Dr. Rand Paul (00:00):
… that the department and its components engage in. In other words, we do so much stuff and we're so big we can't describe it for you. But if we can't describe what we have, we got a problem. In plain language, the DHS had really no idea. Think about it. An agency commanding over $110 billion annually can't account for its own activities. This is not just bureaucratic incompetence, it's emblematic of a deeper issue, an agency unsure of its own boundaries and commitments. How can an agency fulfill its mission or earn the American people's trust if it doesn't even know the extent of its own operations?
(00:36)
But the problems don't stop there. Instead of focusing on critical threats like securing the southwest border, DHS has shifted its gaze inward, targeting law-abiding Americans. DHS, under the Biden administration, has often used its vast powers to target Americans exercising their constitutional rights. It's become an agency more focused on policing speech, monitoring social media, and labeling political dissent as "domestic terrorism" than addressing genuine security threats. While cartels traffic people and fentanyl across an unguarded border, DHS has spent its time and resources creating partisan disinformation boards, spying on Americans through invasive surveillance technologies. The mission drift is dangerous. Every dollar spent monitoring law-abiding citizens is a dollar not spent securing the homeland. Every moment spent targeting political opponents is a moment not addressing real threats like border security, cyber attacks, or the rising influence of adversarial nation states. The priorities of DHS have been deeply distorted, and the American people are paying the price.
(01:45)
And what about DHS's response to COVID-19, arguably one of the greatest threats to homeland security? The answer is clear: nothing. They knew nothing of the origins, they didn't study the issue, and they had no information about gain-of-function research. We've seen firsthand how unchecked government overreach leads to waste, fraud, and abuse. We cannot let DHS become yet another agency that operates behind a veil of secrecy. The American people deserve transparency, accountability, and leadership that puts national security and liberty hand in hand, not at odds with each other.
(02:21)
Today we gather to consider the nomination of Governor Kristi Noem to serve as the Secretary of Department of Homeland Security. I hope this hearing will set the tone for this committee's work in the new Congress to restore transparency and accountability to an executive branch that has grown unchecked. Governor Noem, if confirmed, you will lead an agency that has lost its way. Your record as governor of South Dakota and a former member of Congress demonstrates your willingness to make difficult decisions in the face of significant political pressure, and to put the interest of American people first. You have the opportunity today to address how your background and vision will translate to leading one of the most critical and scrutinized departments in the federal government.
(03:04)
This is the first of many consequential moments for this committee as we renew our commitment to the constitutional oversight role that Congress must assert. I have no doubt that the nominee we'll consider in the coming weeks and months that you will be up for the challenge. Governor Noem, thank you for your willingness to serve, and I yield to the Ranking Member for his opening remarks.
Gary Peters (03:25):
Thank you, Chairman Paul. Governor Noem, it's great to see you here today, and I want to first thank you for making yourself available not only to the entire committee, but to the discussions that we had in my office. Going perhaps a little more in-depth on the issues than is possible in a hearing like this and having that open and frank conversation is something that I appreciate. Also appreciate your willingness to spend time with committee staff as we conduct our due diligence and review of your qualifications and the background to serve as secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.
(03:57)
As our third-largest federal agency, with more than 240,000 employees and an operating budget of more than $100 billion, the Department of Homeland Security requires strong, stable, and principled leadership. Our nation faces serious threats and security challenges, from securing our borders and combating terrorism to preventing cyber attacks and responding to our nation's increasing number of natural disasters, and DHS is the first line of defense in all of those areas. I appreciated the conversations we had at today's hearing, where we discussed the importance of ensuring that our nation's borders are safe and secure. And while we must address the significant challenges we face on the southern border, we also need to ensure that there are sufficient resources to secure our northern border, something I know you're very familiar with as the governor of your state, including building out our Northern Border Mission Center.
(04:55)
This is especially important in my home state of Michigan, which has two of the nation's busiest border crossings, and we're going to be adding another span shortly, the Gordie Howe International Bridge, which will open later this year. To facilitate the lawful trade and travel out those ports of entry that are absolutely critical to our economy, I've worked on legislation to hire additional US Customs and Border Protection officers to meet increased staffing demands. We must secure our borders, but we also know it is well time passed to streamline our immigration and our asylum process as well.
(05:33)
In addition to border security, DHS is responsible for addressing many threats that face our nation. Just a few weeks ago, unfortunately, Americans were shocked to see two horrific incidents in New Orleans and Las Vegas, a deadly reminder that terrorism and radicalization remain very real and ongoing threats to our homeland. In my role on this committee, I've made combating foreign and domestic terrorism, as well as extremism, a top priority. In this complex environment, it is essential that DHS continue to focus on all terrorism threats, track and report data to Congress and to the American people, and coordinate between all components to ensure the department is effectively addressing all types of terrorist threats.
(06:18)
We've also seen that persistent cyber attacks are still a very serious threat. In fact, an increasing threat. A recent attack from Chinese-based hackers infiltrated the Treasury Department, on top of ongoing Salt Typhoon hack that comprised numerous US telecommunications companies. There's no question that DHS must continue to lead the way in protecting our networks from foreign adversaries, cyber criminals, and so-called "hacktivists" to prevent cyber attacks from becoming increasingly devastating to our security as well as to our economy.
(06:52)
And finally, the Department of Federal Emergency Management Agency must continue to work hard to address the increasing number of natural disasters affecting our communities as a result of climate change. From violent storms like hurricanes that brought destruction to states across the South, to the devastating wildfires in California, and countless other severe storms and flooding events all across our country, we need leadership at the department that will ensure our nation effectively responds to communities when disaster strikes them.
(07:24)
The safety and security of our nation and the American people depend on the department's ability to effectively address these wide-ranging threats. So, Governor Noem, thank you again for your willingness to serve in this incredibly important position, and thank you for being here today. I look forward to having a comprehensive discussion about how you intend to lead this critical department through a series of national security challenges, if indeed you are confirmed.
Dr. Rand Paul (07:52):
This morning, Governor Noem will be introduced by Majority Leader John Thune and Senator Kevin Cramer. Senator Thune, you're recognized.
John Thune (08:00):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member Peters, and members of the committee. I'm very pleased to be able to be here today to introduce South Dakota's outstanding governor who has been nominated by President Trump to serve as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. I've known Kristi Noem for a long time. She has a very compelling personal and family story, which inspired her entrance into the public arena, and I'm sure you'll hear a little bit more about that from her. But I've observed as she has gone through the state legislature as a leader there, state House of Representatives, the US House of Representatives, where she was our only member from South Dakota representing our state's interests there for eight years, and now currently as South Dakota's governor, and I think she brings to this job a number of things that are going to be really essential.
(08:54)
And one is obviously a skill set when it comes to managing hard problems. She led our state through the pandemic, managed what were extraordinary circumstances all across this country in a way that made South Dakota, frankly, a magnet for people from other states who were trying to flee or get away from some of the heavy-handed requirements that were imposed in other states around the country. Our state stayed open, stayed free, and that was largely due to her leadership.
(09:26)
And I would say too, as we tackle what is an enormously complicated and hard issue, which is our southern border, it's going to require a skill set which I believe she possesses, it's going to require a tremendous amount of persistence and determination, which I think she has, an enormous amount of energy, which she has in abundance. And frankly, what I would say is just absolute toughness. It's going to take some tough and hard leadership to get things back in order.
(09:55)
And I want to refer to something she said in her state of the state address earlier this week to South Dakotans, and that is that, "Over the past four years, we've seen a complete disregard for the security of our borders and the safety of the American people, to say nothing for the rule of law. Chaos at our southern border and the Biden administration has left our country vulnerable to a whole host of security concerns, from terrorist entries to cross-border criminal activity like drug trafficking." I think it's well documented, and I think it's high time that it gets fixed, and we have somebody nominated by the President that I believe has the capabilities, the qualities, the experience, and again, frankly, the determination and toughness to solve what is a very, very tough issue, and one which is desperately in need of solutions.
(10:41)
So, I'm pleased to be able to be here today to introduce our great governor and to thank you for your consideration. I look forward to this committee acting on her nomination, and I look forward to voting for her on the floor of the United States Senate to be the next Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Rand Paul (11:03):
Senator Cramer?
Kevin Cramer (11:04):
Thank you, Chairman Paul, Ranking Member Peters, colleagues. Once again, I find myself in full agreement with the majority leader. It's a good place to be in our business.
(11:17)
So, this is a very special opportunity for me, and first thing I want to do is thank nearly all of you. I got into almost every one of your offices with Kristi as her very amateurish sitting senator Sherpa. And the blessing for me was not only to be with my good friend and former colleague, but to learn a lot about this committee that I'm not on and to get an inside view. And Gary, especially learning how we can work together at the northern border and how similar, although very different, Michigan and North Dakota are. So, thank you for your hospitality, you were all very kind to Kristi and to me.
(11:53)
But Kristi is a former colleague. When you're the only member of a body of 435 from an entire state, it's really important to have friends. So together, Kristi and I were two, two out of 435, and if we could get Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska, there'd be five of us that could take on the fight. But I know this. I remember our very first year, my first year, it was not hers, my first year in the House, the unthinkable happened, and the House of Representatives failed to pass a farm bill. And all I can tell you was the least secure homeland person in America was the Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader the next day, when Kristi and I doubled up, and eventually we got a farm bill done.
(12:39)
I say that because we are living at a time, and Senator Peters, you used the words "strong, stable, and principled". I can't think of three better words to describe Kristi Noem than those three words. I would add this. I'm not surprised that President Trump turned to Governor Noem. Securing the homeland is the number one priority, our number one priority, our number one constitutional priority, as a Congress. And it is for sure the number one priority of the voters in the last election. And it is the number one priority for President Donald Trump. So, naturally he would say, "Hmm, who is the toughest, smartest, most capable protector that I know? I think I'd like to find a ranch woman, mom, grandmother, who knows how to protect her own." And when you grow up on a ranch in the prairies or the West, nobody else is going to look out for your critters. No one else is protecting your family. You do it.
(13:51)
And she brings this skill set, as Senator Thune said, as a leader, as a legislator, as a member of Congress, as a governor, a very important… By the way, when I get into the room with other governors, Senator Hassan, I might as well have just left, because I was not part of a club where I don't belong. But anyway, it was very, very rich, because there's an alliance there that's really, really important. And so for me, it's just a really special opportunity to be able to be here with her and to have had this time in your offices introducing her to you.
(14:26)
But I want to wrap up with this, because last night I received a very touching letter, unsolicited by either Kristi or me, from the tribal chairwoman from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, which straddles North Dakota and South Dakota. They don't really care who wins the South Dakota State/North Dakota State football game, but they do care about their reservation. And Chairwoman Alkire sent me this letter. Standing Rock is the home of Sitting Bull, in case you were wondering about the credentials of their ability to protect the homeland.
(15:03)
I'll just read a few words. "On multiple occasions, Governor Noem has invited the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe to her table at the South Dakota State Capitol to enter into meaningful discussions." That's what I witnessed when she came to your offices. And Janet writes, "It is of great excitement and enthusiasm that our North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum will be at the helm of the Department of Interior, and my hopes remain high that you will feel the same about Governor Kristi Noem at the helm of the Department of Homeland Security. These two governors understand the needs in Indian country, and what words like tribal sovereignty, jurisdiction, and consultation mean to the Indigenous people." Speaks volumes to her leadership and to her character. It's my honor to support her, and turn it over to her.
Dr. Rand Paul (15:55):
Thank you for those great introductions. The committee has also received several statements in support of Governor Noem's nomination, including a letter from 22 fellow governors, the International Association of Firefighters, and six other organizations. Without objection, these letters of support will be made part of the hearing record. And I know our senators are going to have to go, but thank you for coming and doing those introductions.
(16:22)
It's the practice of this committee to swear in witnesses. Governor Noem, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Kristi Noem (16:37):
I will.
Dr. Rand Paul (16:40):
Governor Noem, you are now recognized for your opening statement.
Kristi Noem (16:47):
Thank you, and good morning Chairman Paul, Ranking Member Peters, and the distinguished members of this committee. I'm honored to appear before all of you today as the nominee for the Secretary of Homeland Security. I want to thank President-elect Donald J. Trump for his confidence in my leadership, and the people of South Dakota for their fantastic support throughout my time in public service. I would also like to express my sincere gratitude to Senator Cramer. He has been an invaluable resource to me throughout this process, and given me much wisdom, as well as insight, into the thoughts and the procedures of the Senate and this body. And I'd also like to express my gratitude to Senator Thune, the Majority Leader of this esteemed body. He's been an advisor to me for many years, as well as a friend, and I'm so grateful for the generous support of these two men and their willingness to be here this morning to speak on my behalf, and to introduce me to this committee.
(17:44)
Now, I'm a wife and a mother and a grandmother; a farmer, rancher, businessperson. I've served in our state legislature, in Congress for eight years, and also a governor. I've spent my entire life in rural America. I understand what it means to work hard every single day, and to build a better future for your kids and for all of our communities. I come before you today with a deep sense of responsibility and a humility, as the nominee, to lead the Department of Homeland Security, and also a commitment to the more than 330 Americans who we will work together to help serve and to keep safe and secure in their homes and in their communities.
(18:25)
Now, before I proceed, I want to introduce to you my husband, Bryon, who's here with me today. He is my constant 24/7 reminder of our dedication to public service, and that it's not a solo effort or done alone. He has been a rock by my side, and I appreciate all of his love over so many years. I'm grateful that he's here with me today.
(18:48)
Now, securing our homeland is a serious, sacred trust that must be relentlessly pursued, and can never be taken for granted. Being safe within our borders here in America is critical, and yet Americans feel less safe than they have felt in decades. For the first time in 30 years, more than 40% of Americans are afraid to walk alone at night within a mile of their homes. President-elect Trump is going to change that. I've seen firsthand the challenges and the opportunities facing our great nation. In the 20 years since the Department of Homeland Security was formed, the nature of the threats to our homeland has grown and they've evolved. This department was created in response to the failures of the government that led to the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks, and that reality is not lost on me, especially in the wake of the recent terrorist attacks over New Year's.
(19:43)
Now, I've led South Dakota for the last six years, with a focus every day on making our state safer, stronger, and freer. I've focused every day on making the best decisions, not just for right now, but for generations to come. I've overseen a state budget of over $7 billion, and a state employee workforce of more than 13,000, including more than 7,000 that report directly to the governor. I've addressed important issues like cyber security, human trafficking, drug interdiction, and also natural disasters, the same challenges that are facing so many of you and the people that you represent back home. I've secured our state and supported the rule of law, and if confirmed as the eighth secretary, that is the same approach that I will take to leading the Department of Homeland Security.
(20:32)
As we face the evolving threats of the 21st century, the mission and the success of DHS is more critical than ever. We must be vigilant and proactive and innovative to protect the homeland. The challenges in front of us are extremely significant, and we must secure our borders against illegal trafficking and immigration. We must safeguard our critical infrastructure to make sure that we're protected against cyber attacks, respond to natural disasters, and also terrorism. I firmly believe that we can meet those challenges head on with resolve. Innovation, we can use collaboration with federal and with state partners. And senators, I want your input. Border security must remain a top priority. As a nation, we have the right and the responsibility to secure our borders against those who would do us harm, and we must create a fair and a lawful immigration system that is efficient, and is effective, and that reflects our values.
(21:29)
President Trump was elected with a clear mandate. He needs to achieve this mission, because two-thirds of Americans support his immigration and border policies, including the majority of Hispanic Americans. I was the first governor to send National Guard troops to our southern border when Texas asked for help and when they were being overwhelmed by an unprecedented border crisis. If confirmed as secretary, I'll ensure that our exceptional, extraordinary Border Patrol agents have all the tools and resources and support that they need to carry out their mission effectively. The same is true of my commitment to the outstanding men and women of the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They are responsible for apprehending, detaining, and deporting illegal immigrants, and getting criminal aliens off of our streets and out of the country will help American communities be safer again. The bravery and the dedication of the Border Patrol and ICE are unmatched, and I will restore dignity to their work. The rising threat of cyberattacks also demands our utmost attention, and our critical infrastructure, from energy grids to financial institutions, is under constant attack by foreign adversaries and criminal actors. As secretary, I will prioritize a comprehensive, whole-of-government approach to cybersecurity. In fact, in the coming days, we have to plan bigger, and think faster and smarter. I fully acknowledge that people in Washington D.C. do not have all of the answers, and therefore, I will leverage private-public partnerships, I'll advance cutting-edge, state-of-the-art technologies to protect our nation's digital landscape, and I will have a proven track record of doing this in South Dakota to back me up. I've helped make Dakota State University a global leader in cybersecurity education, because we recognize the need to address this emerging threat. And I will take a proactive approach if given the opportunity to serve as secretary. Now, President-elect Trump has been a tremendous friend to law enforcement over the years, and I will do the same in my role as secretary. As governor, I've worked closely with law enforcement to make South Dakota safer. I've overseen hundreds of state troopers in the South Dakota Highway Patrol, and on several occasions I've convened groups of law enforcement from across our state to address policies that will make our people safer. In fact, while some in this country were attacking law enforcement and defunding them, we took the opposite approach in South Dakota. We recruited law enforcement officers to move to South Dakota, a state that respects their service and their sacrifice, and we revamped our law enforcement training to provide the first ever state-led tribal-focused law enforcement training academy. I'm very proud of the work that we've done in cooperation with our tribes to help make their communities more safe.
(24:24)
And we must remain vigilant against terrorism and against others who wish to do us harm to our country and to our great people. I'll ensure that our intelligence and our law enforcement agencies are working together hand-in-hand, that they're fully equipped to detect, prevent, and respond to threats from radical ideologies and foreign adversaries. This requires resources, coordination, and collaboration across all levels of government. And once again, I will seek your wisdom and I will seek your input into the months ahead. For the sake of the people that we both represent, we have to get this right. Now, I recognize that homeland security isn't just about prevention, but it's also about resilience. When disasters strike, as we know they will, the Department of Homeland Security must be ready to respond swiftly, efficiently, and effectively to protect the lives and the property of Americans. As governor, I've worked with FEMA in response to a dozen natural disasters in South Dakota. These have included historic floods, tornadoes, blizzards, wildfires, a derecho, and even a global pandemic. As secretary, I will enhance our emergency preparedness and strengthen FEMA's capabilities, and we will ensure that no community is left behind, and that life-saving services, like electricity and water, are quickly restored.
(25:46)
As secretary, I will oversee the Secret Service, an agency that is in serious need of reforms. We all saw the threats to President-elect Trump last year and the consequences of failure. Now, that should never happen again, and I've worked closely with my own gubernatorial protective detail, and I'm familiar with what works and what doesn't work, and I'll bring that experience towards strengthening the Secret Service once again.
(26:12)
I'm committed to working with this committee, with Congress, and with the dedicated men and women of the Department of Homeland Security to fulfill our mission. And together, we can ensure that the United States remains a beacon of freedom, safety, and security for generations to come. So, thank you for the opportunity and the honor to appear before you today. Thank you for the meetings and the time that you took in your office to discuss the department and what we can do in the future to make the American homeland much more secure. I look forward to your questions, and I hope to earn your trust, and hopefully also your vote, as we embark on this critical work together. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Dr. Rand Paul (26:51):
Thank you, Governor Noem. We will now proceed to questions. Each member will have seven minutes. We will have a vote that will start at 10:00 AM, but we're going to continue the hearing and keep people in line; as you come and go to vote, we'll keep the hearing moving. I want to be clear from the outset that we will not tolerate any disruptions. The Capitol Police have been asked to escort anyone immediately from the room if they disrupt the hearing.
(27:17)
This is a standard question, Governor Noem, that we ask of all nominees. Governor Noem, do you agree without reservation to comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted Committee of Congress if you are confirmed?
Kristi Noem (27:32):
Yes, Mr. Chairman,
Dr. Rand Paul (27:34):
I'm going to reserve the rest of my time for my questions and go to Senator Peters.
Gary Peters (27:37):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Noem, the DHS secretary has many competing priorities, as you well know, and you outlined, certainly, in your opening comments, from our borders to wildfires to cyber attacks. But as you and I discussed at length, and I appreciate you bringing it up in your opening comments as well, we do have a northern border in addition to a southern border, that's absolutely essential that the DHS has the resources necessary at the northern border to carry out its mission, both between ports of entry and all along the border. In fact, we've seen an increase in unauthorized crossings in recent years at the northern border.
(28:18)
So, my question for you is, if confirmed, do you commit to ensuring, along with the southern border, that the northern border is sufficiently staffed to maintain its security and robust trade between the US and its neighbors, including at the Gordie Howe International Bridge in my home state of Michigan, have the resources they need to facilitate trade, while keeping Americans safe?
Kristi Noem (28:39):
Yes, Senator Peters, you and I talked about this in your office, and also with Senator Slotkin as well, how important it is to continue to remain focused on our northern border, and all borders and ports of entry that the United States has. I think there's been some universal concern from some of the committee members that as we focus on the southern border and what we're seeing, as far as the invasion there and the amount of people crossing, that the northern border would lose focus. But that will not happen, and we will ensure that our borders are secure, and we're addressing all threats that may come in from any direction. And also with the bridge as well and staffing up on that, that as well, and I've assured Senator Slotkin as well that our focus is there to make sure that it is staffed appropriately.
Gary Peters (29:22):
Very good. And as we discussed, the department is diligently working to stand up the Northern Border Mission Center at Selfridge Air National Guard Base in Michigan, following the authorization and funding that I was able to secure in the last Congress. This center is critical to supporting the Department's northern border security missions and addressing evolving threats. So, quick question: if confirmed, do you commit to working with me to fully build out the Northern Border Mission Center?
Kristi Noem (29:49):
Yes, Senator, we will look forward, and I look forward, to working with you to ensure that that is a priority, and that it's adequately resourced, and working with Congress and senators to make sure that we have what we need to make sure that that mission for that base is fully fulfilled.
Gary Peters (30:05):
Great. Thank you. On New Year's, we witnessed two incidents that reminded us that terrorism and extremism remain serious threats to all Americans. Both DHS and the FBI have consistently said that the most persistent threat to the homeland is from US-based individuals or small groups radicalized by a variety of ideologies, from white supremacy to ISIS to al-Qaeda. We must certainly continue to focus on people who are radicalized here in the United States with the intent of terrorizing our communities. So, my question for you, ma'am, is how do you plan to address this threat of US-based terrorists?
Kristi Noem (30:45):
Senator, this is a grave concern for our country, as we all agree that the number one threat to our homeland security is the southern border. In fact, since Joe Biden has been president, we've seen 382 individuals that have come over that border that are on the terrorist watch list. I, behind me, have the governor of Louisiana with me, and he and his state and people in this country went through a horrific event on New Year's Day, and one that we never want to see repeated again. But this governor behind me is concerned also about an upcoming event, which is the Super Bowl, coming shortly, which we need to do all that we can to work together, that he has the reassurance that the federal government, that the Department of Homeland Security, is prepared to help him protect that event, and to keep people safe while they are there.
(31:33)
Those 382 terrorists are known terrorists that have come over our border. We don't know necessarily where they are because of what has been happening under Joe Biden's policies. Now, President Trump obviously won the last election with a clear mandate, and that mandate is for the American people to secure that border. But also we need to focus on domestic terrorism and homegrown terrorism, which you just referenced in your question. Homegrown
Kristi Noem (32:00):
Homegrown terrorism is on the rise. We see more and more incidents of people that are US citizens that have become radicalized. And knowing when people are leaving the country and coming back and changes to their behaviors and what their actions are is critically important.
(32:14)
So the resources that the Department of Homeland Security has needs to be utilized as far as identifying those threats and being proactive to prevent them, but also protecting civil rights and liberties in that process, and making sure that the department is on mission to do what it was called to do, why it was created, and what authorities that Congress and the Senate has given them.
(32:35)
My hope is that Governor Landry and his staff and his people and the people that attend the Super Bowl know that the Department of Homeland Security is their partner, is on watch to protect them and to keep that event safe. I hope all Americans know that leadership has consequences. I hope that we can get through and get your support for this nomination and get confirmed quickly so that we can address the threats that we currently face and make sure we don't have any repeats of the day that we saw just starting this year on New Year's Day.
Gary Peters (33:07):
In the last two years, we have seen increasingly aggressive and expansive cyber attacks against our federal agencies. Just last month, Chinese hackers infiltrated the Department of Treasury and stole potentially thousands of unclassified documents. So given these concerning trends by the PRC to hold our federal networks' hostage, do you believe that federal agencies should be required to implement cybersecurity upgrades and maintain the highest cybersecurity standards to protect sensitive or classified data and US citizen information as well?
Kristi Noem (33:45):
Well, Senator, the mission of CISA, which is the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Agency, the mission of it is to hunt and harden. It's to find those bad actors and help work with local and state infrastructure, critical infrastructure entities so that they can help them be prepared for such cyber attacks and that they can make sure that they're hardening their systems to protect them in the future, recognizing the vulnerabilities that they have.
(34:10)
CISA has gotten far off mission. They're using their resources in ways that was never intended. The misinformation and disinformation that they have stuck their toe into and meddled with should be refocused back onto what their job is, and that is to support critical infrastructure and to help our local and small businesses and critical infrastructure at the state level to have the resources and be prepared for those cyber attacks that they will face.
(34:38)
Salt Typhoon was a campaign of espionage by the PRC in China against our telecoms where large amount of data was stolen and taken, and people's private information was taken as well. And we've also seen China and the PRC go after our critical infrastructure with the Volt Typhoon hack, and that was extremely dangerous because there was no reason for them to do that, just to steal people's data and information.
(35:04)
The reason for them to go after that was to control our critical infrastructure for the ability to see if they could shut down a water plant, a utility company. And that was to cripple our country. So these threats are real. CISA needs to be much more effective, smaller, more nimble to really fulfill their mission, which is to hunt and to help harden our nation's critical infrastructure.
Gary Peters (35:30):
Thank you.
Kristi Noem (35:30):
Thank you.
Senator Johnson (35:31):
Senator Scott.
Senator Scott (35:35):
Governor, congratulations on your nomination.
Kristi Noem (35:37):
Thank you.
Senator Scott (35:38):
I think you're going to do a great job.
Kristi Noem (35:40):
Thank you.
Senator Scott (35:40):
I think it's great that you're a governor and you bring that expertise to the table. So I just went through the campaign to get reelected, and it was after the Butler shooting. I had asked people at all my events. I say, "Raise your hand if you think the acting director of the Secret Service is going to tell us what happened." Not one person. I said, "What about Mayorkas? He's running HHS, what do you think, or Homeland Security. What do you think?" I said, "How about Christopher Wray, head of the FBI?" Not one person. Can you just talk about the importance of transparency and accountability in government and how you're going to bring that to the table?
Kristi Noem (36:23):
Yeah. Senator, Scott, thank you for that question because that's what I have found across the country as well, and I know it's certainly true in my home state of South Dakota, is that people don't trust the federal government. They don't trust our leadership and this current administration that's in the White House right now to tell them the truth, to tell them the truth about what the threats really are about our agencies and departments when there are failures, addressing them and fixing it.
(36:45)
The Secret Service is one of those perfect examples. They need leadership that understands why that Secret Service was created and what it needs to do. There's two elements really that the Secret Service is tasked with, and that is protective detail and then also investigations. Yet we see investigators within the Secret Service out there investigating antiquities and other things that are off mission when they should be focused on making sure we're addressing national security events with the protocols that are necessary and protecting the individuals that they're charged with and getting that skill set and training that are necessary. That's been compromised by not having enough people there and being adequately staffed and resourced.
(37:25)
But frankly, the leadership hasn't been honest about talking about it. We saw this with the drones over New Jersey as well, the federal government not answering the questions from the public. And when they finally got a straight answer out of President Trump, they felt reassured that somebody recognized that this was something they were questioning and that they deserved answers.
(37:45)
My goal and my mission is to build trust. We will undertake a large job and a large duty that we have to fulfill, that the American people expect us to do by securing our border to make sure that our nation is a nation with borders or we're no nation at all, and that we are making sure that those criminal actors that are perpetuating violence in our communities and in our cities and towns and states are removed from this country, that there's consequences for breaking the law in our country again.
(38:14)
There has to be consequences because when Americans break the law, there's consequences. And why would we ever allow someone to come in from another country and not have consequences or allow them to continue to go forward and to commit rape and murders and other break other laws that endanger our society? So we've had over 13,000 murders that are loose in this country that have come over that border. We've had almost 16,000 rapists and sexual assault perpetuators that are loose in this country right now. 425,000 plus people have criminal convictions that are here illegally in this country that our current administration's doing nothing to round them up and get them out of our country.
(38:59)
We will be doing that immediately, and that will be the priority, and that is one of the reasons that today the American people have lost their trust. President Trump will build it back and know that their federal government is accountable to them and is working to put America first again.
Senator Scott (39:14):
So Joe Biden completely opened on our southern border and dismantled our entire immigration system. As a former governor, I know that when the federal government policies are broken and failing Americans, you see the impacts in your state just like I did when I was a governor, and you take the steps necessary to protect the families in your state. I know you've done that.
(39:32)
One thing you did is you talked about before you sent troops our National Guard to the southern border. Can you talk more about how Biden's open border policy has affected your state and communities and the role your state resources placed in helping secure the border?
Kristi Noem (39:45):
We certainly have seen the effects in South Dakota that many of your states did. And I would say every state has seen the effects of an open border in the policies that have been under the Biden administration. We saw increased crime, but we also saw increased drug activity. We saw cartel in their affiliates moving into our state to proliferate trafficking, and we saw people being victimized and a lack of accountability with the federal government.
(40:10)
So when Texas was addressing the situation and asked other governors for help, we sent help. I know many of the other governors at the time were sending law enforcement, but I made the decision that at that time that it was more appropriate to send the National Guard that our National Guard could be activated under Title 32 and sent to assist another state from the invasion that was happening and because the National Guard is trained for just such a mission.
(40:36)
Because of this invasion, that it is a war zone down there with what they are going to see, the threats that they would see and that they are trained specifically to interact with other agencies, the National Guard is used to falling in with other agencies and cooperating with them and could do that seamlessly, and their families and their communities are normalized to them being deployed.
(40:59)
So we have in South Dakota deployed our National Guard to the southern border eight different times. Two of them were federal deployments that the Biden administration sent them down there. One was to send our Lakota helicopters, which were used for surveillance in the drug interdiction that was going on down there. But six other times, I sent them under state activation to partner with Texas and other states in securing our southern border. They did security operations. They also did building of the wall and partnered with Texas recognizing the failures of the federal government.
(41:31)
The failures of the federal government are significant, and we've seen our families and communities devastated by those effects, by the drug epidemic, by the trafficking that's going on. They increased crime. And we recognize that just because the federal government wasn't doing their job, we could not fail our state. And I needed to protect the people of South Dakota. And the people of South Dakota were overwhelmingly supportive of these deployments and very proud of our National Guard.
Senator Scott (41:56):
When I was governor of Florida, there was a terrorist hack in Paris by Syrian refugees. So President Obama was president, and I said, "I'd like to know if you're going to send refugees to my state that you give us some background on them." I assume you vetted them and tell us what's going on. You have to tell me, but you ought to tell our state law enforcement and our local law enforcement, that they said, "Go jump in the lake." [inaudible 00:42:21] meaner than that, but they said, "You have no rights as a governor," which had made no sense. We had over 70,000 people come here after Afghanistan on planes into this country completely unvetted. They've never given our governors any information. So would you change that?
Kristi Noem (42:39):
Yes. The communication between states and the federal government has been absolutely broken, and that's what I love about this committee, is you do have governors sitting on this committee that have been in that role as a commander in chief and have the responsibility for being the CEOs of their state.
(42:55)
It's a different perspective than serving. I served in Congress too, and both are extremely important, and they're just different in that responsibility that weighs on your shoulder. I often told folks that that is the thing that most times if something was going to keep me up at night, it was the responsibility that I had being commander in chief, recognizing the decisions that I made. And I'm sure you had this feeling as well, Senator Scott, as governor that impacted those families, those soldiers. And it impacted their communities when we pulled them out and the importance of that.
(43:26)
And when they were bringing refugees into the country, I as well communicated that to the federal government. They were bringing refugees, and I asked how they were vetted, how we were working with their home countries to find out who they really were, what their intentions were and why they were coming to the United States, and received no information from this administration that that vetting process was being done, that we knew where they're going.
(43:48)
In fact, they kept us in the dark and didn't communicate to us even what states and where those refugees were being placed. So that is something that we need to change when we have programs that fall under the purview of the Department of Homeland Security. There needs to be communication especially with the governor so that we can coordinate to ensure that it's the right thing for that state.
Senator Scott (44:09):
Thank you.
Senator Johnson (44:10):
Senator Hassan.
Senator Hassan (44:13):
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And welcome, Governor Noem. I really appreciate you being here. Welcome to your family as well.
Kristi Noem (44:19):
Thank you.
Senator Hassan (44:20):
And families do share in this kind of public service, and we appreciate them very much. As we discussed at our meeting last month, as a former governor, I appreciate the important responsibilities that governors have to ensure the safety and security of their communities, including by managing public safety and emergency agencies.
(44:41)
And I will say that, in many ways, I agree with some of the things that Senator Scott just said about improving communication between the Department of Homeland Security and governors around who is being sent to states. It's a critical issue and something that I was frustrated by when I was governor. So I look forward to hearing more today about your priorities if confirmed about how your experience as governor would help you run the Department of Homeland Security.
(45:14)
Let me just start by following up with a question that Senator Peters had also touched on. We have recently, in New Hampshire, seen a dramatic increase in unauthorized border crossings at the northern border. And when I was at the northern border recently, law enforcement told me about the need for more personnel and resources. We still don't have cell phone coverage in a lot of the stretch of our northern border. I've worked with Senator Kramer on bipartisan legislation to strengthen our northern border strategy because it's clear more support is needed. So Governor, if you're confirmed, would you deploy additional full-time personnel and upgrade equipment along the northern border
Kristi Noem (45:57):
Senator, I enjoyed our meeting that we had and you identifying the northern border issues that are going on, the lack of security and the lack of technologies that you really need to cover, some of the landscapes that are there very different than the southern border, some just as equally challenging but all need to be addressed.
(46:14)
So I definitely will be working with you to ensure that our northern border is adequately resourced as well, and we do have to have the resources in order to be successful.
Senator Hassan (46:25):
Right.
Kristi Noem (46:25):
That's something I want to work with Congress, with the Senate and the House on to ensure that the resources are there to meet the challenges that we have. We have not fully utilized the technologies that are available that are necessary to really secure this country and to compete with those bad actors which wish to infiltrate our country and having the ability to utilize them will make us much more safe. So I'll work with you most definitely ensuring the northern border is protected.
Senator Hassan (46:51):
Well, I appreciate that, and I just note too that at the same time, there's real concern in New Hampshire and all along the northern border that we strengthen the border and have the resources we need. We also have a really strong economic relationship with our friends to the north and a lot of family relationships.
(47:09)
So I think it's important that we're smart in the deployment of technology. We don't want to impede that flow of economy and people that's lawful, but we do want to make sure that we have the resources we need. I want to turn to the southern border now.
(47:24)
At the southern border, we need significant technological investments to support law enforcement personnel in their efforts to catch fentanyl smugglers to stop human traffickers and seize the cash and illegal guns that criminals traffic southward to the cartels. And we talked about this a little bit.
(47:42)
There's bipartisan support for these investments, and I've worked with colleagues including Senators Lankford and Cornyn on legislation around these issues. Governor Noem, could you identify specific technological investments that you would make at the southern border and are you willing to work with me on increasing southbound inspections if you're confirmed?
Kristi Noem (48:02):
Yes. Certainly, Senator. You've heard President Trump talk about the need to build a wall. And the wall and infrastructure is critically important. But also at our 382 legal ports of entry, we need to have technology so that flow can happen north and south, and it can happen in a legal manner to ensure that our commerce can continue to operate, and that we can continue to make sure that we're also secure.
(48:25)
I think de minimis shipments are a concern and the need to look at those and how traffickers and fentanyl distributors are using that. I think we also need to use scanners surveillance operations. There's new technologies out there to cooperate with satellites in some area where the topography does not necessarily facilitate having actual infrastructure and then also the ability to make sure that we're utilizing that technology that allows us to know what is going south that might be fueling some of the violence that ends up coming back north and ensuring that we're stopping that before it has the chance to supply those cartel and bad actors that would come in.
Senator Hassan (49:06):
Yeah. I really appreciate that because the southbound flow particularly of cash and weapons, fuels the cartels and strengthens them.
Kristi Noem (49:15):
Absolutely.
Senator Hassan (49:15):
And it's something that we really have to focus on. I also want to follow up on the issue of cyber security. Recently, criminals launched a successful cyber attack on power school, a cloud-based record management system that contains personal information about tens of millions of kindergartners through high school seniors, including many students and teachers in New Hampshire.
(49:39)
This cyber attack on power school comes as schools and local governments across the country have seen a surge in cyber attacks on their systems. And when a small of maybe a thousand students or so has to pay $2 million in ransom, I want you to think about what that does to one of our small communities. Right? So Governor Noem, if you're confirmed, how will you empower the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency to improve the cybersecurity of state and local governments in the United States?
Kristi Noem (50:12):
Well, thank you, Senator. If I am confirmed and have the opportunity to serve as secretary of this department, I'll be following the constitution and the rule of law and then getting these departments back on mission to why they were created and why they are existing.
(50:28)
What CISA should be doing is helping those small entities, those schools, those local city governments, the state governments and the small businesses that are critical infrastructure that don't have the resources to stay on top of the critical protections that they need to enact.
Senator Hassan (50:44):
Well, let me follow up just quickly on that one point. It's something we discussed when we had our meeting. I worked with Senator Cornyn on a bipartisan bill. It became law that created a cybersecurity grant program for state and local governments. This is an addition to each state getting a cyber coordinator to help on the ground.
(51:03)
We discussed this program, and I know you as governor had some reservations about the structure of the program, but if confirmed, will you commit to working with Congress to adjust it? I'd love your input about what gave you pause as governor. I think there were only two governors who didn't participate in the program. And I hope that as we work on the concerns you have, you'd work with me to adjust and reauthorize the program.
Kristi Noem (51:28):
Yes. All grants within the department will be evaluated when I come in and be looked at to see what we can do to make sure that they're actually fulfilling the mission to which they were established. What I would say about the cybersecurity grants in South Dakota, when I came in as governor, one of my main priorities was to bring the next industry into the state. And I determined that that would be technology and cybersecurity.
(51:53)
In fact, we have Dakota State University in our state, which is a cybersecurity national leader in training those cyber warriors that we need to protect us and keep us safe. I've since then partnered to grow and double the size of that school. We train a lot of NSA employees in South Dakota. And so understanding cybersecurity and my experience and that I think is critically important to the department and bringing it to the table to do this.
(52:18)
You talked about why we didn't take that cybersecurity grant in South Dakota, and it's because the requirements of that grant would've caused me to grow my state government. The administration costs of it would've been much more than what it been able to facilitate at the local level. And our state was already proactively helping these individuals that needed the resources to secure their systems.
Senator Hassan (52:39):
Well, I appreciate that. I'm way over time. There were very few requirements purposely in that grant program other than to make sure the money was being spent the way we authorized. But let's continue to talk about that.
Kristi Noem (52:50):
Thank you.
Senator Hassan (52:50):
Thank you.
Senator Johnson (52:50):
Senator Holling.
Senator Hawley (52:52):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Noem, welcome. Congratulations on your nomination. I'm delighted to see you here. I do notice the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee is over your shoulder there. I have to question your judgment about who your friends are based on that through the great chairman from the state of Missouri. It's fantastic to have you here.
(53:08)
The Department of Homeland Security is not particularly old, but you already have the, what I hope, will soon be the distinction of succeeding the worst secretary in the history of the Department of Homeland Security. Alejandro Mayorkas has been an absolute disgrace to that department and frankly to this country. And I'm delighted to see you willing to step up and serve. Let me just ask you something. I repeatedly asked your predecessor when he sat where you're sitting, whether the southern border was secure. And he repeatedly told me under oath, "It is secure, Senator." And he repeatedly said under oath, "Our policies are working, Senator," meaning the Biden administration policies that, of course, gave us this devastating open border. So let me just ask you, is the southern border secure as we find it today?
Kristi Noem (53:56):
Senator, no. The southern border is not secure today. But in just three days, we will have a new president in this country, President Donald J. Trump. And he will secure our border.
Senator Hawley (54:05):
That is refreshing candor. I'm glad to hear it. Let me ask you about a young man from my state. This is Travis Wolfe who's 12 years old when he was killed just over a year ago by an illegal migrant who mowed him down, and I choose my words carefully, mowed him down in a motor vehicle, hit him head on doing 75 and a 40, killed him. Others were severely injured. Just yesterday, a witness sitting where you are sitting today told this committee that migrant crime is and I quote, "Not an actual concern." Not an actual concern.
(54:43)
In a hearing before this committee advising us to drop the Laken Riley act and not focus on migrant crime. In my state with the death of people like Travis Wolfe and Officer David Lee who was assaulted and killed in St. Louis and officers in Kansas City who have been assaulted by illegal migrants and others who have been carjacked and stabbed, would you agree with me that migrant crime sure as heck is an actual concern and that you intend to do something about it?
Kristi Noem (55:08):
Yes, Senator. Absolutely. And I'm so sorry about Travis. My prayers go out to his family. I can't even imagine what that is like, and thank you for telling his story because there's so many families in this country that have that same story, and they don't understand why the federal government is allowing people to come into this country illegally and then perpetuate crimes against their people, and then give them resources and shelter and food and debit cards to go take care of their families when they go to work every single day to make sure that they're providing for their families and are held accountable to when they break our laws.
Senator Hawley (55:42):
Let me ask you this, will you work with President Trump to reinstate the Remain in Mexico program that the President had in place in his first term, which does so much to ensure that those who would seek to abuse our asylum system are not allowed into the country and those who have legitimate asylum claims, their claims are processed in due order and in due course, but they wait in Mexico until those claims are fully processed. Will you work to reinstate that program?
Kristi Noem (56:04):
Yes, Senator. The president and I have talked extensively about this, and we'll 100% partner with him to reinstate the Remain in Mexico policy and make sure that it's in place.
Senator Hawley (56:14):
Fantastic. I think Travis might be alive today if that policy had been in place. Let me ask you about CBP One, the phone app, that I've called concierge service for illegal Immigrants. I'm sure you're familiar with it. This was the Biden administration's effort to allow asylum seekers to apply ahead of time using their phones but not actually to provide any evidence that they needed asylum. There is a newspaper report, a press report that said the only problem with the app is it never asks users are you seeking asylum? They don't ask for any asylum evidence. They simply release these so-called asylum seekers who use the app into the country on parole.
(56:51)
Sometimes, they're never given a hearing. The Inspector General actually did a report, a full investigation report on CBP One and found that, frequently, users of this app were claiming the same addresses in the United States as their intended destination, even though they didn't know each other, they weren't family connections. In other words, it has been completely abused. And the idea that the federal government would pay for this kind of concierge service for Illegals, I think, is outrageous. Will you end the use of the CBP One app?
Kristi Noem (57:19):
Yes, Senator. If confirmed, and I have the opportunity to be secretary on day one, CBP One will be shut down. There's data and information in there that we will preserve so that we can ensure we know who's coming into this country and who's already here that we need to go find. But also we make sure that there's another program, CHNV, which I'm sure you're very familiar with, where our federal government actually paid to fly people into this country directly from other countries without any vetting or knowing who they are. So there's several of these programs that need to be eliminated, and we need to ensure that we're following legal immigration laws.
Senator Hawley (57:53):
I'm glad you just mentioned CHNV. This is a mass parole program. Of course, as you know, our law allows parole in only very limited circumstances. There are two circumstances, and it requires case by case evaluation. The present administration soon to be gone has granted mass parole in direct defiance of the law, not case by case evaluation. The CHNV program is one of those instances. Will you put a stop to this abuse of our parole law and our asylum system?
Kristi Noem (58:19):
Yes, we will go back to case by case evaluation of these parole cases and ensure that we have more resources, if you will partner with us to make sure that our legal immigration system is fully utilized, that we have more judges, more immigration courts so that we can process people legally and make sure that they are going through that process rather than like Joe Biden has done, use this an excuse to allow people to come into our country with no consequences.
Senator Hawley (58:46):
Let me ask you about another low light, not a highlight, but a low light of this last administration and DHS. Your predecessor, the current secretary of DHS, established a disinformation board using taxpayer resources to police speech on the internet and elsewhere to tag American citizens' viewpoints as either legitimate or not legitimate and use the power of the state to censor them, including having them removed and perhaps penalized.
(59:13)
This has got to be the darkest chapter, I think, in DHS's short history. He eventually withdrew the board under intense criticism but has never fully repudiated it and never promised not to do it again. Will you pledge to us here today that, under your leadership, there will never be a disinformation board or anything like it at DHS, and you will be a champion for the free speech and first amendment rights of all Americans?
Kristi Noem (59:38):
Senator, there will not be a board such as that under my leadership at the Department of Homeland Security.
Senator Hawley (59:43):
Fantastic. Let me ask you my remaining seconds, just one more thing about the Secret Service. You've mentioned this, and I'm so glad that you did this committee. And it has been bipartisan. This committee has done bipartisan work on the attempted assassinations or the assassination attempts, I should perhaps say, of the former president, the future president, soon to be the president, President Trump. We were stymied at every turn, and I should use the present tense. We are currently being stymied at every turn by the current Secret Service leadership and, frankly, by the leadership of DHS who have refused to turn over documents who refused to make people available for interviews.
(01:00:21)
We finally had to pass my own law in this committee, which we unanimously adopted a law statute, mind you, which would require DHS and Secret Service to turn over relevant information to us about the assassination attempts. It's unbelievable. When you come to office to this office, I hope very soon, will you pledge to us that you will open the books on all of the facts associated and around these assassination attempts that you will make available to us and to the public, most importantly, all the facts so that we can ensure that this never happens again and that the needed reforms in the Secret Service are put into effect.
Kristi Noem (01:00:58):
Yeah. Senator, if I am the Secretary of Homeland Security, I will certainly work with you to build transparency and make sure the facts are shared with you and your committee. I know that you've been very frustrated by the lack of transparency from the department. And I want to thank those of you that have worked on that report that was put together on these assassination attempts. I know it was a bipartisan report, an investigation that this committee conducted. And I appreciate you focusing on that, and I'll work with you to get the information so that you have the truth of really what happened there in the failures so they can be fixed.
Senator Hawley (01:01:30):
Thank you. That's a great place to end in a high note as I see my friend, Senator Blumenthal, who did fantastic work on this effort, and it will be an incredible new day and incredibly refreshing day to have a DHA secretary who will tell us the truth, who will be honest with us about the facts, honest with the American people and who will enforce our law. And I know you'll do that. Governor Noem, I look forward to supporting your nomination. Congratulations.
Kristi Noem (01:01:56):
Thank you.
Senator Johnson (01:01:56):
Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal (01:01:57):
Thanks, senator Johnson. Welcome, Governor Noem. And thank you for being here. Thank you for visiting with me, and thank you to your family for their service as well. Let me begin on a high note thanking Senator Hawley for his leadership on the effort that I led with him to essentially get some basic facts out of the Secret Service when we were investigating Senator Johnson and I as leaders of the permanent subcommittee on investigation, helping you lead it with the chairman and ranking member here.
(01:02:33)
And I'm hoping that you've read our report and that you will agree to begin implementing its recommendations, which call for major reforms, in my view, a house cleaning top to bottom in the Secret Service and greater transparency with this committee and with the American public.
Kristi Noem (01:02:55):
Yes, sir. I will certainly work with you to do that and to work to make sure that we have that transparency, and the committee has the information that it needs to do due diligence of its oversight.
Senator Blumenthal (01:03:06):
Our investigation is continuing, Senator Johnson, and I have discussed it. And we will be making more requests to pursue the fact-finding that is so important. I want to ask you about disaster relief. California is on fire. The fire's raging. There are going to leave destruction and devastation that is heartbreaking.
(01:03:42)
I am really disappointed with some of the statements that President-elect Trump has made, for example, saying that quote, "We won't give him," referring to Governor Newsom, "money to put out all his fires. And if we don't give him money to put out fires, he's got
Senator Blumenthal (01:04:00):
… a problem. The specter is there of potential discrimination based on politics, withholding money from California or other states. It's not an unfounded fear. In the last administration, there were public reports about President Trump withholding money from the State of Washington because of his disagreements with Governor Inslee. Connecticut, like the rest of the nation, suffers from these natural disasters. Most recently in August, we were hit by major flooding, and these natural disasters are going to become more frequent, as will be the need for the federal government to meet the requests for declarations of natural disaster. I assume you will agree with me that withholding disaster relief by President Trump or any other chief executive of the United States is a violation of his duty and of law.
Kristi Noem (01:05:02):
Well, senator leadership has consequences and looking at the tragedy that's happening in California is-
Senator Blumenthal (01:05:10):
I want to ask you yes or no, with all due respect, it's an easy-
Kristi Noem (01:05:12):
What's happening in California is the ramification of many decisions over many years. But under my leadership at the Department of Homeland Security, there will be no political bias to how disaster relief is delivered to the American people.
Senator Blumenthal (01:05:25):
So if President Trump were to say to you, "We're going to withhold money from Connecticut or Michigan or any of the states, Iowa, because we don't like the governor or we don't like the politics of the state," you would stand up to him and say, "Mr. president, we need to allocate that money."
Kristi Noem (01:05:46):
Senator, in three days, President Trump will take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law in this country, and he will do that and I'll be glad to have him back.
Senator Blumenthal (01:05:55):
And I assume that's a yes.
Kristi Noem (01:05:56):
I don't speak to hypotheticals, which is what you're asking me to do. But what I will tell you is that as secretary, I will do the same. I will deliver the programs as the laws dictate.
Senator Blumenthal (01:06:06):
Well, it's more than a hypothetical, with all due respect, and I apologize for interrupting you, but my time is limited, as you know, as a veteran of these hearings. It's more than a hypothetical. It's based on experience with President Trump withholding money from Washington State and elsewhere. I need to know from you, will you stand up to the President and say, "No, the Constitution and the Impoundment Act requires us, for example, to allocate the 100 billion dollars that we have just appropriated in the last session to states like Connecticut $3 million, Texas, $10 million, almost every one of the states represented here." Will you say no to the President if he withholds that money?
Kristi Noem (01:06:55):
Sir, I don't know about the scenarios that you're referencing with President Trump, but what I will tell you is that if given the chance to be Secretary of Homeland Security, that I will deliver the programs according to the law and that it will be done with no political bias, and if the programs change or if you decide to change the rule of law, then I will follow that while adhering to the Constitution.
Senator Blumenthal (01:07:20):
So you pledge to allocate and distribute that 100 billion dollars?
Kristi Noem (01:07:23):
According to how the program is written with no political bias.
Senator Blumenthal (01:07:27):
Thank you.
Kristi Noem (01:07:27):
Every American deserves to be there and have disaster relief the same as their neighbors.
Senator Blumenthal (01:07:34):
Basically, following the law.
Kristi Noem (01:07:35):
Yes.
Senator Blumenthal (01:07:37):
Let me ask you, Senator Peters asked you about homegrown terrorists. The New Orleans tragedy was the result of a homegrown terrorist born in this country radicalized by ISIS and it reflects the reason why the intelligence community, the FBI, almost all of our law enforcement has said repeatedly, domestic violent extremism is the most lethal and persistent threat to our security. That terrorist was radicalized by ISIS. The investigation is underway, we don't know all the facts, but we do know that he was a military veteran and ISIS was responsible for radicalizing him. Shouldn't we focus on ISIS as a threat to this country's security?
Kristi Noem (01:08:39):
Senator, certainly we should be focused on all threats to this nation's security. That's the mission of the Department of Homeland Security and homegrown terrorism is growing. We have more and more incidences. The tragedy we saw and the terrorist attack in New Orleans was-
Senator Blumenthal (01:08:52):
What will you do to combat it? What will you do to stop ISIS and other extremist organization from radicalizing people in this country?
Kristi Noem (01:09:05):
Well, certainly Senator, I'll continue to work with the administration and our partners and the Department of Defense, the intelligence agencies also within Secretary of State and the other branches and cabinet officials to make sure we're bringing all resources to bear to identify and to stop these types of terrorist activities. What I would say is the cybersecurity and intelligence elements that we have within the Department of Homeland Security have been incredibly siloed. They have not communicated with other intelligence agencies like they should and partnered. INA has some interaction but not enough and we also need to have CISA have interaction with the FBI, CIA to make sure they're working together to stop these types of threats and identify when they're growing among our citizens and how they become radicalized.
Senator Blumenthal (01:09:53):
My time has expired. This area of questioning I think is supremely important. I know there's a lot of focus on the border. We all want more border security. We want to stop migrant crime, but let's not take our eye off the ball. The Governor of Louisiana for the Super Bowl ought to be really riveted on the potential for homegrown terrorism as a threat, and I hope that you will help him and other governors to do their duty to protect the people of the United States from that homegrown terrorist threat. Thank you.
Kristi Noem (01:10:31):
Yeah, I look forward to working with you.
Dr. Rand Paul (01:10:32):
Senator Ernest.
Senator Ernest (01:10:32):
Thank you, Senator Johnson. Governor Noem, thank you so much for being here today and I want to thank you for your continuing service, the service that you had as a member of Congress, the service that you have displayed as a governor of the great State of South Dakota, our neighbor to the northwest, and for being willing to step up and take on this immense responsibility. So thank you so very much.
(01:10:59)
We had such a good discussion when you came to my office in the last several weeks, and we talked about the importance of securing our border and fixing our broken immigration system. And I'd like to start today by sharing a story about one of my constituents from Council Bluffs, Iowa. And what we have seen through this broken border is tragedy that strikes so many families across the United States. So very similar to the story that was shared by my colleague from Missouri with his constituent Mr. Wolf. I have a young woman by the name of Sarah Root who encountered tragedy on January 31st, 9 years ago. So Sarah Root was struck and killed by an illegal immigrant who was drunk driving. He was driving at three times the legal limit of alcohol, and Sarah's killer was bonded out, bonded out before the Roots laid her to rest. He fled the country and has not been seen or heard from since. The Root family has not seen justice. So Governor, how do you plan to prioritize the detention and deportation of illegal immigrants like Sarah's killer?
Kristi Noem (01:12:26):
Well, yes, Senator, thank you for telling Sarah's story. I remember when this happened because it was so close to home and so devastating for her and her family and the entire State of Iowa and our country. President Trump is focused on making sure that these types of situations don't happen again, that we don't continue to lose our children and our family members to illegal immigrants that come in and perpetuate crime with no accountability and then are released with no consequences. So the number one priority of the president is to secure the border and to deport these criminal actors immediately and as soon as possible. They will be the number one priority to make our communities safer and so that we don't have this kind of situation going forward.
(01:13:07)
In fact, people, I think when they first heard my name being mentioned and nominated for the Department of Homeland Security, maybe thought it was a little bit of a surprise, like, "Oh, I didn't think about Kristi doing that job." But I tell people the reason that I asked for it is because I knew it was the President's number one priority. I knew that it needed to have someone in the position that would do what the President promised the American people, would be strong enough to do it and follow through to make sure that we're protecting our communities and America. But that also came at it from a perspective of how these families feel, that was a wife and a mom and a grandmother, and would be able to stand up and communicate to the American people what we were doing and why we were, because it's what they asked us to do.
(01:13:53)
I have three grandchildren and one more on the way, and when I look at Little Miss Addie every day, I just think, "What kind of a country is she going to grow up in? What kind of a country will we leave her and her brother and a sister?" And I don't want them to think that their grandma sat on the sidelines and didn't do all that she could. So I will enforce the Constitution and the law, and I will make sure that when people enact horrific things like this that happened to Sarah and her family, that there will be consequences for it.
Senator Ernest (01:14:22):
Yeah, absolutely. And as a fellow grandma, I know that you are perfectly positioned to enforce this.
(01:14:29)
I do want to move on to another topic that we visited about in my office. So I'm the founder and the chair of the DOGE Senate Caucus, and so we do need greater government efficiency, and I do believe in order to do that, we need less of our employees teleworking and more of those government workers back in the office working for our constituents. And to that end, it ties together then too. We just found out that the Treasury Department had a cyber attack on December 8th from China, and no surprise here, they access servers through work from home software. So it all ties together.
(01:15:16)
We need more people back in the offices making sure that any communications are secured, any work is secured. And to that, I know the Biden Administration has put a huge emphasis on the cyber bureaucracy, but they haven't really done anything about it and they haven't given any authority to those that are enforcing the standards. So we need to enforce the standards that are set forth to make sure the cyber security is truly there, but what can DHS do one, with telework how do we get the employees back, and then two, how do we make sure that our systems are secure from these cyber attacks?
Kristi Noem (01:16:05):
Well, Senator, thank you for focusing on remote work and the need to get people back in their offices and accountable to the work that they do. In fact, I've heard since being nominated for this position that many of the agencies within the department are not showing up. They're not doing their jobs. But even FEMA, who is responsible for disaster response, that they have the alternative, some of these employees do not even respond to a disaster, which might explain the horrific results that we saw in North Carolina when they had such a terrible disaster that impacted families and communities and FEMA failed them so miserably. If It's not even responsibility of them to show up when terrible things happen, what other day-to-day activities are not getting done because they're working from home or not doing their job at all?
(01:16:53)
You talked about cyber security and the need to ensure that our systems are safe and secure. One of the things that disturbs me the most is that we don't necessarily even know how some of these espionage attacks that have infiltrated our systems have happened. We don't know how to stop them yet. We don't have the knowledge and that our departments and intelligence agencies and cybersecurity agencies have become siloed and aren't working together to stay in front of these bad actors. But many times our most vulnerable area happens at the state and local level. Some of these smaller entities that feeds information into our systems is where they choose to infiltrate and get our data and to really hold for ransom many of these companies and then impact our federal systems as well.
(01:17:38)
So one of the first meetings I had when I was elected governor with the former governor during the transition was he said, "The number one priority you're going to have as governor is to secure our systems."
Senator Ernest (01:17:49):
Yes.
Kristi Noem (01:17:49):
He said, "Our systems are so antiquated and we've had over 16,000 hacking attempts in just the last month. You need to secure our systems to get it done." So that was a priority for me and to do that, and we fully funded it and got it done in South Dakota and it's being implemented today. I look forward to doing that at the federal level to make sure that people's data and information is safe, but also our country is safe from these bad actors that have a plan to take us out.
Senator Ernest (01:18:16):
Well, thank you. My time has expired, but I do want to end on a note that another thing that I do truly appreciate about you and your nomination is that as a governor, you have worked with those local constituencies as well and those local governments, and I know that this will be an incredible strength that will ensure continued success for you within the department. So thank you Governor very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Dr. Rand Paul (01:18:44):
Senator Kim.
Senator Kim (01:18:45):
Thank you, Chairman. Governor, it's good to see you.
Kristi Noem (01:18:47):
Good to see you again too.
Senator Kim (01:18:48):
Thanks for coming before our committee. I wanted to just ask you not just about your work, but how it's going to fit into the broader incoming Trump Administration and particular, I guess, I'm uncertain about roles and responsibilities regarding your position and Tom Homan's. I guess, I just want to ask you just point-blank who's going to be in charge of the border?
Kristi Noem (01:19:08):
Well, the president will be in charge of the border. It's a national security issue, and the president is in charge of this country and has made a promise to the American people, and we will fulfill his agenda.
Senator Kim (01:19:19):
Well, that was a good answer, it's the answer I would've given as well, but I guess I got confused. When Trump made the announcement about Tom Homan, he said, "I'm pleased to announce that Tom Homan," and said that he's in charge of our nation's borders. So I guess, again, I'd just like to go back to you. How are you going to work with Mr. Homan? What is the division there? I'm trying to get a better sense of who's in charge.
Kristi Noem (01:19:42):
Yeah. Tom Homan is an incredible human being who has over 30 years of experience at the border and the insight and wisdom and he-
Senator Kim (01:19:49):
Incredible experience, I get that. I'm just trying to think through decision-making process when it comes to your work. For instance, will he be giving orders directly to CBP, ICE, USCIS?
Kristi Noem (01:20:02):
Tom Homan has a direct line to the President. He is an advisor to the President, the border Czar. I, obviously, will be if nominated and confirmed and put into the position of being the Department of Homeland Security Secretary and responsible for the authorities that we have and the actions that we take.
Senator Kim (01:20:18):
I say this because I actually want to make sure that we're empowering the next Secretary of Homeland Security.
Kristi Noem (01:20:25):
Yes.
Senator Kim (01:20:26):
In the legislation that was codified by Congress and moved forward that started this after September 11th, said, "All functions of all offices, employees and organizational units of the department are vested in the secretary." So I guess the reason why I mentioned this is I've just seen some quotes from Mr. Homan where he said, "I'll be making decisions on border security and deportation." He was asked in another interview about the stronger role that he'll play, and he said, "Absolutely, I'll be making decisions on how we do the border."
(01:20:58)
So I just raise that as a concern of mine because not only is that about the function of our executive branch, but also the capabilities of this committee to be able to properly do our constitutional duties for oversight. The ability for us to be able to have that conversation. We can talk to you, engage with you, that is the direct way, but if he is going to be making decisions, then he should come before this committee as well. And I know that that's something where, as far as I know, his role will be directly at the White House, is not something that will be under the purview directly of this committee. So I just wanted to raise those concerns.
Kristi Noem (01:21:32):
Yeah, yeah. Tom and I work very well together and talk and communicate all the time, and we'll be working together on a daily basis when we're in our positions under the new administration. And I would say there's no authorities being planned to be taken away from the department or myself if I'm in the role, and we'll continue to oversee CPP-
Senator Kim (01:21:49):
But it sends some mixed signals. You can understand how people in my home state, maybe around the country, when they hear Mr. Homan saying, "I'm making the decisions." When they hear President-elect Trump say he's in charge of our border. So I urge that we're going to try to do our best to try to make sure we're empowering the department, empowering the next secretary because that's where our laws are invested in our decision-making.
Kristi Noem (01:22:14):
Yeah. Well, thank you Senator, and we'll make sure you have all the information that you need. And Tom working directly with the president and I working directly with the president, hope to help you get all that you need to reassured that the authorities will stay the same as they currently are, but we will continue to work to secure that border and make sure that we're working together in that way.
Senator Kim (01:22:36):
I want to just switch gears about you raised the concerns about terrorism, especially foreign terrorist groups. I guess I just want to ask you, what are the major foreign terrorist groups that are… Well, first of all, what are the major foreign terrorist groups that are out there that we're tracking, which are the ones that are concerns to us in terms of potentially trying to inspire or coordinate an attack upon us? And if you can just give me a sense of what their current capabilities are to try to enact that.
Kristi Noem (01:23:03):
Well, I think we face a lot of threats, Senator, and since I'm not in the role today, I shouldn't get into specifics with you, but I think over years the-
Senator Kim (01:23:10):
Well, you can at least get into specifics about what organizations that are out there. So I just wanted to get a sense of your knowledge of the organizations.
Kristi Noem (01:23:15):
Yes, sir. You have all the traditional terrorist organizations that have always threatened the United States, but I would also say-
Senator Kim (01:23:20):
Such as?
Kristi Noem (01:23:20):
I would say Hamas, ISIS, continuing down that path of those terrorist organizations. But we'll continue to also focus though not just on those, but also the cartels, their partnership with the Chinese and what they are doing. Listen, I've told people for years, for over 30 years, I've worked on national policy, on food policy, on agriculture policy, and I've seen the Chinese agenda to infiltrate our country, control our food supply chain, but also their manipulation of their currency and stealing our IP. And now I believe that this fentanyl crisis that they have flooded our country with is geared and the purpose of it is to kill our next generation of Americans. It is to control us.
Senator Kim (01:24:02):
No, I don't discount the importance of those-
Kristi Noem (01:24:04):
So when you focus on one or two groups, I think it takes your eye off the ball as to where all the threats could come from. We just spent a significant amount of time talking about homegrown terrorism as well and about-
Senator Kim (01:24:14):
Correct. And I'm glad we're having that conversation. But the reason why I mentioned it, I was not trying to quiz you or anything of that nature. It's just that when the Department of Homeland Security, when their threat assessment for 2025 lists three organizations, lists Al Qaeda, lists ISIS, in particular ISIS Khorasan, and the IRGC, and the threat from Iran, I just want to make sure that I get it. You're talking about the importance of the border. We all understand that, we want to work with the incoming administration to try to have an orderly process with that. But I just want to make sure in particular with DHS, the primary mission, if we look at the founding legislation, the primary mission, the very first mission is prevent terrorist attacks within the United States and do everything we can to minimize that type of threat.
(01:25:02)
So yes, I do think it's important for us to focus in on one, two, or three or just wherever these terrorist groups are at. Yes, yes, I know that part of that effort to try to minimize terrorist attacks is through the work that we try to do to secure our borders, all of them: air, sea, and land. But the primary mission still is about preventing terrorism, not just the border security. That's a tool to be able to accomplish that. So I just raised that with you. I want to make sure that the next Homeland Security Secretary has a very detailed knowledge and understanding about the terrorist groups, their capabilities, and is tracking that on a absolute daily basis, and that they understand that is their top mission. And with that, I'll yield back to the chairman,
Dr. Rand Paul (01:25:49):
Senator Johnson.
Senator Johnson (01:25:51):
Governor Noem, welcome and thank you-
Kristi Noem (01:25:53):
Thank you.
Senator Johnson (01:25:53):
… for your willingness to serve. You'll be taking over a massive federal government agency, 240,000 employees. It's probably too massive. I think had I been there back then, I don't think I would've assembled these 22 different agencies in this massive department, but that's what we've got. It's a department that the previous administration, I think, has completely misused. Instead of using customs and border protection to do that, to protect our border and secure it, they've utilized those resources to incentivize a massive influx of illegal immigration. Instead of using the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency to do that, they instead engage in mission creep and utilized it to censor Americans with the misinformation board. I am concerned about disaster relief, just federal disaster relief in general, creating greater and greater and increasing levels of moral hazard resulting in higher costs of these disasters. So let's cover each one of those kind of in order. How do you gain control over a massive agency whose resources and personnel have been misused? I mean, how do you root out those individuals who instead of securing our border opened it up and facilitated this?
Kristi Noem (01:27:24):
Well, Senator, this has been a big topic of conversation in most of the meetings that I've had with the members of this committee was how do we fix this agency which the reputation is that it's broken and dysfunctional. I think that was the question I get asked the most is why would you want to head up such a dysfunctional department? And I would say that because the mission of the department is to secure the homeland and our people, it's our biggest vulnerability right now, and we have a president that's not enforcing the law, and I don't believe the law should be unequally applied. Everyone should be subject to our laws, and a nation without laws and without borders is not a nation at all. So I will work by ensuring one of the things that Senator Ernest talked about, people have to show up for work.
(01:28:11)
I think there's going to be a majority of people who don't have their primary mission to secure the homeland, that if they don't want to show up for work, then maybe they're just not truly passionate about protecting America. I think they need to do that, and they need to recognize what their job is. The morale in DHS is very low. I'm going to let people do their jobs. I'm going to remind them what their jobs are. Some of these border patrol agents haven't been able to do their jobs for a very long time. They've been processing paperwork and facilitating an invasion when they should be back securing our border, which is why they were recruited and wanted to serve there to begin with.
(01:28:44)
We're going to build partnerships with local law enforcement, with ICE and task forces. So we're communicating again with local sheriffs and mayors and law enforcement to partner together. When you talk about the fact that this is such a broken agency that needs so much improvement, a lot of it goes back to why we're recreated and are we fulfilling that mission and making sure that these individuals are getting back on task.
Senator Johnson (01:29:07):
So under my chairmanship and under the Trump Administration, we did rename a part of DHS, so the Cybersecurity Information Security Agency. I in no way, shape or form ever contemplated that the sub-agency within DHS that was really focused on securing us against the cyber threats and other threats to our infrastructure would ever be used to violate the Constitution the way it was used to violate the Constitution under the Biden Administration. This administration's been completely opaque. We do not have the information to know and the communication in terms of what all happened here. So my question is relates to how they misused CISA. Will you commit to providing the transparency, providing the information, investigate it yourself, but provide this committee, my subcommittee, the information to expose the truth of the American public, but even more importantly, propose a piece of legislation based on our investigation, based on those results to fix it so that no administration can ever misuse the language of the law to commit that kind of unconstitutional act and violate people's First Amendment rights?
Kristi Noem (01:30:31):
Yeah, Senator, I look forward to working with you on that. And I think what we saw during the COVID pandemic, the actions of CISA, their misinformation and disinformation campaign, the materials they were putting out was shocking. Shocking at what they were doing to decide what was truth, what wasn't, and how they were trying to manipulate the American people. We saw it in elections and Russia influence as well, and so ensuring that they can't do that in the future under any administration would be a priority, that they stay doing what they're supposed to do and hardening our systems and working with local officials to do that is a priority, and I'd look forward to working with you on legislation should you wish to rein them in.
Senator Johnson (01:31:12):
So the first step in that process is to expose the truth to find out who these backed actors were, expose who they were, hold them accountable.
Kristi Noem (01:31:22):
Yes.
Senator Johnson (01:31:22):
I mean, that is crucial that we take that first step. So again, look forward to working with you on that. The tragedy of the California fires, the more we learn, the more we understand that not only was it predictable, it was predicted, which means it was preventable. Again, you can't prevent the initiation of those fires, but you certainly prevent them from raging into the tragedy that they became, the dozens of people who've lost their lives, the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of property damage. It's not just California though. I mean, again, that was grotesque mismanagement, that could have been prevented. You can't prevent a hurricane, you can't prevent floods, but you certainly can try and start reducing the moral hazard that we've allowed to explode, quite honestly, by the federal government rushing in immediately, no questions asked, just tell us how big a check you want. What can you do in your new role to try and start reducing over time the moral hazard that we have created in this country with federal disaster relief?
Kristi Noem (01:32:41):
Well, Senator emergencies and disasters are always locally led. They're led by the local communities and leaders, and that's because they're much more responsive and much better informed on how to bring relief and to get those emergency services there to meet the need. Then it's state supported and federally resourced, which means that when we come in that we're supporting what the mission is, what those emergency operations and plans are, that the local city and county, and then also the state has implemented and do what we can to fulfill the mission of our programs.
(01:33:14)
One of the things that FEMA's not doing today that I think we should be doing is streamlining communications. We saw this in New Orleans, we saw it in other terrorist attacks in the country, and you just referenced it as well about the American people not getting the truth, senators not getting the truth and the transparency that we need is that I believe FEMA can always put out a blueprint for what a response would be should something terrible happen.
(01:33:38)
And when we look at the Secret Service, what happened in Butler, we saw that communication was an issue, that the Secret Service wasn't communicating, and balls were getting dropped with local authorities, local law enforcement, and we can put forward a blueprint for how communication can happen and be streamlined between the federal government, the state, and the local entities. So that should something happen, this is how we talk to each other, to make sure that the public has the facts, they're not getting misinformation, which happened with the New Orleans terror attack just recently, but also up in Pennsylvania as well.
(01:34:13)
That blueprint is what we do at the state level that FEMA has failed to do, to proactively educate the public on what everybody's roles are, what we do should something happen, whether it be a natural disaster or a terrorist attack or an emergency response is needed, that we can put out those blueprints ahead of time, educate people, train those local entities, which they currently do to a certain extent today, but not good enough to really know that not only can the resources be pre-deployed in many of these situations so that they're more readily accessible, but also how are we going to communicate and make sure everybody's on the same page so that we can be much more efficient.
(01:34:54)
I wish that we would've had different leadership and a different governor in California, or we might have a different result there. But in the Department of Homeland Security, we can do all that we can to make sure that the people that live in California know that they're going to get a response from the federal government that's appropriate, and we did all that we could to make sure that they had the information ahead of time so they could protect themselves when they do have a failure in leadership like we've seen.
Senator Johnson (01:35:21):
Thank you and good luck.
Kristi Noem (01:35:22):
You bet.
Dr. Rand Paul (01:35:23):
Since Senator Johnson brought up California fires, I have to interject here. We talked about burn policies, these are local policies, how we try to not have so much brush and things like that. They're also next to the largest body of water in the world, the Pacific Ocean. So I see these homes all burning on the beach in Malibu, and I'm like, "Wow, if they just had a generator and a hose, you start sucking the water out of the Pacific Ocean." But you could do more than that. You could pump it and put it in cisterns up in the hills a mile or two in. It doesn't rain very much there, but why don't they take the ocean water, put it in cisterns and have a bunch of water ready when a wildfire
Dr. Rand Paul (01:36:00):
Wildfire shows up, but it's like once again, bad local government. Senator Gallego.
Senator Gallego (01:36:07):
Thank you, Chairman. Thank you governor for your attendance and I appreciate us meeting last week and our frank conversation. So following up to our conversation, in recent years, I've been in very close contact with our Arizona border communities, which are unlike other border communities and about the funding needs to address migrant influxes through the shelter and services program or SSP. Without this funding border communities must bear all the financial burden for national immigration challenges and the broken border in general. So that means police, fire, hospital systems in general, anything of that. And at the same time, they'll also face the potential challenges of street releases. And again, these are very small towns on the border, so having thousands of people being released becomes both burdensome security issues and just not fair to them. And we get lumped in with places like New York and Chicago about how they do their shelter programs.
(01:37:00)
Our shelter programs are not the same as New York and Chicago. We do not permanently put people in apartments or anything of that nature. We are trying to move people away from the border so that way they don't become a burden on these very, very small communities. So I'm very highly concerned, as I told you in our meeting when the SSP program becomes politicized and to the point where we get lumped in with those programs I don't think are effective and are actually counterproductive and it ends up depriving our small Arizona borders of these very, very vital funds that they need. So as DHS secretary, how would you ensure that border communities are not left to respond to and pay for these immigration influxes, the broken border system on their own? And when you commit to helping really not politicize or just join the SSP program to the point where places that are doing things correctly like Yuma, Arizona, like Pima County, like Cochise County, aren't lumped in with the people that are doing things incorrectly like New York State and Chicago.
Kristi Noem (01:38:01):
Well, senator, thank you for the conversation in your office about the program, FEMA, the southern border and the challenges and then also the difference between your state and how you utilize funds versus other states. I would say that, my hope is that if given the opportunity to serve as secretary, that the federal government would no longer, and I believe as President Trump has promised the American people facilitate an illegal alien invasion and that your communities in Arizona would no longer have the issue with having people in your small towns and communities that you need to figure out how to take care of and get them to where they want to go in other places of the country.
(01:38:39)
The President has promised he will secure the border that we will uphold our nation's laws and that he will do that to the benefit and be putting America first again. So I know we talked extensively about the SSP program and how you've utilized it, but getting these programs back to what they were intended is important to FEMA as a disaster response agency, and some of the facilities that have been utilizing these types of funds and dollars need to be reevaluated and to make sure that it's truly doing the service that is upholding our nation's laws.
Senator Gallego (01:39:15):
And certainly I understand reevaluating especially how some of these states have been using it and in an ideal world, we don't have to have a program like that 'cause we don't have this mass of humanity that's coming towards our borders, but even under the first Trump administration, we actually still needed it also. So this is why my concern is to not get rid of this program because again, these small communities, I'm talking communities of maybe 10,000 people, maybe only six or seven cops are going to end up really bearing the brunt and we are not a big state. We can't really compensate for these types of losses. These small communities are also largely, you come from a rural state, counties that are largely rural and with a lot of federal land so that actually don't even have a tax base.
(01:39:54)
So when the broken immigration system sends people to these borders and these communities don't have enough money to pay for cops, firefighters over time for hospital systems, it's that type of program that keeps these small communities afloat. So just want to make sure that again, this doesn't not become politicized and that we are kept separate from I think the mistakes that other states have taken on. Moving on, in Arizona, we have large parts of the board, they run through tribal lands. We have 22 federally recognized tribes. We have great relationships with these tribes. They want to be collaborative partners when it comes to border security. And then we have some great programs that have worked in the past. For example, the Shadow Wolves Program with the Tohono O'odham Nation is a really good example, collaborative program of tribal law enforcement that worked with DHS to make sure they stop human smuggling and cartels going through the borders. But as DHS Secretary, what is your plan to consult with our border tribes and work together to balance both national security but also their sovereignty?
Kristi Noem (01:40:57):
Yeah. Well, Senator, I believe that my experience as governor and my relationship with working with our tribes is going to be an incredible powerful tool for me to bring to bear at the Department of Homeland Security to work on how we secure our southern border but still respect their sovereignty and still be able to work with them. This year, when looking at public safety issues that we had in South Dakota and their lack of ability to hire tribal officers on our reservations in South Dakota, I offered to train federal law enforcement officers, BIA officers, but also their tribal police in South Dakota at no cost to our tribes. And it's been an incredible powerful tool that we've had to build relationships. Those tribal police had the chance to go through academy with the local maybe deputies from the counties and the state highway patrol troopers that were coming on board and those relationships have built partnerships in our state that we didn't have before.
(01:41:51)
The Shadow Wolf training opportunity is incredible. That was down in Arizona that you spoke of too, and in looking into that program, I'd like to continue to build on that and perpetuate in the future so that our tribes have an opportunity to have a secure border but also have it reflect their values and their culture and have their own people be a part of the solution and then even when it comes to the infrastructure of the wall that we're respecting that and their landscapes and their land as well. So I look forward to working with you as we move into this next administration to be able to protect our country and then work and respect our tribes as we do so.
Senator Gallego (01:42:29):
Thank you. And the President Trump and some of his other potential staff and advisors have been very vocal about implementing a mass deportation strategy, talking to my agricultural community, my dairy community, they have concerns that this approach will lead to workforce shortages that will further drive up the costs of everything and something that we have really been working hard to cross, I think a bipartisan and a bipartisan manner to bring down the costs of everything and unfortunately this would reignite inflation. What is your plan to ensure safe and legal immigration processes for agricultural workers while protecting local agricultural operations, including those both of our home states?
Kristi Noem (01:43:12):
Well, Senator, the President and President Trump has been very clear that his priority is going to be deporting criminals, those who have broken our laws and perpetuated violence in our communities. That'll be the priority. And as I spoke earlier with our statistics, having over 425,000 of those with criminal convictions in our country, that will be a focus that we need to tackle right away and it'll be a big one. Beyond that, his next priority is going to be those with final removal orders and focus on those individuals who have long overstayed and that there is a consequence for ignoring our federal laws. Beyond that, we'll continue conversations. As you know, I'm a farmer and a rancher and come from an agricultural state and we'll work together to make sure that laws are followed. It is the Senate and the house that puts forward the laws. I as secretary uphold the law so you determine what that is and debate and discussion. I'll be transparent and share as much information and insight as I have with my background and experience and continue to work with you.
Senator Gallego (01:44:18):
[inaudible 01:44:20].
Dr. Rand Paul (01:44:20):
Senator Moreno.
Senator Moreno (01:44:22):
First of all, thank you Governor for being here for testifying before this committee and for your service, not just to your state but to America. Nine years ago today, we met in probably the coldest day I've ever been in my life in Iowa-
Kristi Noem (01:44:39):
Yeah, that's true.
Senator Moreno (01:44:39):
… as you and I were making phone calls and whipping up votes for Republicans in Iowa, my wife Bridget, who's here, got a chance to meet you and we left Iowa saying, "That person's really going to go far," and here we are nine years later, you've been an amazing Governor, amazing Congresswoman, and now you're going to make an even better Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. So I think sometimes in D.C. we tend to complicate things. There is a current Secretary of Homeland Security, so why don't we take this opportunity to do a little job review and compare and contrast him to you. So if you don't mind, I'll ask you some questions and you can give me an answer. Secretary Mayorkas allowed about, you said it, just about 400 people on the terror watch list to come into this country legally. If you were confirmed as Secretary of Homeland Security, how many people on the terror watch list would you allow into this country?
Kristi Noem (01:45:35):
Well, Senator, we would work every single day until that number was zero. And if you look at the previous Trump administration over his entire four years in comparison to Joe Biden's number President Trump, it was 11 that were then removed from the country and faced consequences. When you look at the 382 that Joe Biden has let in and the policies continue, is shocking and needs to be changed immediately.
Senator Moreno (01:46:01):
Mayorkas let in about 12,000 murderers, how many would you target to let into this country?
Kristi Noem (01:46:05):
My goal every day would be to have no murderers allowed into this country and our communities.
Senator Moreno (01:46:10):
Mayorkas allowed 16,000 rapists, how many would you target to let in?
Kristi Noem (01:46:13):
Every day I'd work to make sure that there was none let into this country.
Senator Moreno (01:46:17):
He let 600,000, Mayorkas, 600,000, people with criminal convictions, how many would you allow in?
Kristi Noem (01:46:23):
We would work every day to make sure people are safe and that those with criminal convictions are immediately removed.
Senator Moreno (01:46:29):
How many private jets would you have the United States taxpayers have fly into foreign countries to pick up people to bring them here.
Kristi Noem (01:46:37):
Yeah. Senator, we will no longer be undertaking that mission at the Department of Homeland Security.
Senator Moreno (01:46:41):
So not 700,000 individuals on private jets over the last four years you would not have any?
Kristi Noem (01:46:47):
No. I'll be working with President Trump to put in place his agenda and adherence to our federal laws.
Senator Moreno (01:46:53):
And how many illegals will you plan to house in luxury hotel rooms in Manhattan at a cost of $6, 000 per month?
Kristi Noem (01:47:01):
Sir, clearly, Senator, during this election, the American people said they did not support that and that that would not be a part of this new administration.
Senator Moreno (01:47:09):
How about sex change operations for illegals, how many of those would you suspect you would fund?
Kristi Noem (01:47:15):
Senator, I believe that the Department of Homeland Security will be reevaluating its mission in this country to not allow that going forward under President Trump's goals.
Senator Moreno (01:47:24):
And if you had any legal migrant that was in this country and they committed a crime, would you offer them airfare from one state to another to evade law enforcement?
Kristi Noem (01:47:35):
Sir, I will be following this nation's laws and the Constitution and make sure that all laws are adhered to.
Senator Moreno (01:47:42):
And if you had been the head of the Department of Homeland Security a year or so ago, would you have closed a detention center in Georgia that would've allowed the release of somebody charged with a crime?
Kristi Noem (01:47:54):
Sir, I don't have the specifics to that situation, but certainly that would not be something that I would want to have under my watch.
Senator Moreno (01:48:01):
So just to be clear, Laken Riley would be alive today if you had been the Secretary of Homeland Security?
Kristi Noem (01:48:08):
Oh, Senator, my hope is that that would be true. Yes.
Senator Moreno (01:48:12):
Let's switch to another part of the disgraceful immigration laws that Biden and Mayorkas, who objectively, by the way, objectively, has been the worst cabinet member ever in the history of the United States of America. Let's talk about temporary protective status. Temporary being the operative word. Mayorkas and Biden just extended temporary protective status again through 2027. Will you continue to corrupt TPS to allow some sort of open borders agenda and will you use hot weather of 80 degrees and sunny beaches in El Salvador as a reason why people have to stay in America and not safely return?
Kristi Noem (01:49:01):
Yeah, Senator, this program has been abused and manipulated by the Biden administration and that will no longer be allowed to allow that and these extensions going forward the way that they are, the program was intended to be temporary and this extension of over 600,000 Venezuelans as well is alarming when you look at what we've seen in different states, including Colorado with gangs doing damage and harming the individuals and the people that live there.
Senator Moreno (01:49:30):
And in terms of our border, like the physical border, I've been there many times. You've been there many times. Who should be in charge? Who should have operational control of our border? The United States government or the Mexican drug cartels?
Kristi Noem (01:49:44):
Oh, Senator, the United States needs to control our borders and secure them.
Senator Moreno (01:49:49):
So if this were a job interview in the private sector and you had somebody like Alejandro Mayorkas in charge and we had the opportunity to upgrade to you, this would be the greatest upgrade in history of the United States of America. But I'm going to end my time with a startling statistic and actually a challenge to the Democrat party. When Mayorkas was confirmed, every single Democrat voted to confirm him and six Republicans joined all 50 Democrats in that confirmation. If we get to the vote, and hopefully Chairman, we could do that Monday, because we cannot wait one single day without you being in charge of that department. We should have 100%, 100 senators vote for your confirmation.
(01:50:48)
This will be the litmus test in my mind as to whether we have a Democrat party that's actually serious about doing bipartisan things like securing this country and protecting our citizens. Any Democrat that voted for Mayorkas that does not vote for you should be in front of their voters and removed from office. Thank you for serving, Brian. Thank you for being here, for putting up with the nonsense that you guys have had to put up with over the years. You are going to make an amazing Secretary of Homeland Security. Thank you for being here.
Kristi Noem (01:51:23):
Thank you, Senator.
Dr. Rand Paul (01:51:24):
Senator Slotkin.
Senator Slotkin (01:51:29):
Thanks for being here and thanks for our time in my office, Governor. I'm a former CIA officer, joined right after 9/11 and served three tours in Iraq alongside the military. I'm actually the first CIA officer in the Senate and to me the most important thing again as a Democrat from a state that Trump won, right, on the same ballot we both won. I understand we're going to have different policy opinions. I certainly understand that the President or incoming President has the right to nominate whoever he wants. Those are not the issues for me that I'm going to spend my time on. The ones that I care about the most relate to the mission of the organization when it was founded, protecting the homeland, and I think to me, it's one thing when there's campaign rhetoric or political politicization of things, everyone does that on both sides of the aisle in this committee and in our line of work, but when it comes to actually protecting the country, you do have to be clear and honest about facts and not conflate things.
(01:52:37)
So it's just important to me that I know, particularly since you do have one of the intelligence agencies within the Department of Homeland Security that you're going to call a spade a spade, right. The most recent acts of domestic terrorism in New Orleans, horrible incident in Nevada had nothing to do with migrants. Correct?
Kristi Noem (01:52:58):
Correct.
Senator Slotkin (01:52:59):
They were homegrown American citizens. One of them was actually in a very elite military unit. I mean, it's horrible. It's one of the hardest things to catch the sort of lone wolf, radicalized American citizen, but I want to protect ourselves. Our most recent examples of domestic terrorism we're not what we've spent the majority talking about today, crime from a migrant, and I don't dispute there is crime, but I just want to know and I want to hear from you as an intelligence officer that you're going to speak about real threats and not blow something up, politicize something, make something more exciting because that's maybe what the President wants to hear, but your mission to protect and defend the Constitution means calling honestly what the threats are to the country. Can you just give me a yes or no, please?
Kristi Noem (01:53:49):
Yes, Senator. I will be as transparent and factual every day with you and the American people as possible based on the information that I have. I don't know if the investigations are closed in New Orleans and in Nevada, but what we know so far and needs to be relayed to the American people, needs to be the truth and facts.
Senator Slotkin (01:54:08):
Yeah, I'd ask that. We've talked a lot about border security. As a CIA officer, I think one of the only people on this committee who's actually worked on protecting the homeland. I'm a Middle East terrorism and militia expert by training, so I believe deeply in it and every country of the world gets to decide who comes inside its borders. That's not a radical concept, but I think I've been open with this committee that it is also on us to fix the deeply broken legal immigration system. I'm glad to hear that you're going to carry out the laws on the immigration system. Democrats and Republicans are to blame that we haven't fixed this system, but I also believe you can't fully control the border unless you give people that we need for our companies, for our economy a legal vetted way to come here. So do you believe in legal vetted immigration and that we need more of it in the United States?
Kristi Noem (01:55:05):
I do believe we need to follow our legal immigration laws and that it needs to be vetted. We need more resources, I believe in some of the elements of this to ensure that we're-
Senator Slotkin (01:55:16):
Do you believe that our economy depends and needs some level, just like your family came from Norway and on economic drive and wanted a better life-
Kristi Noem (01:55:24):
Well, immigration's always been a part of our history and will be a part of our future. We just need to make sure that we're adhering to our nation's laws, which this body has the ability to-
Senator Slotkin (01:55:32):
I'm with you, I'm with you.
Kristi Noem (01:55:33):
… continue to change and to put in place.
Senator Slotkin (01:55:37):
Again, going back to the fact that you will pledge an oath to the Constitution, not to President Trump. Just like every other nominee, President Trump said in November that he's willing to use law enforcement, National Guard or even active duty military to go after the threat from within the United States. I don't know exactly what he was talking about, but we have recent examples from your predecessors at DHS where federal law enforcement were sent into a state, in this case Oregon without coordination with the governor. Those federal law enforcement officers at the time were putting down threats to federal buildings and they were legitimate threats. I don't dispute, there was destruction of property going on during a bunch of protests and riots, so I don't dispute that. But they weren't wearing insignia. We talked about this. They weren't wearing any markings, so people were arrested by folks in fatigues with no names, no idea who they were, like right out of a bad Hollywood movie. Okay. If the President asks you to send in federal law enforcement to a state without coordination of that governor, would you support that action?
Kristi Noem (01:56:55):
Senator, my job, if nominated, and sworn in as Secretary of Homeland Security is to uphold the Constitution and to uphold-
Senator Slotkin (01:57:04):
So you will push back-
Kristi Noem (01:57:05):
… the rules of this country. Yes, that will be the oath and the pledge that I will be making. And my goal also is to work with you to ensure that we have situations that are always appropriate, that we are well-defined on who we are-
Senator Slotkin (01:57:16):
I just to know you're a former Governor, you can imagine that if Joe Biden sent in 700 federal law enforcement under Secretary Mayorkas without coordinating with you, I think we can agree you'd be a little upset. So I just ask that you give the same respect for coordination and that we are very sensitive. People are worried about politicizing of law enforcement and the uniformed military. That's a bad thing. I hope we can agree. Lastly, I will just say, look forward to looking at the northern border, the Gordie Howe Bridge, your help staffing that. We know you are right now across many administrations, we haven't met our staffing goals at DHS and that's a problem, so we really want to make sure that opens on time.
(01:58:02)
But I also want your assurances. You received FEMA assistance from Joe Biden's administration, right. You had historic floods. You asked and requested of the administration and you were given millions of dollars to help with that. I understand you don't like Gavin Newsom, but can you say in front of the American people that you will open the books to this committee who does have oversight over FEMA, that you will open the books in a bipartisan way to ensure whether it's North Carolina or California or anywhere in between, that the American people can know that you are not playing politics with disaster assistance?
Kristi Noem (01:58:38):
Yes. Senator, I'll work with you in this committee to make sure I'm following the federal law and ensuring that you have information and transparency from us and from DHS and FEMA.
Senator Slotkin (01:58:48):
Thank you. Appreciate it. Yield back.
Dr. Rand Paul (01:58:49):
Senator Lankford.
Senator Lankford (01:58:51):
Governor Noem, great to see you.
Kristi Noem (01:58:51):
Great to see you too.
Senator Lankford (01:58:53):
Thanks for being here. Thanks for accepting this nod that the President has given you. For, Brian, thanks. Both of you, you've walked through a lot. I have had the privilege of knowing you for a very long time since we served together in the House of Representatives, so I have the benefit of knowing your qualifications and how strong you are in all these background issues and how hard you work on these things because I've seen it firsthand. So I appreciate you stepping into this because a lot of attention across the country will be focused on this. You know that full well and you've stepped into it. For Governor Landry, my state and many folks in my state are praying for you and for your state. You've done a great job in leadership at this moment in a very, very tough time for Louisiana, and we don't want to see acts of terrorism anywhere in our country and it's incredibly difficult days for a governor, so thanks for your leadership on that as well. I also have to tell you, Kristi, I've whined to my wife occasionally about the temperature that's coming on Monday. I'm very excited about Trump's inaugural, but we're all going to be sitting outside in about 12 degrees And I thought just for fun, I would check South Dakota on Monday, it's one, for a high, for a high.
Kristi Noem (02:00:04):
Yeah, for a high.
Senator Lankford (02:00:05):
And so I'm going to stop whining about the temperature Monday here in Washington, D.C. on it. Look, I'm going to run through a couple of things here because I know you, not everybody in Oklahoma knows you. The questions that I get from people though in Oklahoma, I want to be able to run past you because they want to be able to know the answer to these things, so I'm just going to blitz through a whole bunch of them. Will you use the legal authority that DHS already has to be able to close our border?
Kristi Noem (02:00:33):
Yes, Senator. I will work with President Trump to ensure that we're securing our border.
Senator Lankford (02:00:37):
Thank you. There's a lot of things that this Congress needs to do, has already been mentioned by Senator Slotkin as well, that we need you to be able to close loopholes to be able to give you additional authority, but there's a tremendous amount of authority currently not being used in Oklahoma, as you're saying, is that about to be used? And they'll be grateful to be able to hear that. No other President has ever created a phone app to be able to facilitate a faster processing of aliens in, called the CBP One app. It's been mentioned several times here. Will you use your authority to stop facilitating faster processing of illegal aliens into our country with the CBP One app?
Kristi Noem (02:01:12):
Yes, Senator. We will eliminate the CBP One app, maintain some of the data that's in it that's critical to knowing who's in our country, but that app will no longer be in use.
Senator Lankford (02:01:20):
Thank you. No other President has ever used the parole authority, just in general, humanitarian parole to facilitate faster processing of aliens into our country, which leads to the catch and release we've all heard about. So the Oklahomans that I talked to say, "Are we about to end the abuse of parole and end catch and release? Is that about to stop?"
Kristi Noem (02:01:42):
Senator, President Trump's been very clear that he will end catch and release.
Senator Lankford (02:01:46):
Terrific. Folks want to know, will you use your authority with the funds that are given to you by Congress to actually build more wall rather than use the funding that's given to you as the Biden administration did to do environmental remediation around the border rather than actual border wall and border structure?
Kristi Noem (02:02:03):
Yeah. Senator, President Trump has been clear that he wants to build the wall.
Senator Lankford (02:02:08):
So do we. So will you use your authority to be able to scan more vehicles and obviously we've got to get you the funding to be able to do this, to be able to scan more vehicles and individuals that are carrying Fentanyl into our country through our ports of entry.
Kristi Noem (02:02:21):
Yes, Senator. We will continue to use technologies but hopefully be able to use more with the resources that were granted to scan those vehicles and know what's coming in and out of this country.
Senator Lankford (02:02:32):
Last year, FEMA employees during disaster relief were instructed by one of their supervisors that if they see a Trump sign or a Trump flag flying to skip that house, to not stop by there and tell them what their federal government can do for them. Will you allow FEMA employees or any within DHS to politicize their role and to pick and choose who gets help and who doesn't as an American?
Kristi Noem (02:03:02):
Senator, under President Trump's administration, disaster and emergency relief will not be handed out with political bias. Every American will be responded to and treated equally.
Senator Lankford (02:03:12):
That's what folks want to know. Will you review the Secret Service responsibilities to be able to go back through it and to say, are they focused on their primary mission or is there something you could distract? Secret Service still chases down financial crimes, they're still chasing down child exploitation. Those are serious things for Treasury or for FBI to do, but there's a question is if that's the first priority for Secret Service?
Kristi Noem (02:03:35):
Senator, the Secret Service is in need of dramatic reforms. They do have a protective detail element that is their priority and also an investigation side. My understanding is that that investigation side is often used to train the protective detailed officers, but clearly they are not focusing on what their true duty is and it needs to get back onto what they were created for and that was the protective detail, mission and emergency situations that they need to help plan and prepare for and defend.
Senator Lankford (02:04:05):
Thank you. This committee made a request to the Secretary of Homeland Security last year, and by the way, also the head of the FBI to be able to come before this committee and to do what every Secretary of Homeland Security has done for the last 20 years, every single year, unbroken until last year. And then the secretary refused to come before this committee in an open session and talk about national threats. Now, the former Chairman protested strongly to the Biden administration and DHS, they weren't coming, but they still refused to be able to come. Will you come before this committee and talk about the threats openly so the American people can hear them in a public forum?
Kristi Noem (02:04:49):
Yes. Senator, Senator Peters and I discussed this quite a bit in our meeting as well, and I have committed to come and give that briefing to this committee and to the American people.
Senator Lankford (02:04:58):
Thank you. We need that. Let me tell you another challenge we've had with Homeland Security in the past four years. When we ask for data and for information, we get, "I'll get back to you on that." When we ask again and again and again and again, we get the same statement, "I'll get back to you on that." Now, I can go down the street to the command center, where they actually get the data in live, and they have it up on big screens and they're tracking exactly what's happening on the southern border to the minute, but if I ask for what happened last month, they'll say, "We're still gathering that data." We're not asking for anything other than what Congress is supposed to get. That's the ability to be able to see data and to have real oversight over DHS and that has been a failure of this DHS along with multiple other issues on that. When we request the data for basic things like, how many special interest aliens were allowed across the border.
(02:05:49)
If it was last year, we had to find out on our own. It was 70,000 people that were targeted by this administration as a potential national security risk that were not just found at the border that were released when they were found at the border. 70,000 people just from last year in the country right now that this administration declared at the border, they're a potential national security risk. Now, I know you're not going to do that, but when we ask for the data and for the information, when we say, "How's the National Vetting Center working?" Do you have the connection to be able to screen individuals there? We're just doing our oversight responsibility. You've served in Congress before and did a great job on that and did oversight. We want to still be able to do the same thing. Will you provide data to this committee so that we can cooperate with you to help?
Kristi Noem (02:06:38):
Senator, I will follow the law and be transparent with you and allow you to do the due diligence towards oversight that you're tasked with.
Senator Lankford (02:06:45):
I have absolutely no doubt about that, Governor. I have absolutely no doubt, looking forward to you serving in that role.
Kristi Noem (02:06:50):
Thank you.
Senator Lankford (02:06:50):
Thank you.
Kristi Noem (02:06:50):
Thank you.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:06:52):
Well, congratulations, Governor Noem. You are almost done.
Kristi Noem (02:06:55):
Okay.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:06:57):
We've been through a lot of questions. I think you've handled the questions very well and I'm ask a couple of questions and I think the ranking member has a few and I think we'll be done very shortly. I think a lot of Americans, including some conservatives misunderstand the First Amendment. They think the First Amendment says that, "Facebook has to publish my opinion," or, "The Wall Street Journal has to publish my opinion," or, "We need to force them to be fair." That's not what the First Amendment's about at all.
(02:07:24)
The First Amendment really doesn't apply to telling private companies what we can or cannot say. YouTube censored me and I despise their policy. They actually took down speeches I made on the floor, but really I don't have a legal recourse other than I can complain about YouTube being unfair and not hosting both sides of an issue. However, with the government though, there is a rule. The First Amendment specifically says, "Congress shall pass no law banning or abridging speech," and this is what really got us worried about what, not only the FBI was doing, but the Department of Homeland Security actually meeting with these companies
Dr. Rand Paul (02:08:00):
… on a weekly basis. And imagine the chilling effect of this, imagine that there are cameras here, that they're going to end their filming of this interview and then decide, "Well, what she said or what he said really was misinformation, and we should edit that out." Can you imagine? It's just hard for me to imagine that the media has not, which once defended the First Amendment, hasn't been in more of an uproar over the government meeting with the media to decide things. Some of this we didn't know, and then Elon Musk bought Twitter. People asked him, they said, "Well, you've paid $44 billion for Twitter. Isn't that too much?" And he said, "I paid $44 billion to defend free speech."
(02:08:45)
And it's been an amazing service, not only to open up the forum to more viewpoints, but to point out what the government was doing. In this last week, we heard from Mark Zuckerberg, who said that the pushiness, the coerciveness of government meeting with them was unprecedented and that they pushed back. But he also said worse than them just sort of telling him he should restrict speech, they also threatened him. They threatened to come after him through antitrust law, they threatened to remove parts of Section 230 of the liability protection.
(02:09:22)
Just to imagine this bully nature of government, and I know you're opposed to that, but if you're confirmed and you're in a position of saying, "We're just no longer sending people to meet with media," and the way I describe it is to talk about constitutionally protected speech. Because some will say, "Oh, well, what about pornography or what about child trafficking?" Those are illegal. Those are not constitutionally protected speech. You have every ability to meet with that. But for constitutionally protected speech, will you tell us in America that you will no longer be sending government agents to meet with the media?
Kristi Noem (02:10:02):
Yes, Senator. I'll work with you to ensure that civil rights and liberties are protected and that we are not in the misinformation and disinformation space like the current DHS is.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:10:13):
The only other thing I would ask on this basis is we will send requests, we sent requests previously, sometimes and often bipartisan requests, for information. The Twitter files, Michael Schellenberger, Matt Taibbi, Bari Weiss did a great job of showing what was happening in Twitter and how they were cooperating with government. I think the other investigation that needs to occur is who are the people in government they were talking to? Do they still work at DHS and can we make sure that they're not in a position of authority?
(02:10:44)
And this is not something I'm going to tell you to do. It's just a request that you have your own investigation, that you have people who work for DHS to say, "We are going to look for people who are bringing their political bias to work and trying to influence speech and restrict speech based on their bias and help us in rooting that out and making sure that these people never again have that responsibility." Because I don't think there's ever been anything like this as far as the restriction of speech, and I think the election is largely going to stop and tilt things the other way. But will you help us by looking internally for those who are trying to restrict speech?
Kristi Noem (02:11:25):
Senator, I look forward to working with you on that mission.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:11:28):
I don't have any other questions now, but I think Senator Peters and Senator Blumenthal, and we'll see how it goes. We're going to start with Senator Peters with one more five-minute round.
Gary Peters (02:11:39):
Yeah, I'll be fairly brief. We've had opportunity to talk at length about many issues, and again, I appreciate that, Governor. I just want to stress going forward, and we've heard a lot of comments here, I think there's been a fair amount of political theater. Not as much as I know exist in other committees, and I've always strived, and I know ranking member or now Chairman Paul share the notion that we want to be a fact-based committee and try to find tangible solutions to the tough problems that we face, and data's important. We've heard a lot of numbers being thrown around here, and I don't have time to go through and challenge those numbers. Some of them we don't even know where they came from. I don't think that's helpful to the very important mission of confirm that you're going to be dealing with. So I hope in the future, that we're actually dealing with facts.
(02:12:32)
You've mentioned many times that you do want to deal with facts and real data. And again, we heard a lot here that's not real data, and we should not operate that way. And if confirmed when we move forward, I'm going to look forward to working with you based on the facts and understand where the real threats are, how we need to appropriate resources to make sure we're meeting those threats.
(02:12:52)
And let's take this hyper-partisanship out of such an important issue of homeland security. We have way too much partisanship in this country, and it's resulted in a polarization of people here. We've got to come together as this country, we've got to lock arms and understand that we're all proud Americans, we all want to do what's best for the American people and solve the issues that are before us.
(02:13:17)
So in that spirit, and certainly you've communicated that spirit to me, but in that spirit, I hope if confirmed that is exactly what you will be bringing to this office, and let's move away from this toxic political environment that we have in the country and celebrate what's great about our country in the spirit of bringing the American people together.
(02:13:40)
So I have one question before we turn it over to other members. As a member of this committee, as well as the Armed Services Committee, I've focused a great deal on the safe integration of drones in our airspace while addressing the growing threats that drones possess. We certainly see what drones are doing in changing the face of warfare, whether it's in Ukraine and other battlefields around the world. We are very concerned about the weaponization of those drones and what it could mean to the security here in the United States. I've proposed comprehensive legislation to extend authorities beyond just the FBI and DOJ and Homeland Security to local law enforcement.
(02:14:20)
You mentioned in your comments about security for the Super Bowl, which is incredibly important, but we have to remember that that threat exists for all games. In fact, one of the biggest supporters of my legislation is the NFL. In fact, we just had a recent playoff game that was delayed because of drones that flew into that playoff game. We are very concerned that you could have a drone with a grenade or an explosive device, which would be absolutely catastrophic. It's absolutely essential that we address this threat. What we're seeing around the world and what we're seeing in daily activities should be a concern. I think this is just a matter of time. It's not if, it's when, and we need to be on the front end of that.
(02:15:03)
And with that in mind, I want to remind folks that Congress just recently extended critical counter-UAS authority, counter-drone authority only for a short-time basis for the 12th time. We only do these little tiny short-term extensions, and we aren't dealing with the problem comprehensively as we should, and those are going to expire on March 14th, a very short time from now. And so my question for you, Governor, is if confirmed as DHS secretary, will you commit to working with me and my colleagues to pass durable, long-term authorities that will protect this country from what is a real threat, and it's just a matter of time? And I don't want to have a horrible incident occur, and people wonder why we didn't take action beforehand. So please address that.
Kristi Noem (02:15:49):
Senator, I look forward to working with you and this committee to address the threats we may face and the usage of drones in this country in relation to our national security interests and our homeland security interests. So thank you for bringing up the conversation today, because it is one of the areas within DHS that we have a responsibility to address in cooperation with Congress.
Gary Peters (02:16:11):
And my first comments on bringing people together, please comment on that.
Kristi Noem (02:16:14):
Oh, well, thank you, sir. Yes, no.
Gary Peters (02:16:17):
I didn't ask that question, but in my 24 seconds left.
Kristi Noem (02:16:18):
I'm looking forward to working with everyone, Republicans and Democrats and everyone else in between, that in this country that is focused on keeping America safe and secure for our future. I would just point, Senator, to my background and my history. When I came to Congress, I worked with Republicans and Democrats on both sides of the aisle on many pieces of legislation and was very happy to do so and focus on priorities on where we could agreement, knowing we may disagree on some issues, but there was areas where we could keep the federal government accountable and do due diligence by the people that pay their taxes and get up and go to work every single day. As Governor, as well. I was Governor for every single person in the state of South Dakota, and they were my number one priority, and everyone knew there that it didn't matter if you were Republican or Democrat, that my focus was on them and keeping our state thriving and free.
(02:17:11)
So I look forward to continuing the work that I always have to be coming up with solutions and in a bipartisan manner, and hopefully, my visits to your office and conversations reflected that and my intention on how I would conduct the role as the Department of Homeland Security Secretary.
Gary Peters (02:17:28):
Got a brief follow up to that.
Kristi Noem (02:17:29):
Sure.
Gary Peters (02:17:29):
So it's data and facts that we can all agree on that drive our policy and not political theater. Would you agree?
Kristi Noem (02:17:38):
Well, certainly, sir. We need to be addressing facts and information rather than political theater. We also need to speak truth to facts. So I think it's important that we're willing to confront our challenges head on and have those conversations. And you'll see me back at your office door very soon to continue our work together.
Gary Peters (02:17:58):
Very good. Thank you.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:17:59):
And I want to second basically what Senator Peters has said. On records requests, I've told him, and I plan on it, it's going to be administration of my party, that if he wants records and there are legitimate records, we're going to sign requests together, and we'd like to get the records. It also helps, though, and I think Senator Lankford mentioned this, is you ask a question, not you, but to the administration or any administration, they're like, "Oh, yeah. We'll get back to you on it." Many times, I've even asked in advance, and I would suggest that we ask you in advance together, we ask in advance, "If you're coming in a month, we say we want this data. Be prepared to talk about it." And if you are, you'll have many more friends on both sides, because what usually happens, and that's why I don't like springing the question. If it's a technical question that needs data, we're going to tell you in advance, at least I will, and we want you to come prepared with that.
(02:18:44)
And that goes a long way, because really what happens is we get stiff-armed. They say, "We'll get back to you," and we have no way to force you, really, other than we could cut the money off, and nobody ever does that. But you'll have 200,000 people working for you. By goodness, send your experts out, scour the records. And it is true, facts are difficult, and sometimes, there's different spins on the same set of facts, but I think that will help.
(02:19:08)
On the drones, I think we need more facts. So I'm more than willing to work with the ranking member on doing something on drones, but I don't want every sheriff out there shooting up in the sky at stuff. We got to figure out and we got to get the truth about do we really have drones everywhere flying all the time? How many of them are planes? How many of them are drones? And let's go through this, and then let's figure out, and then let's talk about how we bring drones down. If we interrupt and collect a lot of cellular signal through that, are we doing it with a warrant? What are we going to do with all the Americans' data that we've collected to take down drones? If we have to take a whole cell towers worth of data, there's a lot of innocent people's data is going to be collected in that. Is that being gotten rid of? So I think there are ways we can get to the right place. Everybody, obviously nobody wants drones coming down.
(02:19:55)
The only other thing I'd add on drones before I turn it over to Senator Lankford is look, I'm all for the NFL being protected and the Super Bowl being protected. They need to pay. They are a very rich organization. They want drones flying over in New Orleans? I'm all for it. The NFL ought to pay the government if the government's doing it, or we ought to have private contractors doing it, but they shouldn't just get it for free. Senator Lankford.
Senator Lankford (02:20:17):
Thank you. Thanks, again. As Senator Paul will remember on this, there used to be a public facing website that all Americans could actually get the data, what's happening on the border, what's actually moving, and then when the numbers got bad, that seemed to disappear, and then we couldn't even get the data anymore. So I look forward to actually finding ways to be able to have everybody has the ability to be able to see some of this data as well on it.
(02:20:40)
There's a reason that the DHS Secretary is the very first week of nominations. This is a really important role, and it is a non-partisan role. It is a national security role, and we're grateful that you've stepped into this, but it is important that we actually get you on the task to be able to make sure that it's out there.
(02:20:57)
You mentioned earlier in your testimony that we do have a morale problem at DHS right now, and I think a lot of that is because people that signed up to be federal law enforcement to be able to protect the United States of America have felt like they've been sidelined, and they've not been able to do their job that they really signed up for. And what I'm hearing from you is you're going to allow them to do their job again, what has been historically true for a long time, that federal law enforcement is there to actually help protect the country and the citizens and those communities, that you're going to allow them to do that, and that's helpful.
(02:21:29)
So I have two quick things that I want to be able to mention on this. One is right now, just in the structure of this, and we can talk about this a different time, but CBP facilities that are along the border are really run by a different entity called GSA, and they're not allowed to be able to do updates on their facilities or to design their facilities. Somebody who lives 3,000 miles away and who doesn't actually do border patrol work, they actually design and oversee their facilities. That's a problem that we've got to be able to fix.
(02:21:59)
So we've worked to be able to give more flexibility to CBP that when they have difficulty and challenges there, they have the ability to be able to make those changes. But I'm not going to ask you to make a commitment to this, because this is just one of those detail areas, but will you commit in the future to working with us, that this committee and you can work together to be able to figure out how the folks that are on the field can actually make decisions about the facilities they work in?
Kristi Noem (02:22:20):
Yeah. Senator, I commit to working with you on that issue.
Senator Lankford (02:22:23):
Terrific. And then I had a constituent in Oklahoma that is a hunter, like you are, like I am. He had a bag that he had some additional rounds that were in his bag that were left over from a hunting trip months before. He packed his bag, went on a vacation trip overseas, went through security with his bag. When he got overseas and then left and came back, they scanned his bag and said, "You have bullets, you have rounds in your bag," and he had I think five that were in his bag, that he didn't even remember were left over in an outside pocket from a hunting trip before.
(02:22:58)
Well, they promptly put him in jail and held him there and detained him there. Now, we worked through all the process to be able to get him back. My question is that same bag went through TSA security in my state before it went through security overseas. And so one of the questions that I've asked is why were those rounds picked up there and not here?
(02:23:21)
Now, we don't have the full answer to that yet, but that's just one of those TSA questions that we need to have. Americans right now are on planes all over the country, and they count on a certain level of security when they go through that process. So in the days ahead, will you work with me to be able to identify what are the challenges that we still face with the screening process and to be able to correct those for the security of all Americans?
Kristi Noem (02:23:44):
Yes, Senator, I will work with you on that.
Senator Lankford (02:23:45):
Thank you.
Kristi Noem (02:23:46):
I was surprised TSA didn't come up more today, but that is an area in need of reform as well, and I look forward to working with you there.
Senator Lankford (02:23:54):
Look forward to that. Thank you. I yield back.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:23:55):
Government needs a healthy dose of common sense. Bullets in your bag. I had a guy with bullets in the back of his pickup truck coming back from Mexico. We arrested him and took his truck, and only because the Institute of Justice fought for him for three years that he get his truck back. That's crazy, the things we do. Let's have some common sense, and hopefully, someone overseeing it will allow that. Senator Blumenthal, you're going to finish us up.
Senator Blumenthal (02:24:18):
Thank you, Chairman Paul. I'm the last of your questioners, so that means I get unlimited amounts of time.
Kristi Noem (02:24:28):
Okay.
Senator Blumenthal (02:24:28):
Not really. Not even close. I want to sort of continue the emphasis on bipartisanship and most especially on immigration reform. What this nation needs is comprehensive immigration reform. We know about the need for more H-1B visas and other kinds of extensions of the visa program that enable the United States to have more workers that are desperately needed in certain areas of our country. We know that there has to be better border security, generally. We know we need to provide some kind of path to earn citizenship for a lot of the undocumented people in this country, and we know it's possible, because we did it in 2013.
(02:25:22)
The United States Senate, as you will recall, passed a comprehensive immigration reform measure. Overwhelmingly, it was bipartisan. I was proud to be a part of it, going through the Judiciary Committee, but obviously it will involve Homeland Security, and I hope that we can continue, as Senator Lankford was a part of the effort in the last session to expand on those efforts and move forward on a bipartisan basis toward bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform.
(02:25:56)
I want to talk to you a little bit about domestic terrorism, which we discussed during my previous round, and I know you've discussed it afterward, including not just migrant crime and radicalization by ISIS, which are real and present problems, I also want to ask you about domestic terrorism events unrelated to groups outside our borders. We've seen a rise in antisemitism in this country. It has spiked beyond any prediction, and I want to know of your concern with antisemitist, racist events, Charlottesville, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, there's a shorthand for these violent terrorist acts against people in the United States.
Kristi Noem (02:26:51):
Yes, Senator, I'm very concerned about what we've seen in this country as far as antisemitic violence that has happened. In fact, last year during our legislative session, I brought legislation to more clearly define it so that we could fight it in our home state. And I'm hopeful I can work with you to continue to do what we can to make sure that we are addressing this rising threat and not facilitating it in this country.
Senator Blumenthal (02:27:15):
And I just want to make sure that when you say we're protecting Americans against terrorism, that we're protecting all Americans, including people in mosques, in churches, in synagogues, people regardless of their worship, their race, their background. We need to protect all Americans from antisemitism, racism, Islamophobia. I hope you'll commit to that effort.
Kristi Noem (02:27:43):
Yes, correct. Thank you, Senator, and I look forward to working with you to do that.
Senator Blumenthal (02:27:49):
In my closing minute-and-a-half, I just want to call your attention to an effort that I've led to help reunite children with their parents, children who were separated as a result of the so-called family separation policy. In the last administration, I have introduced a measure called Keep Families Together, not only to limit separation of families at or near ports of entry, but also the Families Belong Together Act for several Congresses to help bring the children, the kids who were victims of this policy and who still are not back with their parents. I hope that you will support that kind of effort.
Kristi Noem (02:28:43):
Senator, the Trump administration never had a family separation policy. They had a zero-tolerance policy, which said that our laws would be followed. What I'm alarmed by is the over 300,000 children that went missing during the Biden administration. And when we talk about children and what they're potentially facing as far as victimization in this country and the trafficking that's going on, this administration's lack of desire to find out where those children are or what they may be going through is alarming to me. So I want to stop that.
Senator Blumenthal (02:29:18):
Well, because my time is expiring, I'm just going to interrupt again with apologies to say let's put aside …
Kristi Noem (02:29:23):
Well, I can't put aside 340,000 children.
Senator Blumenthal (02:29:24):
Let's put aside the labels, let's put aside what happened in the past. There are still a thousand children who are separated and waiting to be reunited. I'd like your commitment that you're going to continue the effort to reunite them with their parents.
Kristi Noem (02:29:40):
Senator, keeping families together is critically important to me and to this country. I'm concerned about Laken Riley's family, that they no longer have her. I'm concerned about the fact that we have people in this country that don't know where their children are or people in other countries who sent their children here and they've been lost by this administration. So yes, my focus will be to keep families together. We will uphold our law, and we'll make sure that we're doing everything we can to keep our children safe from the trafficking and the drug epidemic that's hit this country.
Senator Blumenthal (02:30:10):
I'm going to end on an optimistic note and say I take that as a yes.
Kristi Noem (02:30:14):
Yeah.
Senator Blumenthal (02:30:14):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Rand Paul (02:30:15):
Thank you for your testimony. The nominee has filed responses to biographical and financial questionnaires, answered prehearing questions submitted by the committee, and had their financial statements reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection, this information will be part of the hearing record with the exception of the financial data, which are on file and available for public inspection in the committee offices. The hearing will remain open until 5:00 PM today, Friday, January 17th for the submission of statements and questions. For the record, this hearing is adjourned.