of the agent's declared injuries, his cell phone, and any statements he made about the use of force and protestors. At the family's request, we conducted an independent autopsy of Renee's body, so we could better understand her injuries, and her experience in those final moments. And we released some of those high level results, again, to provide transparency and truth to Americans.
(34:25)
And lastly, we are providing information to the public on reasonable policing policies and practices, so people can view the video of Renee's death through that lens. The lens is a wide-angle one where the totality of circumstances must be viewed and not just one frame. The United States legal system allows for individuals to pursue civil justice with a suit against the city, county, or state for the conduct of its officers and against the officers individually. These types of legal claims are made under what is called 42 US Code Section 1983. This was part of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1871, and this is essential for accountability when an officer behaves unconstitutionally. Keep in mind that this act is 155 years old and desperately needs an amendment. However, similar legal action against federal law enforcement officers like ICE or Border Patrol is not currently allowed under Section 1983.
(35:32)
There is a current possible path of civil recovery through the Federal Tort Claims Act, or FTCA, but this is challenging. It requires, first, the filing of a claim with the government agency that has harmed you, and then waiting up to six months for a reply.
(35:50)
Our current paradox is that America should not require the permission of the federal government to sue the federal government for cases like Renee Goode or Alex Pretti. If the government must give you permission to seek accountability for violation of constitutional rights, then your rights are just words on paper. There is a legislative remedy to this paradox. At the state level, Minnesota and other states can pass bills making it a state law to violate constitutional rights. In Illinois, we did this by signing House Bill 1312. Congress can remove this roadblock to federal accountability by amending Section 1983 and adding four words, as you, Senator Blumenthal pointed out, so federal officers can be sued civilly if their conduct merits it. The current language spells out that state, county, and municipal law enforcement can be sued and Congress would only need to add the words, or the United States, to the list of governments whose officers could be brought to civil justice. It's that simple. I'm urging you to consider this amendment and fix a 155-year-old problem.
(37:05)
The current path to hold federal officers accountable is narrow and an uphill climb, and that will not deter us in the Renee Goode case. Please, let's not repeat a very recent moment in history when we said never again, and having Congress miss the opportunity to pass harm-stopping legislation, seeking accountability when the law requires. I thank you. I thank this esteemed panel for your commitment to the truth, American values, and of course, our Constitution.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Thank you, Ms. Martinez.
Miramar Martinez (37:47):
Thank you for having me here. Before I begin, I would like to take a moment to express my gratitude. Thank you, Chairman, for giving me the opportunity to be here today for taking the time to hear my testimony. I give thanks to God. He has been a constant presence in my life, and the source of my strength. Without Him, I wouldn't be here standing. I am a living testimony of His grace. Sincerely, thank you everyone who has kept me in their thoughts and prayers and who has supported me since day one. From the parents of my school to my neighbors, to my family and friends, strangers near and far, from Mexico to Colombia, thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
(38:35)
[foreign language 00:38:39]. My name is Marimar Martinez. I am a first generation Mexican American, as a survivor of this administration actions, as an advocate for those who do not have a voice, those that are pleading for justice, living in fear, and those who are asking for meaningful change and accountability. I come from a beautiful family full of immigrants. I am proud of my roots. I am born and raised in Chicago, Illinois, where I learned the values of resilience, community, respect, love, and hope. Those lessons have shaped me since childhood, and continue to guide me through my adult life. On October 4, 2025, those values were tested when my life was nearly taken by my own government. This testimony is my attempt to give voice to an experience that we're struggle to hold, but silence cannot justify.
(39:38)
On Saturday, October 4, 2025, I woke up tired but committed to doing the fall cleaning I promised myself I would do that day. After two hours, I had successfully filled an entire bag of good quality clothes and shoes I wanted to take to donate to my local church. After a quick shower and a cup of coffee, I put the bag of clothes in the back of my car and headed towards the church.
(40:06)
As I was getting close to the church, I noticed a SUV that appeared to be similar to the Border Patrol vehicles that had been invading our Hispanic neighborhood. In the previous week, I got a quiet but firm sense that something wasn't right. As I passed the vehicle, I noticed an over-light in the front windshield, no front plates as required in Illinois. An out of-state license plate in the back. I then noticed a uniformed Border Patrol agent in the vehicle.
(40:40)
As a 30-year-old USA citizen with no criminal history, I believed that I had nothing to worry about. But I was concerned for my friends, neighbors, based on the well-publicized incidents involving Border Patrol agents in our community over the past few weeks, arresting anyone with brown skin for no legitimate law enforcement reasons. For the next 15 to 20 minutes, I followed these Border Patrol agents through my neighborhood, honking my horn, shouting out, "La Migra," to warn my neighbors about the presence of these agents who had been terrorizing our community over the past few weeks.
(41:20)
As I did this, my neighbors, standing on the porches and sidewalks, joined in on this spontaneous life alert system and began setting off their car alarms to warn other neighbors. As the Border Patrol vehicle turned on Kedzie Avenue, I continued to beat my horn and warn my community. As we approached the intersection of 39th and Kedzie, my vehicle was two to three feet to the left of the Border Patrol vehicle. He started to swerve into my lane as he was driving. I made eye contact with the driver of the Border Patrol vehicle and watched as he turned the steering wheel once again to his left and sideswipe my vehicle. I immediately froze, slammed on the brakes, and stopped my car. The Border Patrol vehicle stopped just one to two car lengths ahead of me.
(42:20)
It seemed like time stopped. I knew from watching the news coverage of other Border Patrol and conscious in Chicago that I was in danger. I watched the vehicle of agent Border Patrol agent killing Silverio Villegas Gonzalez just three weeks prior. I knew I had to get to safety before I was dragged from my car and likely beaten or killed. I drove forward and went around the Border Patrol agents, who jumped out of his car and pointed his gun at me. I moved to the far left lane, striking the curb on the far left side of Kedzie. The next thing I knew, I felt a burning sensation in my arms, legs, and thought I had been shot by pepper balls, which I also seen these agents fire at people in our community.
(43:08)
As I continued to drive past the Border Patrol agents, I could hear my back passenger window shatter, and I felt bullets continue to pierce my body. As I attempted to drive to a safe location, I began to feel lightheaded. I looked down and I noticed blood gushing out of my arms and legs, and I realized I've been shot multiple times. As I became lightheaded, I became worried I will pass out and endanger other drivers on the road.
(43:40)
I managed to drive a mile from where the incident happened, and I pulled into a parking lot of a mechanic shop and I called 911. I told the 911 operator that Border Patrol agents had just shot me and I needed help. I recall some of the workers from the shop sitting me down in a chair as I was waiting for help, but I was losing this battle. I saw my life flash before me, and slowly began to think this was the end for me. And before losing consciousness, the next thing I remember is the EMT putting me on a stretcher, taking me to the hospital.
(44:21)
At the hospital, I remember seeing multiple agents standing around, watching me be treated for my wounds. My arms, legs, and chest were all wrapped in bandages. I had seven bullet holes in my body. I remember the agents rushing the nurses to finish up so they could take me with them. I still felt dizzy. I was not able to fully process what had happened to me.
(44:46)
After being at the hospital for less than three hours, I was discharged from the hospital into custody of the FBI. As we left the hospital, I was escorted out through the back in a wheelchair. I observed over dozens of Border Patrol agents waiting outside the hospital. One of the agents came out to me with his cell phone and took a photograph of me. It was the same agent who had previously kept coming in and out my room, and I had to repeatedly tell him to leave. I told him I did not consent for him to photograph me, but he did not care. It still haunts me that this agent has my photo on his phone. Was this the agent that shot me? Was this a trophy for him?
(45:40)
I was next taken to the FBI building for further processing. Because they rushed me out of the hospital so quickly, the blood started soaking through the bandages. I heard the agents talking about how the jail will not accept me in this current condition. I begged the agents to take me to a different hospital to give me proper medical care. Seeing me stand in a pool of my own blood, they were concerned about my health.
(46:10)
One of the kind FBI agents brought a bag of additional bandages, and worked quickly to put more dressings over my bloody bandages. The FBI agents agreed to take me to a different hospital where my wounds were treated again, and I received additional medical care before being released back into law enforcement... before being released back to law enforcement custody the following day.
(46:43)
The agents took me from the second hospital to the federal detention center in downtown Chicago. I had never even had a parking ticket before, and now I was sitting in federal detention center, just for being the victim in a minor traffic accident. Things were surreal.
(47:04)
The news in the jail that evening had my story, and was being called a domestic terrorist. They said, I, quote, unquote, "rammed federal agents." I was in shock. If they only knew I was a month away from paying off my truck and I would never intentionally damage my vehicle, much less be crazy enough to hit a law enforcement. On Friday, I was teaching the young children at the Montessori School, and we were singing and dancing and getting ready for spooky season, preparing for activities to do the following week. And on Saturday, my own government was calling me a domestic terrorist, and I was in federal detention centers with the bullet holes all over my body.
(47:56)
I went to court on Monday and I met my attorney, Christopher Parente. He told me the government was trying to have me kept in jail until the trial, because they claimed I was a danger to the community. I told him I had never been in trouble before and that the government claims were all wrong. I looked around the courtroom and I recognized over dozens mom and dads from the Montessori school, along with my boss and most of my family members, who came to support me. I heard my attorney tell the judge that he had received over 50 letters from the moms and dads from the kids, all describing me as caring, loving, empathetic teacher, the exact opposite of a domestic terrorist.
(48:48)
I heard the government describe me as being armed, even though I knew my gun was always inside my snapped-closed holster at the bottom of my purse where I always kept it. The prosecutor told the judge there was no allegation that I have took the gun out my purse, but that did not stop DHS from continue to say I was armed. During this incident, my attorney explained to the judge that I have a valid concealed carry license, and that as a young woman living in Chicago, I carry a gun to protect me from danger. Thankfully, the judge quickly denied the government's detention request and released me on bond that day.
(49:34)
Over the next six weeks, everything was surreal. I continued to work and teach my children, but knowing that I was under federal indictment and facing felony charges, and potentially years in federal prison over a minor car accident where the other driver was at fault and attempted to kill me, was terrifying. There was times where I did not believe this was all real and then I would touch my bullet wounds and knew it was certainly real. Imagine waking up every morning reliving this trauma.
(50:09)
I would go to work each day to take care of my children. I knew my attorney was hard at work and exposing the lies of ICE. I knew the truth of what happened. The agent swerved into me. The agent shot me as I drove away from him. My attorney and his investigators found videos evidence, demonstrating the agents were lying, and I knew that no press release or tweet will ever trump the power of the truth.
(50:38)
Two weeks before the government dismissed all the charges in my case, I sat in federal court and watched from 20 feet away as the Border Patrol agent who attempted to kill me testified at a hearing. Agent Charles Exum. Charles Exum, my attempted executioner was Charles Exum. I hope the government does not consider my use of his name here to be considered doxing, but I think it is important now that the truth is out of this case is exposed that people know his name, Charles Exum. Exum was in the courtroom testifying, attempting to weave a coherent story. Explaining why he took his vehicle, that I allegedly rammed, out of the secure FBI evidence garage and drove it back to Maine, where the Border Patrol onsite mechanic was ordered to buff out the damages of the vehicle. This was all done prior to me or my attorney having the ability to examine the vehicle. Because he did this, no expert witness will ever be able to prove that it was Exum who swerved into my vehicle.
(51:53)
Watching Charles Exum testify made me sick to my stomach. I grew up revering law enforcement. Prior to this incident, I had great respect for local and federal law enforcement. I knew every day they put their lives on the lines to keep me safe, to keep the kids at my school safe, and I thought to keep everyone in our community safe. But seeing what ICE was doing in our community at this time changed my view of law enforcement.
(52:21)
This administration has misled the American people by claiming it will focus on the, quote, unquote, "worst of the worst," while their actions show otherwise. Evidence from these operations, including statements made under oath, reveals a pattern of misleading the public. The government told the people they were targeting the worst of the worst, but their actions demonstrated otherwise. They are not targeting the worst of the worst, they are targeting individuals who fit a certain profile, who simply have a certain accent, a non-white-skin color, just like me. This raises serious concerns about fairness, discrimination, and abuse of authority. The lack of accountability for these actions is deeply troubling. We the people are tired of this misconduct and demand transparency and accountability. Seeing Charles Exum sit in federal courtroom and lie about what happened that day completely eroded all my trust in law enforcement. I know just because Exum is not telling the truth that I cannot hold that against all other law enforcements. But to be honest, I don't know if I will ever view law enforcement the same way again.
(53:41)
As my attorney showed the court the disgusting text messages Exum sent to his fellow Border Patrol buddies, literally bragging about how many times he shot me, I got sick to my stomach. Seeing how a federal law enforcement officer will talk this way about shooting me, a woman who he swerve into, was both eye-opening and heartbreaking.
(54:10)
Thankfully, I survived Exum's attempted murder of me and was able to shine a light on his lies. But what about all the others who either did not survive or were not fortunate enough to have videos proving the agent's lies? I know deep down this was God's purpose in having me survive Exum's five bullets. It was for this moment to happen so that the world could see these text messages, which were a window into the soul of the USA Border Patrol at this critical time in our country history.
(54:48)
14 days after Exum was confronted with his own disgusting text messages, my attorney called me with the wonderful news that the government was dismissing all my charges against me. We showed up in court later that day, and some of the same parents from the Montessori School who came to support me at my arraignment were there again, this time with tears in their eyes as they heard Judge Alexakis tell me I was free to go and the charges were dismissed with prejudice.
(55:21)
I have learned that surviving the physical wound was only the beginning of this long and painful journey. The real battle started after. In the weeks that followed, I thought I will feel great, but I still struggle. I struggle with the memories of the day. The initial swerving into me by Agent Exum. The shots ringing out, and the burning sensation as the bullets ripped through my skin and body. The images of the puddles of blood dripping from my dressings, listening to FBI agents arguing about whether the jail will accept me in this condition. Later, in federal prison, staring out through a small window, looking out into Clark Street.
(56:11)
I struggle every day with the physical pain and the suffering. I cannot close my hand yet to hold the pan. I try to play with the children at my school and I am in a significant pain, as I attempt to do things I was easily able to do before October 4. I attend weekly physical therapy sessions to work on these issues, and hope one day I can move in the same way I was able to move prior to October 4.
(56:42)
I know that what happened to me in the matter of seconds on October 4, will unfortunately be with me for a lifetime. The physical scars will always be there in the mornings and evenings when I get dressed and I stare at my body, now permanently disfigured by the five lead bullets Exum fire into me. They will be there this summer when I head to the beach with my dogs and family. They will be there when I get down on the floor with my students and work with them on their motor skills. And perhaps even worse, the mental scars will always be there as a reminder of the time my own government attempted to execute me, and when they fail, they choose to vilify me. I am Renee Goode. I am Alex Pretti. I am Silverio Villegas Gonzalez. I am Keith Porter. They should all be here today. I know each of them would trade my bullet wounds, a lifetime of mental distress, in a heartbeat, to be able to be back with their loved ones this afternoon. And we must also remember the countless other souls who lost their lives at the hands of these entrusted with authority. I know that by being a survivor, it is my duty to be here today to let you elected officials know what is happening on the streets of our country, because silence is no longer an option. This needs to stop now. Why do we continue to wait for more public executions when we have already seen the evidence on our TVs and computer screens? We have heard the testimonies. We have watched the pain unfold in real times. How many more lives must be lost before meaningful action is taken?
(58:36)
The United States is and will always be a country of immigrants, built by immigrants. We are a country of love and tolerance. This is the land of the free, the land of the opportunity, and the great nation that people around the world aspire to call home. And prior to this recent war on immigrants, we were a country where law enforcement acted lawfully and appropriately with respect of all human life.
(59:04)
I am happy to see people of different nationalities speak up. This is the spirit of love, unity, and courage, that's what makes America great. I am asking you today, pleading with you, to please help bring back the America I grew up loving and idolizing. An America, that values human dignity, protects life, and lives up to the ideals our funding fathers proudly proclaim. If there's no justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
Thank you, Ms. Martinez, Ms. Rahman. And I'm going to suggest to the witnesses that we stay to five minutes because we're running a little bit behind. Thank you.
Aliya Rahman (59:55):
Thank you, members, for taking time to be here today, and thank you staff for making this happen. My name is Aliya Rahman, and I am a resident of South Minneapolis. I'm a Bangladeshi American, born in Northern Wisconsin, and I'm a disabled person with autism and a traumatic brain injury.
(01:00:21)
Not all autistic brains do this, but mine fixates on sounds, numbers, and patterns. And while what the world saw happen to me exactly three weeks ago today on video, was a terrible violation, it is still nothing compared to the horrific practices I saw inside the Whipple Center.
(01:00:46)
So I am here today with a duty to the people who have not had the privilege of coming home, and I offer this data because these practices must end now. On January 13th, on the way to my 39th appointment at Hennepin County's Traumatic Brain Injury Center, I encountered a traffic jam caused by ICE vehicles and no signs indicating how to get around it. I had not wanted to pull into a blocked, chaotic intersection, but verbally agreed to do so, and rolled down my window after an agent yelled, "Move. I will break your effing window." His first instruction. Agents on all sides of my vehicle yelled conflicting threats and instructions that I could not process while watching for pedestrians. Then the glass of the passenger side window flew across my face. I yelled, "I'm disabled," at the hands grabbing at me, and an agent said, "Too late." I felt immersed in a pattern, and I thought of Jenoah Donald, an autistic black man killed by police during a traffic stop in 2021. I remembered Mr. Silverio Gonzalez, who was killed by ICE in his vehicle last year. An agent pulled a large combat knife in front of my face, which I thought was for cutting me, and later learned was used to cut off my seatbelt.
(01:02:28)
Shooting pain went through my head, neck, and wrists when I hit the ground face first and people leaned on my back. I felt the pattern, and I thought of Mr. George Floyd, who was killed four blocks away. I was carried face down through the street by my cuffed arms and legs, while yelling that I had a brain injury and was disabled. I now cannot lift my arms normally. I was never asked for ID, never told I was under arrest, never read my rights, and never charged with a crime.
(01:03:18)
Approaching the Whipple Center, I saw black and brown bodies shackled together, chained together, being marched by yelling agents outdoors. I continue to hear the word bodies, because that is how agents referred to us, "We're bringing in a body. They're bringing in bodies, seven, eight at a time, where do I put them? We can't use that room, there's already a body in there." You have no reason to believe you will make it out alive if you are already being called a body.
Aliya Rahman (01:04:02):
Agents repeatedly had to stop and ask how to do tasks. I received no medical screening, phone call, or access to a lawyer. I was denied a communication navigator when my speech began to slur. Agents laughed as I tried to immobilize my own neck. I asked for my cane and was told no, pulled up my arms and prodded forward and leg irons by agents laughing and saying, "Walk, you can do it. Walk." Agents did not know if the facility had a wheelchair. When I was finally placed in one to be taken to interrogation, an agent taunted, "You are driving, right? So your legs do work."
(01:04:50)
I pleaded for emergency medical care for over an hour after my vision had become blurry. My heart rate went through the roof and the pain in my neck and head became unbearable. It was denied. When I became unable to speak, my cellmate pleaded for me. The last sounds I remember before I blacked out on the cell floor were my cellmate banging on the door, pleading for a medic and a voice outside saying, "We don't want to step on ICE's toes." When I opened my eyes at Hennepin County's emergency room, I learned I was brought there to be treated for assault. The impacts of DHS detention on my physical, mental, and financial wellbeing and safety have been very severe, but I do not deserve more humane treatment than anyone else, US citizen or not. And I am here today with a strong spirit and a duty to the many people who haven't had the privilege to tell their stories or see their loved ones come home. I am extremely distressed by the pattern that violence from law enforcement has been happening to Black and Indigenous communities for centuries and to DHS survivors for over 20 years. We call ourselves a civilized nation, but we lack rules and accountability around what a person claiming to be law enforcement is permitted to do to another human being. And I'm not afraid to keep working on this problem even after ICE is gone. Thank you for your time.
Richard Blumenthal (01:06:35):
Thank you, Ms. Raman. Mr. Rascon.
Daniel Rascon (01:06:41):
Hello, good afternoon. And thank you for allowing our story to be heard. I am Daniel Rascon, a 23-year-old US citizen from SoCal. I'm the eldest of three brothers and father to a nearly three week old baby girl. I operate a forklift for work and currently have my CDLA license and dental assisting certification. I'm not celebrity, but I am loved by many in my community and there are many that I love and I'm thankful for. The morning of August 16th, 2025 would quickly become unforgettable, especially because my future father-in-law, Francisco Longoria, wanted me to run an errand with him and his son, Jonathan. When all I really wanted to do was just sleep in. We took Jonathan's truck with him sitting in the passenger seat, Francisco driving and me sitting behind Francisco when we were just two minutes away from home.
(01:07:42)
At 8:49 AM, two unmarked trucks suddenly boxed in our car. I had been looking down at my phone, but when our car abruptly stopped, I looked up thinking we must be at a red light or in a traffic jam. But to my surprise, I was instead met with four men in face masks, sunglasses and baseball caps and guns drawn, pointing straight at us, walking towards our car. These four men then tried forcing their way into our car by pulling on the handles, pounding on the windows and yelling at us to roll down the windows, all while failing to answer our repeated requests for their identification and what they wanted. I did not know who these men were. They were refusing to identify themselves and the only thing I could control was capturing this event by recording it on my cellphone. There were two men on either side of the car and they were not wearing any uniform. I could not tell who these men surrounding our car with guns were. We again asked them to show identification and why they were approaching us with so much aggression.
(01:08:49)
Only seconds after they started pounding on the windows, one of the men broke its driver's side window, punched Francisco in the face and began reaching into the car. At the same time, a man on the other side of the car broke the passenger window where Jonathan was sitting and began reaching into the vehicle. They shattered the windows and in that moment, the whole world felt like it was the size of the inside of our pickup and we were sitting in harm's way with nothing to do but recorded the horrifying experience. Terrified for our lives, Francisco bravely drove straight through the only open pathway down the street, hoping to be driving towards safety, we were instead met with gunfire. After we had passed the men, one of the four men attempted to murder us after we passed by as he fired and made contact with the passenger side of our car multiple times. I will never forget the fear and having to quickly duck my head as the shots were fired at the car. Any one of those bullets could have killed me or two people that I love. We narrowly escaped as pieces of glass fell on our heads as we drove down the bumpy road. Three minutes changed our lives forever. The incident began at 8:49 AM and we were home by 8:52 AM. We left home that morning with the truck in good condition, but we returned home with the... Excuse me. Thank you. I'm sorry. Hold on. Where was I? Sorry. I lost myself here. Yes. We were home by 8:52 AM. Left that morning with the truck in good condition, but we returned home with a truck that had two shattered windows and bullet holes. We then called 911 to report that four men who were hiding their identity assaulted and shot at us. By 9:00 AM, a police helicopter was flying over our property. Next thing we know, local officers showed up at our home, handcuffed Francisco, put him in the officer's car and began individually questioning us.
(01:11:07)
The officers then allowed the same four men who had just attacked us to come to our home. Those four men were asked to identify who they were looking for, but they had zero idea as to who they were even targeting. Pointing to me as the driver, these masked men had just shot at us and they were now in our home treating us as the people who had done something wrong. The man who shot at us went to my future brother-in-law, asked him questions about the video we took of their attack and lied saying those were not shots. When the officers left our home almost three hours later, we were told that the FBI would continue the investigation. However, almost immediately after the officers left our home, two men walked up to our gate and told us to let them in. We could immediately tell this was not the FBI, but instead ICE and HSI agents.
(01:11:56)
The HSI agent then said, "Is he here?" But they never clarified who he was. I said, "We were told the FBI would be coming and we would be waiting for them to arrive." The HSI agent looked at me and said, "For all intents and purposes, we are the FBI." As time passed, more and more ICE and HSI agents arrived in unmarked vehicles with no license plates. They had gear on and walked around our home with submachine guns, assault rifles, and holstered pistols, making sure to keep their hands on their weapons for fast drawing. The agents blocked every exit out of our home and shut the entire block of our neighborhood. More than 20 HSI, ICE agents and more than 30 police officers were brandishing weapons, ranging from paintball guns to a man's drone flying and mapping out the layout of our home. Our home that used to be our safe place now being used as a weapon against us to trap us and take advantage of our surroundings.
(01:12:56)
Once the agents finished asking us questions and watching our recordings of the terrifying event, they left, but we no longer felt safe. We didn't feel like we could leave our home or operate normally in the world. How do you move on from knowing someone tried to kill you and people you love for no reason? Then just two weeks later on August 28th, 2025, I was sleeping on the couch, when I was woken up at 4:00 AM by horrified family members telling me that men were entering our property through our gate and surrounding our entire home. These men had weapons, were wearing night vision goggles and utilizing the bright green laser beam from their assault rifles. An armored truck was in front of our house and one of the men used a megaphone to announce we needed to come outside of our home with our hands up.
(01:13:47)
Our hearts were racing and we tried getting everyone in the house awake since it was the middle of the night. Again, we were placed in a position of pure terror and did not know what to do. We called our lawyers because we did not understand what was happening. But then the men breached our front doors by breaking the locks and yelling that we needed to come out of the house with our hands up. The agents pointed the bright lasers attached to their rifles at each of us inside the home. They even pointed their weapon at my fiance who was pregnant at the time. We kept telling them she was pregnant and we would comply. I was surrounded and trapped in a room full of the ones I love and fearing for every single one of our lives. We kept asking for a warrant and eventually they showed one and we listened to their commands.
(01:14:34)
Francisco was in his sleeping attire and we begged them to allow us to give him a shirt and socks since it was cold outside, and we did not know where they were taking him or what they would do to him. We then watched as they took him away, breaking our hearts. Eventually, Francisco went in front of a federal judge who validated that the incident was scary to watch from the recording inside our vehicle. Despite the lies and misinformation given by the agents, the judge believed our truth and eventually the federal charges were dismissed. However, Francisco was taken to immigration custody, where he was held for months where he had to endure horrible conditions. Months later, Francisco was released on bond and able to witness the birth of his first grandchild, my daughter. Yet our fight for justice is not over, we will carry this incident with us forever. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal and Senator Garcia.
Richard Blumenthal (01:15:38):
Thank you very much, Mr. Rascon. Mr. Stoughton.
Seth Stoughton (01:15:44):
Thank you. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal and Representative Garcia, members and staff. My name is Seth Stoughton. I'm a law professor at the University of South Carolina, Faculty Director of the Excellence in Police and Public Safety Program there. My comments today on my own do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer. I've spent the last 13 years studying policing, I'm also a former police officer. This administration's approach to immigration enforcement falls far short of professional norms. This is not policing, this is not normal, and this is neither professionally, nor democratically acceptable. I want to be clear that my comments are not about federal immigration policy. Reasonable people can disagree on policy and yet still agree with something more fundamental that any enforcement must be performed professionally, legally, and safely. That is not what we see right now.
(01:16:49)
Instead, we see a lack of inter-agency, collaboration, or even basic communication, reducing both efficiency and public trust. We see poor tactics that put community members and federal agents themselves in unnecessary danger, and we see profound failures of leadership after critical incidents that never should have happened. With regard to inter-agency collaboration, federal law enforcement has partnered with state and local agencies for generations. Highly targeted police efforts have long been known to be the most effective approach to enforcement, but they depend heavily on local knowledge, relationships, and expertise that federal agents lack. Today, we see federal immigration authorities simply ignoring established channels of communication, demanding state and local agencies blindly comply with federal priorities and contravention of basic tenants of federalism. We see federal immigration authorities sending in agents who appear to have no connection with, insight into, or even basic concern for the communities they are in. Having deprived themselves of a scalpel, federal officials have fallen back on the hammer using dragnet style enforcement tactics that are demonstrably over broad.
(01:18:07)
According to government data, more than half of ICE detainees have no criminal record, and only a very small percentage have been convicted of any violent crimes. We see similar departures from established professional norms when it comes to what immigration officials are doing in the field. Professional policing depends on clear identification, including uniforms, badges, and in most cases, visible faces. Thank you. That reduces the risk of tragic misidentification, both blue-on-blue shootings and defensive violence by confused citizens. By contrast, recent federal operations have involved officers in plain clothes and masks, sometimes refusing to identify themselves even when asked, leading to dangerous confusion. Among other things, local officers have responded to kidnapping and shooting in progress calls. In one incident, a local officer drew his weapon on a motorist that he saw pointing a gun at someone else, only to later learn that that motorist was an ICE agent.
(01:19:09)
Professional policing also depends on sound tactics to keep officers and community members safe. This includes, among other things, attempting to deescalate passively non-compliant subjects, such as those who failed to exit their vehicles when initially commanded to do so. But we see federal agents rushing vehicles, prying on door handles, and breaking windows within seconds of initiating an encounter. This is substantially more likely to scare a non-compliant subject into actively attempting to escape a potential assault. Good tactics include preemptively avoiding the risk of being struck by a vehicle by not stepping in front of vehicles, but we see federal agents taking and maintaining positions in front of vehicles. Good tactics include not shooting at moving vehicles. A practice professional policing has constrained for decades, both because it is unlikely to actually stop the vehicle from moving and it can create an unguided missile. There have been at least 10 instances of federal immigration officials doing exactly that in the past few months.
(01:20:18)
We've also seen uses of force that appear on their face to be deeply problematic or simply outright excessive. An agent in Cicero, Illinois, deploying pepper spray into the window of a moving vehicle with a toddler inside. An agent in Chicago, who from a position on a nearby roof, shot a minister who was standing on the sidewalk below in the head with pepper balls. And agents in Minneapolis, New York, Los Angeles, and elsewhere, shoving people to the ground, including some people who appear to have no idea that they are even being approached by agents, to say nothing of the stories you've already heard from other witnesses today.
(01:20:56)
When the actions of a law enforcement officer results in a loss of life, as we've seen most recently with the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti, professional policing should follow a disciplined protocol. Conduct a thorough investigation while sharing what is known, identifying what is unknown and avoiding speculation. Competent leaders know that premature narratives can contaminate investigations and corrode trust. But we've seen senior officials issue definitive exonerating conclusions within hours of an incident, far sooner than would be possible with any careful inquiry. We've also seen public claims about absolute immunity that are legally incorrect. These statements signal that any oversight is purely performative, that accountability and outcomes are preordained.
(01:21:49)
More troublingly, we've seen traditional accountability mechanisms sidelined in ways that repeatedly prompted resignations by experienced attorneys and investigating agents. This is an extraordinary warning sign that critical safeguards are being bypassed or weakened. We are in the terrifying position of seeing federal agencies unwilling or unable to conduct the kind of thorough, meticulous investigations that these incidents demand, or even denying that any investigation is necessary when we can plainly see that it is. Abandoning these longstanding principles, threatening state and local officials, sidelining highly experienced and deeply dedicated public servants, precluding accountability by actively inhibiting any meaningful review, these are not normal decisions. History suggests that these are the hallmarks of authoritarianism. These deviations from longstanding professional norms should be deeply concerned.
(01:22:53)
Equally, concerning is the effect that this administration's approach will have in the future as thousands of ICE agents who have recently been hired or who are going to continue to be hired will eventually change jobs, moving into other aspects of federal law enforcement or taking jobs with state and local agencies. What we're seeing right now is not normal, but if it is not addressed, it will become normal. And that will send professional policing back decades, and the cost will be in lives. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your questions.
Richard Blumenthal (01:23:29):
Thank you, Professor Seth Stoughton. I'm going to turn to Representative Garcia, he will ask the first round, then we'll go back and forth between the House and the Senate. I want to express my appreciation for the tremendous turnout that we have today. We're going to have four-minute rounds because we have so many people and we have limited amounts of time. Representative Garcia.
Robert Garcia (01:23:50):
Thank you. I want to just begin by thanking all of our witnesses. Each of your stories, it's been very honestly hard to hear. Like many of my colleagues, I'm enraged by what you've all had to go through. I'm so sorry, the stories are horrific and I promise you that every single one of us, whether it's the House or the Senate, we will hold all of those that cause you harm accountable. You all deserve justice and you deserve peace and it's horrific that anyone in our country has to go through what you have all been through, and I'm so sorry. We know that they're calling some of you and Americans across this country, terrorists and anarchists. And I want to be clear that President Trump and his administration continue to lie about what they're doing over and over again. I want to start with Ms. Martinez, you shared a heartbreaking story, and I just want to go over some information on the record again, to be very clear. You were shot five times, which is terrifying and horrific. Your own government called you a domestic terrorist, is that correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:24:53):
Correct.
Robert Garcia (01:24:55):
And you're not a terrorist, of course, correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:24:58):
No, I'm not.
Robert Garcia (01:25:00):
You're a teacher, is that right?
Ms. Martinez (01:25:02):
Yes, correct.
Robert Garcia (01:25:03):
You were convicted of no crimes, is that correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:25:06):
Correct.
Robert Garcia (01:25:08):
Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
Ms. Martinez (01:25:10):
Never.
Robert Garcia (01:25:11):
Never been convicted of a crime. But the government kept calling you a domestic terrorist even after all the baseless criminal charges against you were dismissed. Is that correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:25:19):
Yes, correct.
Robert Garcia (01:25:20):
Would you agree that the government is trying to intimidate protestors and to encourage more violence?
Ms. Martinez (01:25:25):
Yes.
Robert Garcia (01:25:26):
Is it true that in the body-cam footage, the CBP officer told you to, and I'm so sorry for saying this, the officer told you to quote, "Do something, bitch." Before he fired?
Ms. Martinez (01:25:37):
Yes.
Robert Garcia (01:25:39):
It's disgusting, shameful, and it gets worse. Ms. Martinez, these are images of texts sent by the agent who shot you. And they're actually disturbing to read, but I think it's important for the public to see this. The agent linked an article about your shooting and texted, "Read it. Five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Put that in your book, boys. Oh, well, it is what it is. Shit happens." This is someone that works for the United States government. "I fired five rounds and she had seven holes." Now he was talking about you and it's our understanding that he was actually bragging about his aim shooting an unarmed American citizen. Is that right?
Ms. Martinez (01:26:36):
Correct.
Robert Garcia (01:26:38):
And I'm so sorry, Ms. Martinez. DHS has allowed the agent who shot you to remove evidence and to potentially destroy it. Is that correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:26:46):
Correct.
Robert Garcia (01:26:48):
They're actively working to deny you justice to an American citizen who's been shot and almost murdered. I'm so sorry. I want to turn to Ms. Raman very briefly. The government, and I'm sorry to tell you. It's important that of course that those are watching can see this. I'm going to turn this for a minute, and I'm going to turn it over to Ms. Raman. Thank you. The image above, you just saw it, Ms. Raman, we've taken it down, of course. Ms. Raman, you were literally just driving to a doctor in your own city, is that correct?
Aliya Rahman (01:27:13):
That's correct.
Robert Garcia (01:27:14):
You shared that when officers were yelling at you, that you thought about others who had been shot. Is that correct?
Aliya Rahman (01:27:19):
Yes.
Robert Garcia (01:27:20):
You told officers that you were disabled, is that correct?
Aliya Rahman (01:27:22):
Yes, many times.
Robert Garcia (01:27:24):
You were still brutally arrested, denied, and denied medical care, and you lost consciousness in your cell. Is that correct?
Aliya Rahman (01:27:30):
That is correct.
Robert Garcia (01:27:31):
Horrific, outrageous, and I'm so sorry that this happened to you. And I would encourage the American public to view the photos of what happened to Ms. Raman, which are very hard to see. These agents are unleashing violence against people across our country. And I have one final picture as I close. I want to remind the American public of Stephen Miller. There is probably no single person in this government has done more damage and more harm to people across this country, immigrants and US citizens in the terror that is happening across this country than this man right here. And it's our job as a House, a Senate, and a United Congress to hold him responsible for the crimes that are happening to United States citizens. As a country, we have to do better. And with that, I yield back.
Richard Blumenthal (01:28:25):
Thank you very much. I want to express my apology as well, but the person who really owes you apologies, Kristi Noem, and the leadership of that agency and the President of the United States owes you an apology as well. I'm going to hold up the same poster that Representative Garcia just asked you about. We thought alike, great minds think alike. Ms. Martinez, Charles Exum. That's what Charles Exum had to say about shooting you. What would you say to Charles Exum?
Ms. Martinez (01:29:17):
That I hope that he never goes through this pain again. I hope that him and his family never goes through this pain that what me and my family went through.
Richard Blumenthal (01:29:28):
Well said. What I would say to him is have you no sense of decency? Have you no sense of shame?
Ms. Martinez (01:29:36):
Empathy.
Richard Blumenthal (01:29:38):
And I would say the same to Kristi Noem, and to all at DHS responsible, because what this poster shows is that those DHS agents made our streets less safe. ICE and CBP are making our neighborhoods less safe. If an agent of the United States government can shoot you, literally shoot you, cause you almost to bleed to death and feel this kind of callousness and cruelty. There is a need to change the training, the recruiting, the structure, completely overhaul, rebuild from the bottom up and house clean from the top down. And I think you really summarized it best in the testimony I just heard. "What about all the others?" I'm quoting you. "What about all the others who did not survive or were not fortunate enough to have videos proving that the agent lied?" Charles Exum sought to assassinate you and then DHS sought to assassinate your character. That is unconscionable and intolerable. Mr. Rascon, how do you feel now about what happened to you? I gather the emotions are still with you?
Daniel Rascon (01:31:36):
Yes, sir, they are. I feel like I still look over my shoulder and so does the rest of my family. And it's tough to relive the situation and think about it on the daily because our fight is not over.
Richard Blumenthal (01:31:56):
I would like to ask you, Ms. Raman, because your outrage and your anger was so powerful, whether you would endorse the kind of remedies that would enable you to bring a lawsuit against the agents who so brutally abused you?
Aliya Rahman (01:32:21):
Yes, this is a solvable problem. I'm very angry that it's not being solved.
Richard Blumenthal (01:32:26):
And Ms. Martinez, would you want to seek justice and accountability?
Ms. Martinez (01:32:32):
I do.
Richard Blumenthal (01:32:34):
Mr. Rascon?
Daniel Rascon (01:32:36):
Yes, sir. I do.
Richard Blumenthal (01:32:38):
And just finally, I'd like to ask this entire panel, all the United States citizens here, please raise your hand. Thank you. And thank you for being here.
Robert Garcia (01:32:52):
I think I want to call Representative Krishnamoorthi, please, for his four minutes.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:33:01):
Thank you very much, and thank you to the witnesses for your courage in coming here and telling us your testimony. Mr. Stoughton, during Operation Midway Blitz, Secretary Noem posted on Twitter the following. She said, "We will make America City safe again. Chicago, we are here for you." I'm a representative of the Chicago area, so this was something I paid attention to. Let's look at what DHS has done to quote unquote, "Make Chicago safer." According to the Chicago Sun Times, in November, a federal agent pepper sprayed this one-year-old baby in a Sam's Club parking lot in Cicero. That didn't make people safer, right?
Seth Stoughton (01:33:42):
It did not.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:33:43):
And Chicago wasn't safer when according to CBS, ICE agents tased Edgar Ruiz, pictured in this middle panel, a US citizen in the face after he didn't open his car door to allow them in, correct?
Seth Stoughton (01:33:57):
[inaudible 01:34:01].
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:34:01):
And it didn't make my constituents in Elgin, Illinois safer when, as ABC7 reported, ICE agents in this panel here deployed tear gas and smoke bombs in a residential neighborhood against peaceful protestors, right?
Seth Stoughton (01:34:15):
No.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:34:16):
And my constituent Evelyn, an 18-year-old US citizen, was not safer when she was dragged from her car and tackled by agents in a residential neighborhood as reported by Chicago Tribune, right?
Seth Stoughton (01:34:27):
Certainly not.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:34:28):
And Ms. Martinez, you were certainly not safer when according to your own testimony today, you were shot with five bullets. Is that right?
Ms. Martinez (01:34:37):
Correct.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:34:40):
Let me turn to the story of Mr. Silverio Villegas Gonzalez. Here's a picture of Mr. Silverio Villegas Gonzalez. Mr. Romanucci, he dropped his kids off at school one morning and then ice agents stopped his car. When he tried to drive away, the agents claimed that they quote feared for their lives and then shot him in the neck. Mr. Villegas tragically died of his injuries. Mr. Romanucci, videos from the scene do not show Mr. Villegas Gonzalez hitting or attacking the agents. You're not aware of any evidence to the contrary, right?
Mr. Romanucci (01:35:18):
I am not aware of any of that.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:35:20):
DHS also claimed an agent was "seriously injured," but body cam footage showed the agent in question said his injuries were quote, " Nothing major." You're not aware of any evidence to the contrary, right?
Mr. Romanucci (01:35:34):
I am not, and that is very typical of the cover stories that we hear and the false narratives in order to defend their actions.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:35:41):
There was no evidence. This is part of a pattern. As you know, Mr. Romanucci, Mr. Villegas Gonzalez was stopped and then he was shot dead. The nation knows the names of Renee Good and Alex Pretti, but let us please not forget Mr. Silverio Villegas Gonzalez,
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:36:00):
... a Chicagoan and a father of two, pictured here. Let me turn to another topic. Mr. Stoughton, in a ruling on DHS's excessive use of force, US District Judge Sara Ellis accused Greg Bovino, a commander in the customs and border patrol of "outright lying." That's what this poster shows and that's what he did in a court of law, right?
Mr. Stoughton (01:36:29):
Yes.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:36:29):
In fact, during his deposition, Mr. Bovino falsely claimed and lied that he was attacked before he deployed tear gas at peaceful protestors in Little Village in the Chicago area, correct?
Mr. Stoughton (01:36:40):
Yes. He lied about being hit in the head with a rock prior to [inaudible 01:36:45]. That did not happen.
Representative Krishnamoorthi (01:36:46):
It did not happen. He also lied about something else. In court, he falsely claimed that he did not tackle a protestor to the ground during a demonstration outside of Broadview's ICE facility. But here are the pictures of him doing just that. He lied, he lied, and he lied again. I've already called for Secretary Noem to be fired or impeached. Today, I'm calling for Greg Bovino to be fired. In addition, he must be investigated and held accountable for his actions and I believe crimes in Chicago and across the country. Thank you, and I yield back.
Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Klobuchar (01:37:27):
Thank you. I want to thank Brent and Luke for their powerful testimony earlier and for being with us to honor the memory of their sister and my constituent Renee Good, Senator Smith and I had the privilege to meet with them ahead of time. I also want to thank you, Ms. Rahman, for coming forward in the hardest of circumstances to tell your story of despite the claims that ICE's focus is to go after the worst of the worst, the most violent offenders. In fact, they went after you when you were on your way to a doctor's appointment. Our state is once again the center of America's heartbreak, but I hope my colleagues see that we're also the center of America's courage and hope. Courage and hope when 50,000 people march peacefully in below zero weather. Courage and hope when neighbors are helping neighbors and people they've ever even met. And courage and hope when you Ms. Rahman are willing to come forward and Renee's brothers are willing to testify in her memory.
(01:38:36)
So I had seen the video, Ms. Rahman, of what happened to you, but hearing your story is even more chilling. Can you talk about the chaos in the moment as you're just driving to a doctor's appointment that made it hard for you or really any other person to figure out what to do?
Ms. Rahman (01:38:55):
Yes. There are no signs. There's no sign of the skill that elementary crossing guards have. There's no single person giving instructions. Inside the Whipple Center, it is like that also. And I have an auditory processing challenge that means multiple voices sound like they're at the same volume. I did comply with at least one of those people.
Senator Klobuchar (01:39:24):
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I think when you listen to the professor talk about right policing and how it's supposed to work or our Minneapolis Police Chief O'Hara, who's been very outspoken on this, part of the problem is you have these people that are not police officers in our state. They're not following the rules of conduct and you were a victim of that. Mr. Romanucci, I know you're representing Ms. Good's family, but I'm sure you've also heard about to your firm other constitutional violations. I just use examples that may not be your clients, but the two-year-old deported that my office worked on in the middle of the night to get this little girl back. The five-year-old Liam, who was brought back and people were very happy about that with a little blue hat with the ears and his Spider-Man backpack. And we just found out today that the Deputy Attorney General has announced that they're appealing that ruling out of Texas.
(01:40:21)
The Hmong elder who was pulled out in his underwear when they figured out they had the wrong guy and he was driven around for an hour and then they realized the guy that they were trying to get was already in jail, publicly available information had been for years. Can you talk about the repeated constitutional violations happening in my home state?
Mr. Romanucci (01:40:39):
Madam Senator Klobuchar, we see this routinely. It's cringe worthy to watch the video every day on the news and to see what is happening in Minneapolis to American citizens who are having their rights violated consistently, routinely. It sounds like a school yard when you're saying constitutional violation, First Amendment, Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment, 10th Amendment, 14th Amendment. It's like we're reciting something. It is consistent, it's routine, and it must be stopped. There needs to be accountability. Without accountability, we will continue this day in and day out until law enforcement officers are able to be held accountable.
Senator Klobuchar (01:41:21):
And speaking of that, how does the Trump administration's refusal to cooperate with our state Attorney General's Office, Keith Ellison, our local authorities refusing to have the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension investigate your client's family's loved one's case interfere with holding people accountable?
Mr. Romanucci (01:41:42):
Well, it absolutely starts with the false narrative that officers, law enforcement officers have absolute immunity because that gives them the right to think they have absolute impunity. And without any significant parallel investigation or cooperative investigation, there cannot be accountability either on the civil side, administrative side, and certainly there's going to be compromise then on the civil side without meaningful, transparent, real investigation.
Senator Klobuchar (01:42:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:42:19):
Thank you. Next, I'd like to ask Representative Ro Khanna, please.
Representative Khanna (01:42:22):
Thank you. Ms. Martinez, the entire country needs to hear your story. You were born in Chicago and raised there. You're an American citizen, correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:42:34):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:42:36):
And you were in your car driving around in the neighborhood as ICE agents were there and your interest was simply to warn neighbors that ICE was in the neighborhood, correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:42:47):
Yes. I was also going to take clothes to donate at my local church.
Representative Khanna (01:42:52):
And as you were driving along, following the rules of the road, an ICE agent slams his car into your car, correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:43:01):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:43:03):
And you panic, you immediately stop. The ICE agent doesn't ask you politely get out of the car. The ICE agent comes and so you panic, you move to the left lane, and then the ICE agent gets out and starts to shoot you, correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:43:18):
As I was driving away, yes.
Representative Khanna (01:43:20):
Shooting an American citizen. Not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, but five times. Is that correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:43:32):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:43:34):
Now you testified that my life was nearly taken by my own government. Correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:43:41):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:43:42):
And then the ICE agent doesn't say, "How can I help when you've got blood running out of your body?" The ICE agent doesn't call 911. You have to drive a mile before you call 911, 911 to get medical attention, correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:43:57):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:43:58):
And then you go to a hospital and they're so concerned about detaining you, they don't even let you get adequate healthcare. Is that correct?
Ms. Martinez (01:44:05):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:44:06):
You have to beg them to take you for medical care.
Ms. Martinez (01:44:10):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:44:11):
As an American citizen.
Ms. Martinez (01:44:13):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:44:13):
And then you're arrested, detained, and called a domestic terrorist after this ICE agent shot you five times.
Ms. Martinez (01:44:21):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:44:23):
I'm angry on your behalf, Ms. Martinez. Tell me, what do you want this government to do to apologize to you and make you whole for what happened to you?
Ms. Martinez (01:44:31):
Apologize and accountability, that's all I want. Just a sorry. You're not a domestic terrorist. That's it. That's all I want. That's all I'm asking for. For them to admit that they were wrong. Everything that they said about me, I just want accountability and for them to say, "No, you're not a domestic terrorist. We were wrong." And a sorry, a simple sorry. That's it.
Representative Khanna (01:44:54):
And I know you mentioned Charles Exum, the agent who shot you five times.
Ms. Martinez (01:44:59):
Correct.
Representative Khanna (01:45:00):
I believe he should be arrested. I believe he should be prosecuted. I believe it is outrageous what happened to you. This government owes you an apology and I appreciate your courage for telling your story here today.
Ms. Martinez (01:45:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:45:16):
Senator Padilla.
Senator Padilla (01:45:18):
Thank you, both Senator Blumenthal and Representative Garcia for convening us once again on these difficult but necessary conversations to bring these stories to light. And I want to thank all the witnesses for your participation here as well, for your bravery, for your courage, to share your stories, particularly Ms. Martinez, Ms. Rahman, and my constituent from California, Mr. Rascon. I know it's not easy. It's time on your part, emotion, on your part, so fresh because of what has happened to you and to your families.
(01:45:56)
I don't want to repeat some of what's been said by my colleagues or ask you questions because you've done such a powerful job in sharing your experience, not just for this committee or these committees to hear, but for the world to hear because the cameras are here. The press is paying attention. We hope the American people hear what's happening through your eyes.
(01:46:16)
But I do want to add a couple of other elements to the context here. First of all, why is it just us? It's the House. It's the Senate. But why is it just Democrats? What is the administration in engaging in this truth and accountability conversation? Sadly, we've come to not expect it from Donald Trump because we know who he is. We're not shocked at how his cabinet acts because they're just a reflection and extension of him. Let's not let our Republican colleagues off the hook because under normal circumstances, regardless of who's in the majority, when tragedies like this happen, congressional committees convene to conduct our job to provide that oversight. But our Republican colleagues refuse to, not at the House, not at the Senate, not at the full committee, and not even the subcommittee level. But at least we are here doing what we can to bring this information to light.
(01:47:20)
Now, over the course of the last year, we've all seen the images because while Minneapolis is in the most intense spotlight right now, what we're seeing and hearing began in Southern California, the greater Los Angeles area, we've seen incidents in Chicago, we've seen incidents in Charlotte, we've seen incidents in Portland, and now we're seeing it intensely in Minnesota.
(01:47:46)
We've seen the masks, the unmarked cars, the agents who refuse to identify themselves. We've seen the agents coming out of helicopters repelling onto an apartment building in Chicago, kicking indoors indiscriminately, all for purposes of making a promotional video for themselves. We've heard and seen about the tear gas. We've seen the shootings of cars like Mr. Rascon's experience and others. And a few weeks ago, we saw the killing of Renee Good. And I bring us back to that point because under normal circumstances, you might get a sense of like, "Ooh, let's bring the temperature down a little bit." That was an officer, not just use of force, officer involved shooting, a fatal officer involved shooting. And instead of proceeding with the best practices of an independent investigation, what do we hear from the administration? All the way to the top. No, these officers have complete immunity. Number one, that's not true. It's wrong. Number two, it's the opposite message, the wrong message to send the aid to the agents in the field.
(01:48:59)
So as heartbroken as I am, I'm not shocked that less than three weeks later, Mr. Pretti was shot 10 times in the back. All for what? Because Ms. Good and Mr. Pretti were exercising their first amendment rights. They're speaking up on behalf of their neighbors. That's so core to our democracy freedom of speech. I appreciate Mr. Stoughton's contribution to this conversation here because under normal circumstances, I've been in public service a long time, I've served in local government, state government, and now at the federal level. Under normal circumstances, we lean on a credible, independent investigation. Sometimes it's administrative at the beginning to find out what happened and if consequences or accountability aren't ordered for an officer. Absent that, because our country's history is not perfect, under normal circumstances, we turn to the Department of Justice and the Civil Rights Division to oversee a credible, independent investigation and bring forth consequences and accountability when warranted. But sadly, we're not living in normal times.
(01:50:21)
And so we do need to exercise any leverage point we can for the important reforms and restraints of what's happening on the streets for the safety of our communities and our constituents. And I bring that independent investigation as an example because when it comes to state and local law enforcement, our citizens have yet another recourse. They can bring a civil right of action when the government fails in their responsibility. But colleagues, sadly, that is not an option when it comes to ICE agents or CBP or other federal law enforcement officers. So we're living at a time when victims of their violence have no other recourse for justice. And Senator Blumenthal and I and others, both sides of the Capitol are working hard to advance legislation to that effect.
(01:51:23)
Ms. Martinez deserves justice. Ms. Rahman deserves justice. Mr. Rascon deserves justice. The people of our country deserve better. Thank you all.
Speaker 3 (01:51:36):
Thank you, Senator. Next up, we have Representative Brown.
Representative Brown (01:51:39):
Thank you. Law enforcement has two very straightforward goals. Keep people safe and build trust in our communities, yet somehow President Trump has managed to weaponize ICE and CBP in a way that has shattered trust and made entire communities more dangerous. What we are seeing right now is not normal. It is not acceptable and it is not right. In just the first month of this year alone, two US citizens, Alex Pretti and ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA and Renee Good, a mother, were killed by federal agents. As if that weren't bad enough, top administration officials like JD Vance and Kristi Noem rushed to publicly justify those killings and slander the victims. Just weeks earlier, Keith Porter, a 43-year-old father, was shot and killed by an off-duty ICE officer in Los Angeles.
(01:52:47)
And nearly every day since, Americans have watched footage of mass federal agents, dragging people from cars, menacing peaceful protestors, teargassing neighborhoods, harming bystanders, including babies, and ripping children from their parents. These are not one-offs. These are not honest mistakes. These are predictable results of an administration from the President on down that uses disgraceful language to dehumanize immigrants as criminals, rapists, and invaders. And it is the result of a regime that prioritizes quotas over judgment, intimidation over restraint, and political theater over human dignity and life.
(01:53:44)
When the government kills its own citizens and then rushes to defend itself, rather than seek the truth and ensure justice, something is fundamentally broken. And just this week, that same recklessness was aimed at my home state of Ohio. In Springfield, thousands of Haitian families, people who have lived and worked legally under temporary protected status have been thrown into chaos, not because they broke the law, not because conditions in Haiti have improved, but because Trump's ICE needs bodies to deport to meet draconian political driven quotas. These families are workers, taxpayers, parents. They have stabilized local economies, field critical jobs, and strengthened their communities.
(01:54:42)
Even Ohio's Republican Governor, Mike DeWine has raised concerns about the damage this will cause. Just last night, a federal judge blocked this administration's attempt to revoke TPS for the hundreds of thousands of Haitians that legally live in this country. The judge also noted that the administration was motivated by racial hostility against Haiti. This was wrong in Minneapolis. It is wrong in Ohio. It is wrong in every corner of this nation. And Congress has an obligation to say clearly and unequivocally that this is wrong. So Mr. Stoughton, can you briefly explain why this administration believes it is appropriate to publicly exonerate agents and blame victims before independent investigations are finished? And is that practice consistent with the constitutional principles and basic accountability?
Mr. Stoughton (01:55:49):
I could not begin to offer a rational explanation for why the government and the current administration preemptively and prematurely exonerates officers prior to any investigation. There is no professional or democratically appropriate justification for doing so.
Representative Brown (01:56:04):
Thank you. And would you say that practice is consistent with constitutional principles and basic accountability?
Mr. Stoughton (01:56:11):
It certainly is not.
Representative Brown (01:56:13):
And Mr. Stoughton, does stripping legal status from law abiding immigrant families make our communities safer or our borders more secure?
Mr. Stoughton (01:56:24):
Both legally and empirically, no, it does not.
Representative Brown (01:56:29):
Thank you. See, this isn't just about immigration policy, politics, or party. It's about people. It's about defining what kind of country we are. We can be a nation that enforces the law without sacrificing human rights. We can be a nation that protects people who are contributing to our communities and honoring the law. And we can be a nation that demands accountability when the use of force goes too far and when innocent lives are lost because every life deserves dignity, safety, and justice. And at the end of the day, this is about this administration's lack of respect for human life, lack of respect for the constitution and lack of respect for the rule of law. Enforcement without accountability is not justice, and silence in the face of harm is not leadership. We owe our constituents and the families who have suffered better. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:57:38):
Senator Durbin.
Senator Durbin (01:57:38):
I want to thank all of the witnesses who appeared before us today, my friend, Tony Romanucci. And I particularly want to call attention to Ms. Marimar Martinez. Your name on this side of the table is El Milagro. You are a miracle. The fact that you were here today after being shot five times to tell your story, God had a purpose for you and your purpose was served today by telling us this story. I'm the ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and I want you to know for the record, Secretary Noem has not appeared before our committee in over a year. She's too busy. Come and answer for the mismanagement of this agency and the damage that's being done, not only to the people of America, but to our reputation in the world when you consider the police tactics that are being used.
(01:58:40)
Mr. Stoughton, I was going to go through some of the things that Ms. Martinez lived through and ask you to comment. I sense from your earlier answers what you will be saying, but this much I want to make clear. Chicago was one of the first victims of this policy of massive deportation. I came to the Senate Democratic Caucus Luncheon and I told my colleagues after it got started and after I visited Little Village and the neighborhoods and saw what happened. Be prepared because this show is coming to your town next. They may leave Minnesota and I'm sure people in Minnesota can't wait for that to happen. They may leave some other place, but they're headed to a new place.
(01:59:23)
You see, they appropriated billions of dollars for this effort, this mass deportation, billions of dollars, so that the force that they have created that we've heard described today is larger than the United States Marine Corps, larger than the FBI. They are prepared to take this show on the road and to visit it to polling places and schools, nurseries, Montessori schools all across America.
(01:59:53)
We have to do something. It is up to us. The courts are doing some things. I wish they would do more, but we have to do our part. And that's why we've made it clear that this negotiation to change the standards for ICE is critical for us to continue funding this agency. Critical. 10 days, the Republicans are arguing, "It's not long enough. We need longer." No, 10 days is plenty of time to do what needs to be done. The basics, Mr. Stoughton, the basics of policing. All we're asking is that this effort by ICE and other federal agencies adhere to the same standards and principles as policemen and police women across the United States already. That's not too much to ask. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 3 (02:00:39):
Thank you, Senator. Next up is Representative Stansbury.
Representative Stansbury (02:00:45):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to start out by saying thank you all for being here and being brave enough to share your stories. I don't know what to say, but I do have to say that I'm literally shaking and my heart has been pounding, sitting here, listening to your stories. And particularly, Ms. Martinez, as you shared your personal story of sitting outside the jail as you were bleeding out and having your picture taken, I don't normally talk about my own personal experience with the justice system and my family because it's such a painful experience, but your story for me really made me think about an experience that our family had about a decade ago. And the reason why I want to share it here in this space is because I think it helps to amplify and hopefully show that we're listening.
(02:01:53)
And that is that I had a member of my family who about 10 years ago, 15 years ago, was picked up not in a detention for immigration, but for other reasons, and was taken to a local county jail where he had a medical emergency in the jail. And the agents in the jail not only did not help him when he had a medical emergency in the jail, they watched him and laughed as he died. And in the aftermath of his death, the agents that were involved, both the local law enforcement and the jail officials tried to intimidate members of my family to try to cover it up. And at the end of the day, obviously there was a wrongful death settlement and Department of Justice was ultimately brought in to provide oversight over this county jail because this was not the only incident in which that had happened.
(02:02:53)
And I think that goes to the points that the senators were making, which is that at the end of the day, this should not be happening. This should not happen to anyone in America. It should not be happening to US citizens. It should not be happening to immigrants. It should not be happening to anyone in America. I don't care who you are or what your identity is or how your status is under the law in this country. This should not be happening in the United States. And there are systems in place to provide a check and balance to make sure that this does not happen to people in our country. And so to hear your stories and to hear the violence that is being committed in our communities against our people.
(02:03:39)
And then to see White House officials, the President of the United States, disparaging entire communities going after members of Congress, the Vice President, telling the American people that these individuals have total immunity, to see Kristi Noem go on national television and lie about you, to lie about you, that they're tampering with evidence. And then to see that the actual agents committing these crimes, because I want to be clear, these are crimes. This is not in the line of duty. You don't shoot, murder and harm people in the line of duty. That is a crime. That is crime.
(02:04:25)
And this is not an accident. I want to be clear about that. There's a lot of discussion going around in these halls about they need better training, that this is just a few isolated incidents. Well, let's be clear about what's going on here for the American people. Over the last year, over 37 individuals have died in immigrant detention. Multiple people have been murdered and gunned down in the street. We have three individuals in front of us here today who in front of the entire world, their lives were shattered, and this was not an accident or of lack of training.
(02:05:10)
This is the policy of the United States government, and it is being paid for by your tax dollars. Because literally this chamber passed $85 billion in funding to allow this to happen and to arm these agents with those night vision, with those guns, and then to unleash them under a policy that is so based in cruelty, so based in a lack of humanity, so based in a lack of basic respect for human dignity, the Constitution, due process that they would allow people to die in the streets and then go lie to our faces about it.
(02:05:58)
So I don't know what to say about what comes next, but I do want to just say to Mr. Granger, both of the brothers who came here to share about your sister today and the story of her light, her sunlight being like a dandelion. I mean, this isn't just about sunlight. We're here to bear witness. We're here to tell the truth, but I'm sorry, we need to defund and dismantle this agency immediately. A bill just passed a few moments ago before we walked into this hearing room to give another two weeks to think about a deal. No, it's time to defund this. This has to end.
(02:06:44)
I think I'll just close out by saying, because I really don't know what else to say, that there's a saying, Nelson Mandela said that both the oppressed and the oppressor are robbed of their humanity and what this administration is doing right now is robbing America of our humanity and it has to stop.
Speaker 2 (02:07:10):
Senator Warren, if you are ready, if not, we can give you a few minutes.
Senator Warren (02:07:16):
I'm always ready.
Speaker 2 (02:07:18):
That's what I thought.
Senator Warren (02:07:18):
I never want to pass this up. So I really do want to start by saying thank you very, very much to Congressman Garcia, to Senator Blumenthal for holding this important forum and thank all of you for being here. You've already said it many times over, ICE is terrorizing our communities. They have used military style riot gear against peaceful demonstrators. They've seized school kids, they've gassed a baby, they've gunned down American citizens on our streets. And meanwhile,
Senator Warren (02:08:00):
Vice President Vance is telling agents that they have, and I want to quote him, "absolute immunity from any repercussions." And Trump and Republicans are now trying to shovel billions of additional dollars into the ICE funds so that they can continue to run amok with no real constraints over their behavior.
(02:08:27)
It is not a surprise that ICE agents seem to think that they are above the law because Donald Trump, JD Vance, and the Republicans are treating them like they are above the law. It is the responsibility of the United States Congress to make clear that the law applies to everyone, and that includes ICE agents in America.
(02:08:55)
So I appreciate your being here. Let me just ask a couple of questions. Ms. Martinez, you've told us that last October you were driving in your car when a border patrol agent rammed the back of your vehicle, pointed an assault rifle at you and opened fire shooting you five times. You weren't ever found guilty of any wrongdoing, and yet you were shot five times by border patrol. So my question is, do you know if anyone will ever be held accountable for this
Miramar Martinez (02:09:32):
I don't even know, but I hope soon.
Senator Warren (02:09:37):
Do you know what happened after you were shot? What happened to the agents who shot you?
Miramar Martinez (02:09:46):
I'm not too sure what happened to him, honestly. I just know that he drove his vehicle back to Maine. That's all I know. But I don't know if he's working or... Honestly, I don't know.
Senator Warren (02:10:01):
So as I understand it, this agent left town, making it even harder for an investigation to go forward. And I take it you at least have not been apprised of any investigation that's ongoing against this agent who shot you at point-blank range?
Miramar Martinez (02:10:19):
Correct.
Senator Warren (02:10:20):
Yeah. So we just need to be clear here. Immigration agents shoot our neighbors at point-blank range with no justification, and here's the big part, and no accountability afterwards.
(02:10:37)
And Ms. Martinez and Mr. Romanucci, did I get that right? Good.
Mr. Romanucci (02:10:44):
Yes.
Senator Warren (02:10:45):
You're an attorney. You represent the family of Renee Good. We appreciate your being here today.
Mr. Romanucci (02:10:51):
Thank you.
Senator Warren (02:10:52):
We've all seen the videos. Renee was coming back from dropping off her kids at school. She has stuffed animals in her glove compartment when an ICE agent shot and killed her. We've got a serious issue with accountability for the agents involved, and I know you've testified to issues with seeking relief for plaintiffs.
(02:11:13)
On top of that, it seems that there haven't been any consequences for the agency itself to prevent these abuses from repeating themselves in the future. ICE is still sitting on this massive slush fund that Republicans put together last year as part of Donald Trump's One Big Beautiful bill, an amount that is larger than most countries' military budgets. So let me ask you, has even a penny of ICE's slush funding been frozen in response to the killing of Renee Goode?
Mr. Romanucci (02:11:51):
Senator Warren, I am not aware of any money being frozen as a result of what is happening in Minneapolis or any of the other cities. But what I can tell you is this, there will never, ever be accountability until we have real investigations that become public.
(02:12:10)
Could you ever imagine the disaster that happened just miles from here? American Airlines crashing... Helicopter crashing into American Airlines and the NTSB saying, "We're not going to investigate or ever release any public findings." We would all be sitting here with our jaws wide open.
Senator Warren (02:12:29):
Yeah.
Mr. Romanucci (02:12:29):
There needs to be investigation, and I would support any pinch point that would not or that would increase accountability for ICE and CBP.
Senator Warren (02:12:40):
Well, you and I are on the same page here. And I'm sorry for going over here, but I so much appreciate all of you being here today.
(02:12:48)
There are a lot of new rules we need to put in place. The police in Massachusetts do not wear masks. If there's an officer involved shooting, there's an independent investigation. There are a lot of things we could put in place, but a key has to be accountability. If you shoot people, if you gas children, if you seize little people out of elementary schools, if you break the law, part of what our whole system relies on is there's ultimately some accountability. We understand that we get things wrong, but the way we get things better is we demand accountability of ourselves and of those who broke the law. And for me, that's what this hearing is about and that's what this moment is about. It is Congress's responsibility to step up and say, "We are going to put new rules in place for ICE, but most of all, we're going to demand accountability for those who break the law."
Mr. Romanucci (02:13:49):
Yes.
Senator Warren (02:13:49):
Thank you. Thank you all for being here.
(02:13:51)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:13:53):
Thank you, Senator. Next up is Representative Lee.
Representative Lee (02:13:57):
Thank you, Mr. Ranking member, and to both of our ranking members for holding this hearing.
(02:14:02)
And I just first want to associate myself with all of my colleagues who have acknowledged that you can't reform authoritarianism and that we can't unmask fascism and cruelty and oppression and that the call now is to abolish this agency.
(02:14:21)
ICE and DHS agents are terrorizing communities. They're violating constitutional rights. They're harming, even killing people. So calling for body cameras and codes of conduct, quite frankly, isn't enough when the agency doesn't care about the current laws or the rules that they're already supposed to follow. The problem is that these immigration enforcement agents are operating exactly how they were meant to operate. ICE is uniquely and deeply an American creation.
(02:14:53)
A lot of my colleagues have called ICE to Gestapo, which makes them seem foreign and new. It allows people to say that what we're experiencing right now is in some way unprecedented. But this isn't a new phenomenon. If you just look back throughout our own nation's history, look back to the slave patrols or to racial segregation enforcement, if we look at the decades of run-of-the-mill racism and authoritarianism, what we're seeing is America doing American things. The so called Kavanaugh stops from what the Supreme Court opened the doors to or stops based on racial profiles are just this era's stop and frisk.
(02:15:32)
For years, Black and brown folks have been sounding the alarm about racial bias and discrimination in law enforcement, yet any tiny steps forwards have been erased to support tough on crime policies. The lessons learned in the wake of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery have been completely abandoned, and ICE has been able to take advantage of that and run with it.
(02:15:55)
ICE and DHS are inflicting generational trauma. Just listening to our witnesses today and what they've been through at the hands of our government should be difficult for anybody who claims to love this country to hear. Anybody.
(02:16:10)
Mr. Rascon spoke today about going out and running errands with his future in laws when immigration agents stopped their car. Ms. Rahman told us she was going to a doctor's appointment when ICE ripped her from her vehicle as she yelled that she had a disability. Ms. Martinez explained how immigration officers ramped her car and then shot her and then tried to blame her. And we heard from Mr. Romanucci today because we can't hear from Renee Good because ICE killed her.
(02:16:39)
Mr. Rascon, after the sketchy traffic stop and after they came to your home right after, these immigration officers actually terrorized your family a third time, almost two weeks later, when they broke your front door down, correct?
Mr. Rascon (02:16:50):
That is correct.
Representative Lee (02:16:52):
What went through your head as all of this went down at about 4:00 in the morning?
Mr. Rascon (02:17:01):
Just fear.
Representative Lee (02:17:04):
And your fiance, she was pregnant at the time?
Mr. Rascon (02:17:08):
Yes, she was.
Representative Lee (02:17:10):
Did they make any effort to make sure that she stayed safe and calm?
Mr. Rascon (02:17:16):
Not at all. They just kept pointing the lasers at her and rest of us.
Representative Lee (02:17:23):
If you don't, and it's okay if you can't right now answer, how has your family coped in the aftermath of this?
Mr. Rascon (02:17:33):
Just staying strong together and having faith and slowly moving forward as best as we can.
Representative Lee (02:17:38):
Yeah. I want to thank you and all of our witnesses for coming in today and for speaking your truth. This cannot be overstated that in these times, it is actually dangerous to speak out against this administration. It's dangerous to speak out against this agency that we know has the ability to target people.
(02:18:01)
When our federal government is willing to lie and to slander anyone who speaks out against Trump or his minions or their plans, it is brave and it's honorable for you to do this and be here. This country needs to really reflect on how we got here. We have to look back and learn rather than sanitizing our history and forget our flaws. We can't just stop at abolishing ICE because that's no longer enough. We need to prosecute the wrong doings and hold these agents and leaders and anyone who had anything to do with that accountable.
(02:18:29)
I thank you for your time, and I yield back.
Speaker 5 (02:18:31):
Thank you. Just a reminder about the four-minute rule.
(02:18:36)
Senator Schiff.
Senator Schiff (02:18:39):
Thank you, Chairman, for organizing this hearing. I had a chance to hear some of your testimony, your opening statements, which were incredibly powerful, and I am grateful that you're here and willing to share your experiences with all of us.
(02:18:54)
I want to follow up, Mr. Rascon, and ask you more about your experience. One of my Minnesota colleagues sent a clip recently of a woman driving, filming an ICE vehicle from her car. The ICE vehicle stopped. The agents got out, guns drawn, pointing three... ICE agents pointing guns at her through the windshield. She could have easily been killed. And if you're willing to share a little more about your experience, what was that like being in a vehicle, encountering that kind of threat of and use of force by agents? What is that like? What should people understand about what goes through your mind at a time like that?
Mr. Rascon (02:19:43):
It felt like we were about to be attacked for no apparent reason but it seemed like nobody, no law enforcement that was legit. Just seemed like masked individuals with crazy headpower. Once they had broken the windows and my father-in-law bravely drove away and the shots fired into the vehicle, I just thought that one of us would have been killed, but thankfully we're all okay. And I'm sorry to the victims that didn't survive.
Senator Schiff (02:20:22):
And what's it like when you drive now? What are the after effects of experiencing that now when you're out in the community? What impact has it had on you and your family?
Mr. Rascon (02:20:39):
I feel like my head is on the swivel, always looking everywhere to make sure that nobody's going to attack us without us being aware of it or anybody else in our community.
Senator Schiff (02:20:50):
Now, I know they made accusations against your family. Did they ever bring charges? Did they drop charges? What was the status of that?
Mr. Rascon (02:20:58):
They claimed that we had ran them over. And the judicial judge had watched the video and evidence, and there was no evidence that we did anything to them, and so they dropped the charges.
Senator Schiff (02:21:10):
And how long was it after you were arrested before they dropped the charges?
Mr. Rascon (02:21:17):
My father-in-law was arrested two weeks after the first incident.
Senator Schiff (02:21:22):
And how soon thereafter were the charges dropped? Do you remember?
Mr. Rascon (02:21:29):
I would say about a week or two... Maybe two to three weeks later.
Senator Schiff (02:21:33):
Anyone ever apologize to you for what's happened to your family?
Mr. Rascon (02:21:40):
Just our loved ones, not the people who were the cause of it.
Senator Schiff (02:21:46):
And Ms. Rahman, how about you? Anyone ever express any kind of remorse for slamming you to the ground for not getting medical treatment for you for what you had to endure?
Ms. Rahman (02:22:02):
Nope.
Senator Schiff (02:22:07):
Senator Padilla and I were recently at one of the large detention facilities in California. And we asked about medical treatment there, and people who were diabetic weren't getting the medicine they needed. You didn't get any kind of medical assistance. How long were you in custody?
Ms. Rahman (02:22:27):
I have not been provided information about that from DHS. I know that the timestamp of my arrival at the emergency room was after 1 o'clock. I know that I was on a trip to the doctor's just after 9:35, and I know that we asked for medical assistance at 11:00 a.m. So an hour and 47 minutes later, I was brought into the ER unconscious.
Senator Schiff (02:23:00):
Okay. And Ms. Martinez, similar question, anyone ever apologized for how your family was treated, how you were treated?
Miramar Martinez (02:23:10):
What was the question?
Senator Schiff (02:23:11):
Has anyone ever apologized to you for how you were treated?
Miramar Martinez (02:23:14):
Nope. Nobody. To this day, no apology.
Senator Schiff (02:23:20):
May I ask one last question, Ms. Chairman?
Speaker 5 (02:23:23):
Sure.
Senator Schiff (02:23:23):
What is the impact on ... You testified earlier about how this has impacted your view of all law enforcement, which you had venturated before now because you thought they were there to protect the community. Has there been a spillover effect to how much trust do you think people in your neighborhood have for law enforcement, or are people able to separate out ICE from the local police department or others?
Miramar Martinez (02:23:49):
It's scary because when I was at the hospital, there was FBI agents and ICE agents, and I was scared to even talk to both of them because I was like, "I don't know if they're working together." So it's scary, right? People don't even know who to trust no more. They don't know if they should talk to police no more. So it's really concerning what's happening, and I don't want that to happen, but it's the reality what's happening.
Senator Schiff (02:24:17):
Thank you.
(02:24:17)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 5 (02:24:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:24:21):
Thank you, Senator. Next up is Representative Casar.
Representative Casar (02:24:25):
Americans know that ICE agents shot Renee Good, but you should know what happened next. The ICE agents did not render first aid. They left Renee to bleed. Then a doctor approached the scene and he wanted to help. The doctor shouted, "Stop the bleeding." Instead, for three minutes and 26 seconds, ICE agents held back that doctor that might have been able to save Renee. So for the next three minutes and 26 seconds, I want each of us to imagine someone we know and love and imagine that they are shot, bleeding, suffering, and dying, and silently think about them being denied help for the next three minutes and 26 seconds.
(02:25:23)
"Stop the bleeding," the doctor shouted. And for three minutes and 26 seconds, ICE did not. Renee still had some pulse when the firefighters arrived, but no breathing. CPR didn't start until 10 minutes after she was shot. It was too late, but it's not too late to prevent this from happening to more people in our country.
Speaker 5 (02:28:48):
Thank you. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper (02:28:53):
Thank you for that almost unbearable amount of time. I thank all of you for coming. I am fully aware of what it takes to discuss and tell again and again when you've gone through trauma. And I appreciate it because what you're doing is helping the rest of the country to become aware of really what's happened.
(02:29:22)
I want to talk a little bit about masks. I think transparency and accountability are fundamental to every form of law enforcement, and yet we've witnessed more and more masked agents operating in unmarked vehicles, creating fear and confusion in people all over this country.
(02:29:44)
Now read this. "Research shows that anonymity can change behavior when individuals conceal their identities, they may feel less accountable, be more willing to engage in conduct they would not otherwise consider." We also know that crooks, criminals have been putting masks on to impersonate federal agents and then commit crimes. Crooks generally put masks on.
(02:30:14)
I guess the question, and Mr. Stoughton, I'd ask this of you. How does allowing ICE officers to wear masks, how does that affect law enforcement to distinguish between legitimate operations and group of armed impersonators? And what are the consequences of this policy in terms of public trust core of how we keep our communities safe?
Mr. Stoughton (02:30:37):
Anonymizing law enforcement dramatically reduces public trust. When law enforcement agents act at the local, state, or federal level, they act with public authority. That is, they are policing in my name and they are policing in your name. And that should mean that we, as the public, have the right to know who is doing what in our name. When we don't have that, it undermines accountability and it dramatically hurts public trust. It also creates tremendous confusion for the individuals who are interacting with anonymous agents who may not know who they are interacting with.
(02:31:15)
There are now at least a dozen or more stories of individuals who, upon being confronted with ICE or Customs and Border Protection agents, called the police because they did not know who they were being confronted with, these masked armed individuals who are aggressively approaching them. There is nothing to clearly distinguish that kind of enforcement operation from a criminal kidnapping or carjacking without clear identification.
Senator Hickenlooper (02:31:48):
Great. Exactly my point. I would just go down, and I was here for all three of you when you gave your testimonies. And again, words can't express how much I appreciate. I think all of us appreciate that.
(02:32:03)
Mr. Rascon, when exactly did the federal agents, how did they identify themselves? At what point?
Mr. Rascon (02:32:09):
After a repeated request, they did not identify themselves.
Senator Hickenlooper (02:32:14):
And Ms. Rahman, same question. At what point exactly did they ... And how did they identify themselves?
Ms. Rahman (02:32:24):
They did not identify themselves. I even asked them their names to have a conversation in the car, and they were silent. And Representative Lee has already talked to us about the history in America of masked men taking it upon themselves to do things to people of color. And I don't even come from a family where that has happened for generations by masked men.
Senator Hickenlooper (02:32:52):
Thank you. And Ms. Martinez, I can't ask you that question because you never even got a chance.
(02:32:59)
Anyway, I've got more questions, but I appreciate what you've all done to be here. And I think it is more powerful than you can possibly imagine. So again, thank you each. Thank you all.
(02:33:11)
I yield back to the Chair.
Speaker 4 (02:33:15):
Thank you, Senator. I'd like to now yield to Representative Crockett.
Representative Crockett (02:33:19):
Thank you so much, Mr. Reinker.
(02:33:24)
I am so frustrated. It is so hard to sit in allegedly power positions yet see this happening in my country every single day. We are arguably the most powerful people, not just in this country, but in the world. Yet some of our colleagues have decided that they wanted to abdicate their oaths and their duties, and they have decided that instead of following the law or the Constitution, they want to follow a single man. There are those that say that our democracy hangs in the balance. With every passing day, I feel as if we are slipping further and further into a full own dictatorship.
(02:34:10)
When we live in a country where a journalist by the name of Don Lemon can be arrested or Georgia Fort can be arrested, when we live in a country where a five-year-old little boy, Liam Ramos, can be thrown in what looked like a penitentiary because I did go and see him at Dilly facility, and the reality is that Liam's picture went viral, but there are so many children that are rotting away in that facility, and it seems like nobody cares, when we see what happened to Alex and Renee and my colleagues are silent or they're in defense of what took place, I start to wonder what is our purpose.
(02:34:57)
If we are sitting here and we are seeing our constitution desecrated at every single turn, and then when we have an opportunity in the minority as Democrats to say, "We are going to stop this because it's not working out very well for the Republicans." In my state of Texas, they just flipped a seat where it swung 30 points. It's not working well for the Republicans when the Republican governor in Texas decides to say, "Well, maybe we're a little off track." It's not working well for the Republicans when Donald Trump steps in and says, "Well, let me go ahead and give you a sacrificial lamb by the name of Bovino." It's not working well for them.
(02:35:37)
So we are in the best position that we could be in, yet, and still, that package passed and we gave a two-week pass for them to continue to negotiate. My question is, what are we negotiating for? What is it that we're trying to get? Because we know that they already will ignore the law. The first, the Fourth, the Fifth, and the 14th Amendments have all been thrown out of the window by this administration.
(02:36:03)
So Mr. Stoughton, DHS's internal use of force policies are supposed to be guided by constitutional protections under the Fourth Amendment. Do you think that we're seeing that?
Mr. Stoughton (02:36:17):
The policies on paper are fairly good. I do not see those being translated into practice.
Representative Crockett (02:36:22):
In fact, we know that the opinion that was written by the judge that ordered the release of Liam and his father, it says, "This case has its genesis in the ill-conceived and incompetently implemented government pursuit of daily deportation quotas, apparently even if it requires traumatizing children. This court and others regularly send undocumented people to prison and orders them deported, but do so by proper legal procedures. A parent also in the government's ignorance of an American historical document called the Declaration of Independence 33-year-old Thomas Jefferson enumerated grievances against a would-be authoritarian king over our nascient nation. Among others were, he has sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people. He has excited domestic insurrection amongst us for quartering large bodies of armed troops amongst us. He is kept amongst us in times of peace standing armies without the consent of our legislature. We, the people, are hearing echoes of that history. And then there is this pesky inconvenience called the Fourth Amendment."
(02:37:52)
Right now, I must say that the only branch that has not completely failed us is the judiciary. It is time for us to empower the people. People like like you that have been traumatized by our government, we need to make sure that your lawyers can stand up and they can get money, they can go and get some type of justice because if our president can sue our own federal government for $10 billion, then something tells me that maybe we need to loosen the reins around some of the protections that these officers have so that y'all can go and get something. And maybe, just maybe they will decide that it's not worth it to go out and traumatize its citizens.
(02:38:32)
Thank you so much, and I will yield.
Mr. Romanucci (02:38:34):
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono (02:38:36):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and also Representative Garcia for convening all of us here. And I was watching the proceedings on C-SPAN so I very much thank our witnesses for sharing your harrowing experiences.
(02:38:52)
What we are dealing with as far as I'm concerned is a lawless regime with agencies that behave in lawless ways. And we all should be motivated by the fierce urgency of now to do something about this lawlessness. There have been over 500 lawsuits filed against this administration's actions to prevent the continuing lawlessness. And so the testimony you provided shows us how critical it is for us to ... It's really hard to describe how we all felt watching what happened to so many of you, but to really put some parameters, some guardrails around the behavior of ICE and border patrol, some common sense kinds of requirements that has to do with not wearing masks, but having body cameras. There are some common sense kinds of behaviors that law enforcement officials all across our country abide by, but apparently not
Senator Hirono (02:40:00):
... ICE. And so in this, what I would call the fierce urgency of now, we need to put in some immediate parameters to how ICE is operating so that they cannot drag people out of cars. They cannot smash car windows. They cannot beat people up. And yes, of course they cannot murder people in front of our very eyes. And so my hope and expectation is that the next two weeks that there will be these kinds of parameters and guardrails put around ICE behavior. And at the same time, we need to look at some longer term reforms such as what's happening in our detention facilities, such as enabling people to sue federal agents, which they cannot, for their lawless behavior.
(02:40:52)
I do have one question for Professor Stoughton. When you have a senior aid to the president say to ICE agents where he says, and I'm talking about Stephen Miller, to quote, "To all ICE officers, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties. And anybody who lays a hand on you or tries to stop or obstruct you and is committing a felony." Now, this is a senior person to President Trump and that this sentiment was agreed to by the vice president. Professor, when you say things like that, what kind of law enforcement environment does it create for ICE and border patrol agents?
Mr. Stoughton (02:41:48):
It provides every reason for them to believe, as Mr. Romanucci put it, that they will be able to act with impunity, that there is no meaningful oversight, that any attempt and any lip service paid to accountability is purely performative. It creates an extremely dangerous precedent and risks undermining professional culture and cohesion.
Senator Hirono (02:42:14):
I would say that probably all our witnesses agree that this kind of a lawless environment was created by the very kind of statements made by senior officials in this regime. Thank you.
Senator Garcia (02:42:28):
Thank you, Senator. We're moving on to our next member. And just as a reminder to the four-minute rule, please, if possible. Representative Randall.
Representative Randall (02:42:36):
Thank you so much, Ranking Member Garcia and Ranking Member Blumenthal for holding this important hearing on the deadly use of violence, being inflicted across the country under the pretext of immigration enforcement. I also want to join my colleagues in thanking all of the witnesses for joining us. Many of you, as we have heard today, have experienced ICE's violence and brutality firsthand. And I'm grateful for your courage in testifying today, for reliving your trauma, for the benefit of others to shed light on these abuses. I hope my Republican colleagues, who as others have pointed out, are not here today, also take the time to read your stories and hear about your experiences because what is happening across our country is simply indefensible and it shouldn't be a partisan issue. In fact, it isn't a partisan issue in our communities.
(02:43:35)
Recent polling shows that ICE is underwater. 58% of Americans have an unfavorable view of the agency. That's a 19 point increase since Trump took office. 54% of independents and even 21% of Republicans nationwide support impeaching Secretary Noem. What has become incredibly clear to me, my neighbors, and to a broad majority of our fellow Americans is that we need a fundamental reimagining of what a just and humane immigration system should look like. Shooting people in the streets, teargassing and pepper spraying protesters, none of this is an accident and it's not happening in a vacuum. The Trump administration is recruiting unqualified individuals, giving less training to those who are most enthusiastic about joining this fascist, and I'm using air quotes here, police force. And has even proposed giving them bonuses based on how many people they round up each day. They're pouring $100 million into, again, air quotes, wartime recruitment strategy. Who exactly are we at war with? The five-year-olds who are being kidnapped from their parents, folks on their way to the doctor, individuals expressing their First Amendment right to free speech and protest. In my six visits to the Northwest Detention Center in my district, I've seen a shocking lack of medical care, and detained individuals being subject to inhumane conditions. As you have testified, Ms. Rahman, no timely access to medication. And in our community, no private conversations with doctors when they are taken out of detention for specialty or serious medical care. Always with an ICE or GEO agent in the room with them, despite of HIPAA protections that are offered to all of us, including incarcerated individuals on felony charges in Washington state.
(02:45:35)
Detainees not even provided enough clean underwear to wear every day. First the administration took away healthcare for millions of Americans through H.R.1 and through letting the ACA tax credits expire. Then they started shooting nurses in the street and physically obstructing and assaulting citizens who are simply trying to get to doctor's appointments. It turns out wartime is accurate, and this fascist regime is engaged in a full-on assault on everyone's right to healthcare to live and survive in this country. Ms. Rahman, what you were subjected to is appalling. I understand, as you have told us, you were trying to get to a routine doctor's appointment when immigration agents smashed your windows, dragged you out of your car and detained you. Is that correct?
Aliya Rahman (02:46:26):
That is correct. My 39th appointment at that facility.
Representative Randall (02:46:30):
You told them you needed medical care and that you have a disability. Correct?
Aliya Rahman (02:46:36):
Many times.
Representative Randall (02:46:37):
You've spoken out about the dehumanizing practices you were subjected to after you were detained. Can you share again what their response was when you told them about your disability and that you needed medical care?
Aliya Rahman (02:46:49):
First, they said too late, then they just laughed. Then silence.
Representative Randall (02:46:57):
I'm particularly concerned by the statement you shared that two local officials said they didn't want to step on ICE's toes while you were trying to get medical care. Healthcare is a human right, full stop. And what you've shared today with us and what I've heard from individuals at the ICE Detention Center in my district makes it clear that this administration is doing the absolute most to sow chaos and confusion and avoid providing clear guidance to agents and local health officials about the rights of detained individuals. Every human, immigrant, citizen, criminal or not, deserves access to healthcare. We must impeach Secretary Noem. And beyond that, we have a lot of work to do to fix our broken immigration system. And part of that is making sure folks can access quality and timely care. Thank you. I yield back.
Senator Garcia (02:47:46):
Thank you, Representative. Next up is Representative Subramanyam.
Representative Subramanyam (02:47:51):
Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, and thank you to everyone who spoke here today, and thank you to our witnesses. Really, thank you for your courage. Thank you for speaking out. There's a lot of people that don't want you to tell your stories. There's a lot of people who want you to be silent and to be quiet victims of what ICE has done, but you speaking up makes a huge difference. It makes it harder for them to keep doing it when you speak out. And so please continue to speak out and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here. Because the reality is, you are inconvenient to ICE and to this administration. They told us from the very beginning that all they were going to do is go after the worst of the worst. They were only going to go after the criminals, right? And they were going to keep our streets safe.
(02:48:34)
But in the first 10 months of the administration alone, nearly 75,000 people were swept up in immigration operations with no criminal records at all. And you all are American citizens too. Is that keeping us safe to go after American citizens, to terrorize American citizens, to terrorize families, rip families apart? And this is not an isolated incident. You all are not the only ones, although your stories are heartbreaking. This is widespread. In my community, we had a American citizen who was a Trump voter himself, who had this happen to him. He was detained by ICE agents who were looking for someone else, and they thought he was the right person, and so they harassed him and detained him. He was just driving to work on a normal day. And what's interesting and what I keep seeing over and over again, and what you have shared in your stories, is that there is no accountability.
(02:49:27)
There are no apologies even. All there is is pointing a finger at you and saying, "You're a domestic terrorist." Because you are inconvenient to them. You are the good guys. You're the ones that were doing the right things and they were the ones that came after you. And so never forget that, and we should never forget that. And attacking communities and covering it up stands for everything that this country should not stand for. And so what I want to see, first I want to see Secretary Noem impeached. I think she needs to go, resign or get impeached. We need to see a complete overhaul and reform of ICE. But I really want to ask you all, what do you want your leaders to do and what can we do to both, bring the healing that you deserve and need, as well as bring the accountability that we should see when it comes to immigration and ICE? Mr. Romanucci.
Mr. Romanucci (02:50:24):
Am I on here? Yeah. Thank you very much, Representative. I don't think there's any question that without a legislative change, in order for these fine people to be able to seek redress by filing direct lawsuits against law enforcement officers and having a public trial. If the circumstances warrant where there can be transparency and the truth comes out, we will have failed. We will not have done our job if there is not legislative change because transparency is truth and we can't get to it unless these people can have the right to sue federal law enforcement officers in the same way that the estate of George Floyd was able to sue the police officers who murdered him.
Representative Subramanyam (02:51:16):
Ms. Martinez.
Ms. Martinez (02:51:20):
Same. I just want accountability. Change, for starters. Change.
Representative Subramanyam (02:51:26):
Ms. Rahman.
Aliya Rahman (02:51:29):
I do not believe that violence from law enforcement against communities is a new problem in any way. However, I believe that this moment has provided new lenses for people who may have needed them to engage with a very old problem. It is only the tip of the iceberg. And if we can set precedent that you should be very afraid to hurt someone like this, then maybe we can solve some of that larger problem. Because even someone who was committing a crime should not have been treated the way that we were treated.
Representative Subramanyam (02:52:06):
Thank you. Mr. Rascon. Mr. Rascon.
Mr. Rascon (02:52:11):
I believe the three individuals overseeing the immigration process should be held accountable because it starts with them, Trump, Vance and Noem.
Representative Subramanyam (02:52:27):
Yeah. Mr. Stoughton.
Mr. Stoughton (02:52:32):
Thank you, Representative. I think there's a very long list that I don't have time to fully flesh out, but in a nutshell, professionalism demands accountability, both administrative and legal, and it demands improvement, that is an agency learns from its mistakes and learns where it can do better. That's a good place to start.
Representative Subramanyam (02:52:54):
Thank you. I yield back.
Senator Garcia (02:52:54):
Thank you, Representative. Next is Representative Ansari.
Representative Ansari (02:52:57):
Thank you, Ranking Member Garcia and Senator Blumenthal for hosting this very important hearing today and doing something what both House and Senate Republicans refuse to do, which is to hold this administration and in particular ICE accountable. Thank you all more importantly for sharing your stories. Like many of my colleagues have expressed, I am in awe of your bravery and just the horrors that you've had to go through should never happen to any American in this country or any human being in this country, regardless of what their immigration status is. So I am deeply sorry for what happened to you and I can assure you that I will not rest until everybody from the very top, Kristi Noem to all the way to the bottom. And these ICE agents who are acting violently and lawlessly must be prosecuted and held accountable for their crimes.
(02:53:50)
This description, what you have put forward and what we've seen across this country, ICE is not law enforcement. They're also not immigration enforcement. They are literally Trump's personal paramilitary force turned against civilians no different than many authoritarian regimes around the world. My parents fled an authoritarian regime to come to this country and the tactics are extremely similar. Now, I want to dive into some of the details of Ms. Rahman's testimony. You described that you were violently pulled from your car by DHS agents while trying to drive to a doctor's appointment. Agents had told you to move your car towards other federal agents, an action that according to the Trump administration was justification for the lethal force that was used against Renee Good. Were you concerned for your safety if you had followed their directions?
Aliya Rahman (02:54:45):
Absolutely. There were people everywhere.
Representative Ansari (02:54:48):
The violence of your detention, per your description, just seems so senseless. Why do you think they acted the way that they did?
Aliya Rahman (02:54:59):
Because I think that they are trained towards cruelty. Their tactics do not logically make sense to me, as an immigration strategy. That would be things like helping immigrants access jobs and things. It doesn't make sense to me as a public safety strategy either, but it does make a lot of sense as a strategy for teaching the population to be afraid and not speak.
Representative Ansari (02:55:22):
And DHS called you a quote, "agitator," and claims that you were arrested for obstruction. Is that how you view yourself?
Aliya Rahman (02:55:31):
No. I am a Software Engineer who was going to a doctor's appointment.
Representative Ansari (02:55:37):
Exactly. Did federal agents treat you with dignity and respect during your detention?
Aliya Rahman (02:55:43):
It doesn't seem like they know what that is.
Representative Ansari (02:55:47):
And what do you think the agents meant when they told you that you wouldn't be a problem if you were quote, "normal"?
Aliya Rahman (02:55:56):
I think the agents believe there is exactly one kind of person who's appropriate for being allowed to live their life in America. I don't fit that.
Representative Ansari (02:56:06):
Thank you. When were you first informed of your rights?
Aliya Rahman (02:56:09):
I was not informed of my rights.
Representative Ansari (02:56:11):
And were you allowed to speak with a lawyer?
Aliya Rahman (02:56:14):
No, I asked many times and they said that would happen later, but I was never actually taken to an interrogation room because there were too many, quote, "bodies" occupying those rooms and I blacked out before I was able to ever talk to anyone on the phone.
Representative Ansari (02:56:35):
And did you receive appropriate medical care or disability accommodations while you were detained?
Aliya Rahman (02:56:41):
No. I requested them many times and finally thought to ask for a wheelchair, which they didn't know if there were any. Nobody should not know the answer to if there is a wheelchair in the facility. And then when I was put in it, I was taunted, which is strange to me because that did not make their job any easier.
Representative Ansari (02:57:02):
Were you worried that immigration agents might let you die?
Aliya Rahman (02:57:06):
100% because I read books.
Representative Ansari (02:57:11):
Thank you for your testimony. I yield back.
Senator Garcia (02:57:15):
Thank you, Congresswoman. Next up is Representative Bell.
Representative Bell (02:57:19):
Thank you, Senator Blumenthal, Ranking Member Garcia. Also to our survivors for your courage, as well as our witnesses as well. My first foray into politics was as a City Councilman in a small city called Ferguson. And one thing that I learned as a City Councilman is that the relationship with citizens and their city, there was a direct correlation with their relationship with law enforcement. I would have people come up to me about their trash and just be mad. They'd come up to me about a pothole in their street and they're just hot. But as soon as that trash was picked up, as soon as that pothole was filled, they were ready to bake you cookies. A bad interaction with law enforcement doesn't go away so easily though. And I say all that because as a Ferguson City Councilman, as a later on a Municipal Court Judge, we worked hard to change not only policies, but also the perception of law enforcement in our local communities. We worked hard to get body cameras on every single officer and implementing policies that required those cameras to be on. We worked hard to implement community policing, where police officers weren't just evaluated by how many arrests they made, but how many people they knew in the community, how many conversations they initiated. We worked hard to expand treatment programs for folks struggling with mental health and addiction. And we worked hard to get law enforcement to buy into that. And they did in our community.
(02:59:43)
And so it's like taking one step forward and two steps back when we see these masked agents that I talked about earlier in this year, running around with weapons, with the color of law enforcement around them, but yet without the training. Without the adherence to the policies that actually we've seen start to build that confidence, that trust back in many places around this country. And so it's very frustrating when we look at how much effort we've put in, and then we see Renee Good and Alex Pretti shot less than two miles from each other, just three weeks apart. One step forward and two steps back. And Mr. Stoughton, I just want to ask you quickly about the force continuum and dig in a little bit about the use of force and how that is predicated on the amount of force that an officer is faced with. And if you could just talk about that and then the duty to render aid as well.
Mr. Stoughton (03:01:09):
Thank you for that question, Representative. In very abbreviated terms, officers can and in the performance of their legitimate duties may have to use force to overcome actual threats that would undermine the policing goal. Whether that's making an apprehension or conducting a search or seizure. The idea of the force continuum is essentially just a way of demonstrating the relationship between the nature and the severity of the threat presented by someone's actions, and the nature and severity of the force that the officer gets to use in response. This comes from a 1989 case, Graham v. Connor, which lays out the idea that force must be objectively reasonable, which requires balancing. And the word that we typically use in this context is proportionality. That is-
Representative Bell (03:02:06):
Mr. Stoughton, just out of respect for time, you can't use an AK if the threat is a fly swatter. Would that be fair?
Mr. Stoughton (03:02:14):
Yes, Representative. That's a good analogy.
Representative Bell (03:02:16):
Thank you.
Senator Garcia (03:02:17):
Thank you Representative. Next is Representative Simon. I just want a reminder folks with sticking to the four minutes because I think our time in the room in the chamber is also wrapped. So Representative Simon.
Representative Simon (03:02:27):
Thank you, Ranking Member, and thank you for leadership for bringing us here today. I think it's important to also lift up the voices for the past 22 years of folks on the ground in communities. Human rights attorneys, civil rights organizations who have been clear that across administrations, ICE has been a damaging force in our communities. So what you all have experienced is the ticking up of an unchecked body. I say we listen to women of color, particularly women of color organizers and activists and organizational leaders on the ground who have been citing this rallying call to deaf ears for too long. Today we heard a school teacher talk about being shot five times. Sister, thank you. Thank you for being here. The courageousness in your voice and the tears, so much power. I wish that we as legislators had the courage of you all standing here. Sitting here with us today we heard from a disabled woman, a disabled woman who was yanked from her car and thrown on the floor and made bloody and incarcerated with other folks who had not been Mirandized. We heard from an expected father who was literally terrorized by ICE agents and lived to tell the story that betrayal is a betrayal, it's a systemic and systematic betrayal, and we need you to survive. We need you and the rest of the American citizens and the folks who are in a process to gain their citizenship during this moment of tyranny, we need you to survive. I am so thankful. In Minnesota, brothers and sisters, just a couple of weeks ago, many of us went out to a hearing to hear from folks. We were able to go to Mrs. Good's memorial site where good Christian folks were reciting the Lord's prayer over and over.
(03:04:28)
We heard from a few of those folks that in Minnesota at night, you hear two things. You hear whistles. You hear whistles and you hear screams. The whistles are coming from the thousands of volunteers who have answered the call from their Lord to bear witness. The screams are coming from the children, coming from the mothers and fathers who are being drug from their homes, from men and women who have sworn to abide by the Constitution. What you all have done here today, and I know it's been a long day, but you are bearing witness. Your words are sacred. Your experiences should hallow the halls of these hallowed halls. Now, Ms. Rahman, your testimony did something to my spirit, as all of your testimonies did.
(03:05:18)
I came to Congress as a disabled woman to consistently humanize our experiences in an abled world. Thank you. You represent millions of people today who have had interactions with law enforcement and were dehumanized. Just one question, but before the question, again, my deep gratitude for you, Ms. Good's family and all of you all have come here today. But my question, Ms. Rahman, is for folks with disabilities, now that you become a part of a tribe of folks who have been disrespected and almost murdered by law enforcement, what would you like to lift up? Your testimony was beautiful today, but being a disabled advocate, being an engineer, being a scholarly now voice all over the country, as a disabled woman, I'm wondering if you could give us a few more seconds about your experience and what that means for disabled Americans.
Aliya Rahman (03:06:19):
Disabled Americans have great worth in this country, and anyone who does not identify as disabled should probably be aware that any one of you can become temporarily or permanently disabled in your life, and you will need the wisdom from folks who have been having this conversation. Thank you very much for your work also.
Representative Simon (03:06:42):
I appreciate you more than you know. Thank you. Thank you all.
Senator Garcia (03:06:48):
Thank you, Representative. Next is Representative Min.
Representative Min (03:06:51):
Thank you, Ranking Member Garcia. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal for hosting this hearing. And I think it's just very unfortunate that not a single person from the other side of the aisle is here at this hearing because they are also needing to hear your powerful testimony. They are the ones that I think need to grapple with their consciences. I want to thank you for taking the time to share these deeply traumatic stories, particularly the three witnesses in the middle. What we've heard today was so deeply disturbing and shocking, and to think that this could take place in America is just very, very surreal. But this is also very inevitable because for now a year almost, we have been seeing a escalation of lawlessness and violence that is being permeated.
(03:07:32)
It is being fomented and encouraged by the top levels of this administration. And we saw this happen last year in Southern California. And Mr. Rascon, you're just to the north of us in Orange County. We saw lots of incidents in Orange County, in Los Angeles. There's a gentleman named Narciso Barranco who was videotaped. It went viral because he was being punched in the head repeatedly. He's a gardener who'd been in the United States for almost 30 years, the father of three Marines. And as with you all, the administration followed a well-worn playbook of trying to blame the victim. They accused him of being a domestic terrorist, of trying to attack the ICE agents with a weed whacker until that narrative no longer could withstand the videos that clearly contradicted it. And unfortunately, what we saw here, Mr. Rascon, Ms. Martinez, is that same playbook.
(03:08:24)
And I just want to be clear, you were confronted by mask agents who approached you threatening you with guns drawn and you, in your case, Mr. Rascon, your father, drove the car away. Ms. Martinez, you drove the car away. And in both instances, it's clear you were trying to flee. You were not trying to hurt anyone. You were not driving at agents. And yet they fired gunshots both times. You were hit five times, seven bullet wounds. And I'm so sorry to hear that, Ms. Martinez, but they blamed you. And that is exactly the same playbook that they followed with Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretti. And like my colleague, Representative Simon, I had the privilege of going to Minnesota to hear from local law enforcement, to hear from activists, and they shared the same story. And what is happening right now is that they are gaslighting us here in America.
(03:09:17)
They're trying to lie about what's happening, even when they have videos directly contradicting that. Now, some of us have raised concerns for a long time that ICE is hiring the wrong type of person. And I know there's been a lot of emphasis on training. Mr. Stoughton, you talk a lot about the need for better training, and I agree with that. And yet what we've seen over and over is stuff that I don't think training would cure. We see violence perpetrated by people in ways that dehumanize their victims. And so I just want to ask you a few questions, Mr. Stoughton. You've seen a lot of these videos. Is it safe to say that walking up to someone and punching them in the face because you don't like what they're saying, is that something that's acceptable for law enforcement to do?
Mr. Stoughton (03:09:55):
Absolutely not.
Representative Min (03:09:57):
Is that a crime?
Mr. Stoughton (03:09:58):
Yes.
Representative Min (03:09:59):
What about pepper spraying somebody who's standing with a sign you don't like, is that appropriate for law enforcement to do?
Mr. Stoughton (03:10:04):
No.
Representative Min (03:10:05):
Is that a crime?
Mr. Stoughton (03:10:06):
Yes.
Representative Min (03:10:07):
And if you just decide to tackle someone, blindside them in the street, they're not resisting arrests, they're not doing anything criminal, is that a crime?
Mr. Stoughton (03:10:14):
Yes, it very well could be.
Representative Min (03:10:16):
And should that be subject to an investigation?
Mr. Stoughton (03:10:19):
Absolutely.
Representative Min (03:10:20):
Now, we have not had any investigations until the murder of Alex Pretti. In no instance that I'm aware of, and we've written letters to DHS asking some of these questions, have we once gotten any responses indicating that any investigations are underway with any of these victims? So Ms. Martinez, Ms. Rahman, and Mr. Rascon, I just want to ask you a few last questions. Did anyone from the government ever apologize to you? You can just say no.
Mr. Rascon (03:10:47):
No.
Representative Min (03:10:48):
No? Or yes or no?
Aliya Rahman (03:10:50):
No.
Ms. Martinez (03:10:51):
No.
Representative Min (03:10:52):
When you were in the hospital, Ms. Martinez, did anyone ever visit you from the government?
Ms. Martinez (03:11:00):
Only FBI and ICE agents.
Representative Min (03:11:01):
Kristi Noem, nobody else who called you a domestic terrorist, they didn't come visit you?
Ms. Martinez (03:11:04):
No.
Representative Min (03:11:04):
No apologies, no visits, no regrets apparently. I want to apologize to you on behalf of the United States government. This behavior is criminal. We need to prosecute it. Every single person in Congress upon taking office takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. We need Republicans to step up right now and honor that oath. With that, I yield back.
Senator Garcia (03:11:27):
Thank you. Representative Tlaib.
Representative Tlaib (03:11:27):
Thank you so much, Chairman. I come from the city of Detroit, the most beautiful blackest city in the country, so I want to keep it real. Can I blow this? Is that going to be a problem? And this. That's all of our residents are using right now to protect themselves in the streets. Do you understand? This is what they're using. Whistles and their camera. I want to show you. Let's see what this fascist army disguised as some sort of federal agency is using.
Rep. Rashida Tlaib (03:12:00):
This is the home of Tiana and Garrison. This is their private home. Let's see what they have, and I want Seth to pay attention to this because I know you probably read about all the toys that they have. US Immigration, Customs enforcement agents, I'm not talking about Border Patrol, they got stuff too, are equipped with range of tactical weapons, including AR-15 rifles. Options such as pepper spray launchers. I don't know what that is. Taser devices. They also utilize military grade tactical gear, including camouflage of pouches and specialized rifle attachments. They have ammunition rifles like endless amount attached to their body. They have night vision and thermal cameras on drones, armored vehicles. I even heard, Martin, at your house, they were using drones on your house. Contractors like Quantonic, you know who I'm talking about, Qantonica, whatever tactical and these groups provide these materials. They make money giving us this stuff.
(03:13:01)
Remember that. And every day they keep any of our immigrant neighbors who are asylee seekers, some of them are literally just waiting their turn to be able to get that pathway to citizenship, they're making money off of our babies being imprisoned. There's a lot of equipment here and military gear here, Seth. A lot of weapons here. For whistles and cameras and our disabled residents, people going to drop off donations to their church, a father, it's a lot of weapons. You think this belongs in the streets within this federal agency right now with everything that's happened?
Seth (03:13:45):
While I do think there's a potential role for specialized equipment and training, I do not see the role-
Rep. Rashida Tlaib (03:13:52):
Well, my friends in the veterans, they said, "This is stuff we use in Afghanistan and Iraq, Rashida." I didn't agree with that either. Those are a lot of folks that were innocent lives, civilians impacted. But this kind of stuff in war zones. Seth?
Seth (03:14:05):
It does not belong in day to day.
Rep. Rashida Tlaib (03:14:06):
Look how many people showed up to her house? They're unhinged. And I just have to be honest with my colleagues. They're not here to listen to this, but I'm going to tell you all, it's not a slogan, "Abolish ICE". My residents in Southwest Detroit been telling us for years. For years, they've been telling us. Thinking of that father, I saw the emotion that Martin, especially Ms. Martinez had, seeing that father of two boys being murdered. No one talks about Mr. Gonzalez, as much as they talk about Renee and Alex. And I know they would hate that. But I have to be honest with all of you, all of my colleagues that are not here, they think if we unmask them, they'll stop killing us. They think if we just train them more. But do you know, Seth, that murderer agent, John Ross, that executed Renee, he's been with Border Patrol since 2007, then goes to ICE in 2015.
(03:15:09)
I think he trains people with guns. So it's not more training. This is an agency that was built to terrorize communities and neighborhoods. It is an agency that was created with this culture. It cannot be so called "reformed barriers". They violate their own policies. I saw it in my own neighborhood in 2010 and on. So it doesn't matter who's president, this needs to be dismantled. With that, I yield.
Rep. Robert Garcia (03:15:40):
Thank you. And I believe we have Representative Presley who we can grab a seat wherever she would like and ... There you go. Sure.
Rep. Ayanna Pressley (03:15:54):
Thank you. Last week I traveled to Minneapolis at the invitation of my sister in service and by bond, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar to the Minnesota 5th, a district that I've been to many times doing justice work. I went to bear witness to the trauma that so many communities are being forced to endure. I met residents who have watched rogue, masked agents, detain, deport, and even kill their neighbors in broad daylight, in cold blood, without due process, without care for what their violence leaves behind. Public executions, public terror. Five-year-olds are being detained. I'm thinking of Liam Ramos. A five-year-old child held attention for a week and the over 3,000 other children, whose names we don't know, who remain in detention centers across the country. I'm thinking of his classmates who wrote letters to ICE agents pleading, pleading for mercy, appealing to whatever humanity they hope still existed.
(03:17:13)
I will not accept a system that rips children from safety in the name of "law and order." This is trauma and the witnesses here today live with it. I so look forward to a day when people do not have to relive and weaponize their trauma in order to compel action from their government, but I'm grateful to those who bear their heart for the good of humanity. Each of you have shown immense courage, and it is time for Democrats to show that same courage and fight against fascism. As we negotiate funding for DHS, we have a real opportunity to do more than express concern. We have the chance to reject this campaign of terror and we have a responsibility to do so. As Democrats, we can say we give a damn, but that is not enough if we refuse to act with courage. Requiring agents to remove masks or obtain warrants before entering homes is important, but let's be honest, that is the bare minimum.
(03:18:08)
We can't leave power in the hands of bad actors to decide whether or not to follow the law. We can't make demands of people like Trump and Noem and then hope that they willingly comply. Our constitution doesn't rely on good faith, it demands checks and balances. If we want real change, we must check this administration and rebalance power in the hands of the people where it belongs. Here is a simple fact. People should be allowed to sue ICE agents for violating their rights and killing their loved ones. Period. That should not be controversial for Democrats, Republicans, Independents, or anyone, but there are barriers in the way. Congress must remove these barriers with a two-step legislative fix. Step one, we need to close the loophole. There's currently a loophole in the law that prevents federal officials from being sued under Section 1983, which is a civil rights law protecting constitutional rights.
(03:18:59)
If victims of violence can sue state and local law enforcement, they should also be able to sue federal law enforcement. Step two, we need to abolish qualified immunity. Qualified immunity is an unjust court-invented legal doctrine that says law enforcement misconduct can be excused. That includes violations of constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has expanded qualified immunity to the point where even Clarence Thomas thinks it's gone too far. This accountability two-step is critical to reigning in this extremist administration. During these negotiations on DHS funding, Democrats must prioritize giving power to the people to protect their rights. Mr. Romanucci, you are the lawyer representing the good family during this unimaginable, painful moment. You've spent decades litigating excessive force cases. How does qualified immunity impact your ability to seek accountability for your clients?
Antonio Romanucci (03:20:03):
Thank you, Congresswoman. Qualified immunity is a tremendous barrier. It's a hurdle to achieve civil justice and accountability for people who want to sue police officers. I liken it very much to a Get Out of Jail card on a Monopoly board because unless it's clearly established that the officer violated a law, they get a pass, they get qualified immunity and the lawsuit is dismissed. You cannot achieve that. By your suggestion, which is a good one, we're aligned, by abolishing qualified immunity and making the employer, the agency, the law enforcement agency responsible for the police officer's actions, we have accountability. We have a system of justice that would be fair and gets rid of that hurdle.
Rep. Ayanna Pressley (03:20:55):
Thank you. We need laws that empower families like those that have testified before us today. We should use these negotiations to rebalance power, to restore accountability, and to protect the people that we were actually sent here to serve. I yield back.
Rep. Robert Garcia (03:21:13):
Thank you. And I want to thank you all first. Our witnesses, just thank you for your courage, your testimony, for being here. I know it was difficult. I thank you for answering all the questions, and I want to thank all the members of the House and the Senate. We had a large participation today for joining us, and so thank you very much.
Rep. Ayanna Pressley (03:21:34):
Thank you. Thank you for the balloon. Thank you guys. That was incredible. What did you say?
Speaker 6 (03:22:14):
What do we grab?
Rep. Ayanna Pressley (03:22:24):
Just the nameplates and then grabbing the papers.
Speaker 6 (03:22:26):
I'll grab the names.
Rep. Ayanna Pressley (03:22:30):
Okay.