Jack Emmer (00:01):
November 21st, 2025 letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. December 10th, 2025, letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia.
Cheryl Mills (00:12):
You're fine.
Jack Emmer (00:14):
December 15th, 2025, letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. January 3rd, 2026, letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia. January 8th, 2026, letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. January 12th, 2026, letter from Ashley Callen and David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer. January 13th, 2026, letter from William J. Clinton and Secretary Hillary R. Clinton to Chairman Comer encompassing attached declarations under the penalty of perjury, both President Clinton and Secretary Clinton. January 20th, 2026, letter from Ashley Callen and David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer. January 31st, 2026 letter from Ashley Callen and Katherine M. Turner to Chairman Comer, and February 2nd, 2026 letter from Chairman Comer to Ashley Callen and Katherine M. Turner.
(01:17)
The committee originally noticed the deposition for President Clinton on December 12th, 2025. I will mark that notice as Exhibit 3. I will mark as Exhibit 4 the notice dated December 16th, 2025 for a deposition of President Clinton to occur on January 13th, 2026. President Clinton did not appear for his deposition on January 13th, 2026. I will enter as Exhibit 5 the transcript for the deposition that President Clinton failed to appear for.
(01:51)
The committee noticed a committee business meeting on January 14th, 2026 to consider the contempt report for President William J. Clinton held on January 21, 2026. I will mark that notice as Exhibit 6. I will mark as Exhibit 7 the contempt report for President William J. Clinton voted favorably out of the committee on oversight and government reform on January 21st, 2026. I will mark as Exhibit 8, the final roll call vote sheet on favorably reporting the contempt report of President William J. Clinton out of the committee on oversight and government reform on January 21st, 2026.
(02:33)
The committee noticed today's deposition on February 19th, 2026. I will enter the notice for this deposition as Exhibit 9. I will enter as exhibit 10 the email thread between committee on oversight and government reform staff and counsel for President Clinton and Secretary Clinton. The email thread confirms the date, time and location, among other terms of today's deposition. Additionally, this email thread clearly states the agreed upon terms, including but not limited to video recording, no predetermined time limit and scope.
(03:08)
The agreed upon scope from the email marked as Exhibit 10 is as follows. Pursuant to the committee's investigation into the alleged mismanagement of the federal government's investigation into Mr. Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell, the circumstances and subsequent investigations of Mr. Epstein's death, the operation of sex trafficking rings and ways for the federal government to effectively combat them, ways in which Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell sought to curry favor and exercise influence or protect their illegal activities and potential violations of ethics rules related to elected officials.
(03:46)
The committee will ask President Clinton and Secretary Clinton all of its questions regarding Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, including, but not limited to the personal relationships between the Clintons and Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell and the ways in which Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell sought to curry favor and exercise influence as well as the operation of sex trafficking rings and ways for the federal government to effectively combat them without the proposed limitations on scope sought in your January 31st, 2026 letter. Can the witness please state his name for the record?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:25):
William Jefferson Clinton.
Jack Emmer (04:27):
Thank you. My name is Jack Emmer and I am the chief counsel of investigations for Chairman Comer. Under the committee on oversight and government reforms rules, you are allowed to have counsel present to advise you during this deposition. Do you have counsel representing you in a personal capacity present with you today?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:47):
I do.
Jack Emmer (04:48):
Will counsel please identify themselves for the record?
David Kendall (04:51):
David Kendall, Williams & Connolly, LLP.
Katherine Turner (04:55):
Katherine Turner, Williams & Connolly, LLP.
Cheryl Mills (04:58):
Cheryl Mills, counsel to the president.
Jack Emmer (05:01):
Thank you. Starting with the majority, can members of Congress in attendance please identify themselves for the record?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Billy. [inaudible 00:05:10]
James Comer (05:13):
James Comer, chairman of the committee from Kentucky.
Nancy Mace (05:15):
Congresswoman Nancy Mace, South Carolina.
Eric Burlison (05:18):
Eric Burleson from Missouri.
John McGuire (05:20):
Congressman John McGuire, Virginia Five.
Anna Paulina Luna (05:22):
Congresswoman Ana Paulina Luna from Florida's 13th District.
William Timmons (05:25):
William Timmons, South Carolina.
Glenn Grothman (05:28):
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin.
Robert Garcia (05:30):
Ranking Member Garcia, California.
Melanie Stansbury (05:33):
Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico.
Suhas Subramanyam (05:36):
Congressman Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia's 11th, 10th.
Emily Randall (05:39):
Congresswoman Emily Randall, Washington State.
Yassamin Ansar (05:42):
Congresswoman Yassamin Ansar, Arizona's 3rd.
Maxwell Frost (05:45):
Congressman Maxwell Frost, Florida's 10th.
Wesley Bell (05:48):
Congressman Wesley Bell, [inaudible 00:05:51].
James Walkinshaw (05:52):
James Walkinshaw, Virginia's 11th District.
Ro Khanna (05:54):
Ro Khanna, California 17th.
Lauren Boebert (05:59):
Lauren Boebert, Colorado's 4th District.
Jack Emmer (06:02):
Thank you. For the record, starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation?
Billy Grant (06:11):
Billy Grant, deputy chief counsel for investigations for Chairman Comer.
Peter Spectre (06:15):
Peter Spectre, deputy director of oversight for Chairman Comer.
Daniel Ashworth (06:18):
Daniel Ashworth, general counsel for Chairman Comer.
Ryan Giachetti (06:21):
Ryan Giachetti, chief counsel for Chairman Comer.
Will Harness (06:24):
Will Harness, professional staff member for Chairman Comer.
Hannah Cathey (06:27):
Hannah Cathey, professional staff member for Chairman Comer.
Melvin Soto (06:31):
Melvin Soto, digital director for Chairman Comer.
Allison Coleman (06:35):
Allison Coleman, counsel for Chairman Comer.
Emily Feyerabend (06:36):
Emily Feyerabend, counsel for Chairman Comer.
Mark Marin (06:36):
Mark Marin, staff director for Chairman Comer.
Austin Hacker (06:48):
Austin Hacker, communications director for Chairman Comer.
Ashley Ginger (06:50):
Ashley Ginger, deputy staff director for Chairman Comer.
Jack Emmer (07:04):
Thank you, all. President Clinton, before we begin, I would like to go over the ground rules for this deposition. The questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions for an hour, and then the minority will have an opportunity to ask questions for an hour if they choose. To the extent members have questions for the witness, they will be propounded during their side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need to confer with counsel. Your counsel is speaking and when members or staff are speaking during the opposing side's rounds of questions. We will alternate back and forth until there are no more questions. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (07:40):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (07:41):
There is a court reporter taking down everything I say and everything you say to make a written record of the interview. For the record, to be clear, please wait until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until you finish your response before proceeding to the next question. Further, to ensure the court reporter can properly record this deposition, please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly.
(08:08)
Also, the court reporter cannot record nonverbal answers such as nodding or shaking your head, so it is important that you answer each question with an audible verbal answer. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (08:18):
I do.
Jack Emmer (08:20):
Exhibits may be entered into the record. Majority exhibits will be identified numerically. Minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (08:29):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (08:30):
We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible, so we will take our time. If you have any questions or do not fully understand the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add context too, or rephrase our questions. If we ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words or tales, you should testify to the substance of those conversations or events to the best of your recollection. If you recall only a part of a conversation or event, you should give us your best recollection of those events or parts of conversations that you do recall. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (09:12):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (09:13):
You are required by law to answer questions from Congress truthfully. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this deposition. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (09:23):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (09:24):
If at any time you knowingly make false statements, you could be subject to criminal prosecution, including but not limited to perjury. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (09:32):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (09:36):
This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but also stating that you do not recall or remember something when in fact you do. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (09:45):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (09:46):
Furthermore, you cannot tell half truths or exclude information necessary to make statements accurate. You are required to provide all information that would make your response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (10:03):
I do.
Jack Emmer (10:05):
Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful testimony in today's interview?
William Jefferson Clinton (10:09):
I don't believe so.
Jack Emmer (10:14):
Please note that if you wish to assert a privilege over any statement today, that assertion must comply with the rules of the [inaudible 00:10:22] oversight and government reform. Pursuant to that, Committee Rule 16C1 states, "For the chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance.
(10:42)
For the purposes of this deposition, objections must be stated concisely and in a non-argumentative or non-suggestive manner. If the witness refuses to answer a question to preserve a privilege, the committee may seek a ruling from the chair. If the chair overrules any such objection, the witness shall be ordered to answer. If the witness continues to refuse to answer a question despite being ordered to do so, the witness may be subject to sanction. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (11:10):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (11:12):
Ordinarily, we take a five-minute break at the end of each hour of questioning, but if you need a longer break or a break before that, please let us know and we will be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that there is a pending question, we would ask that you finish answering the question before we take a break. Do you understand?
William Jefferson Clinton (11:30):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (11:32):
Finally, I will note for everyone here today that the contents of what we discuss in the deposition today is confidential under the House Deposition Regulation. Under the rules, the chairman and ranking member shall consult before any release of testimony or transcripts, including portions thereof. This means it is a violation of house and committee rules to disclose the contents of the deposition prior to its official release. For this reason, the marked exhibits that we will use today will remain with the court reporter so that they can go into the official transcript and any copies of those exhibits will be kept at the table or returned to us when we wrap up. Can the reporter please swear in the witness?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
William Jefferson Clinton (12:27):
I do.
Jack Emmer (12:30):
Do you have any questions before we begin?
William Jefferson Clinton (12:31):
No.
Cheryl Mills (12:32):
I have a comment before we begin, please. Mr. Chairman, I want to start out by saying, as you know yesterday, there was a photo released, and I appreciate you assuring and admonishing to the committee and all of us of our obligations. Obviously, we want to ensure that that doesn't happen again. We've obviously experienced a number of deep fakes that have now been circulating on the web, not because of anything that the committee did, but because of the release of this particular photograph.
(13:01)
And for that reason, I would ask two things. One, a reminder to all that the obligation to maintain what is occurring in this room occurs, and two, a release of the video of the secretary's testimony as soon as possible, ideally today, which was in 24 hours, and the same for the president so that there are not deep fakes that are representing what is happening here when they actually have not.
James Comer (13:29):
Yeah. And let me say yesterday that was an unfortunate situation.
Cheryl Mills (13:34):
I appreciate it.
James Comer (13:34):
We had probably two things that shouldn't have happened. The release of the photo, as well as a Democrat member communicating with the New York Times. So I will, again, remind everyone to refrain from sending pictures or texting with media outlets outside. Melvin is our videographer and he's doing this today as well as producing the video, so we'll get them out hopefully as soon as possible, hopefully within the next 24 hours.
Cheryl Mills (14:02):
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. Nothing more.
Jack Emmer (14:06):
Mr. President, do you wish to provide an opening statement?
William Jefferson Clinton (14:10):
I do. It's brief. First of all, good morning and welcome to all of you to our hometown. I appreciate you coming here. I'm here today, basically, for two reasons. First of all, I love my country and the Constitution, and I believe America was built on the idea that no one is above the law, especially presidents, and that we should all live by the same set of rules shaped with the Constitution. Democracy requires every person to play their part, and I hope that by being here today, we can bring ourselves a little further away from the brink and back to being a country where we can disagree civilly and search for the truth and justice. And if that outweighs the partisan urge, spectacle and point scoring, I will do my part and I hope you'll do yours.
(15:21)
The second reason I'm here is that the girls and women whose lives Jeffrey Epstein destroyed, deserved not just justice, but healing. They've been waiting too long for both. Through my brief acquaintance with Jeffrey Epstein, though it ended years before his crimes came to light, and though I never witnessed during our limited interactions, any indication of what was going on, I'm here to offer what little I know so I can do my part to prevent something like this from happening again.
(16:04)
I have to say one personal thing since Hillary came in yesterday, she had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein, nothing. There's a picture of us both shaking hands with him in a photo line in 1993 at a fundraiser for the White House Historical Association. I don't know how it is under President Trump, but when I was there, it was about the most non-political operation you can imagine.
(16:35)
There were people who loved the White House who were interested in it, would give a little money every year to do things that needed doing around the house, and nothing nearly as extravagant as the ballroom or any of that, just things that had to be done. And neither she nor I remembered shaking his hand all those years ago.
(17:02)
So I don't think that was right. On the other hand, I do think you should be talking to me. I think you should have called me. I did take those plane trips with him, and you have a right to ask those questions. So I'm glad to be here and I understand what the oath is. I have to be honest with you. I'll be 80 years old if I lived on my next birthday. I don't remember everything that happened 24 years ago, but I do remember some things, and I will tell you what I remember as best I can.
(17:41)
We, each of us are the victims, nothing less than the truth and accuracy. We owe that to the American people. And I actually hope that you will be able to come up with some suggestions that will reduce human trafficking and especially focus on underage girls. I hope you'll be able to do that. I know that Hillary talked a little yesterday about what the State Department does and what she pushed on human trafficking and girls. When she was Secretary of State, we had to deal with it. And in my foundation, I saw it in Nigeria when Boko Haram was rampaging through the north of Nigeria and we were working there trying to stop deaths from diarrhea for the young children.
(18:54)
And it was interesting, these guys were cold and calculated. They said, "Oh, you don't have to leave because of the kids who are helping are younger than the ones we want. They have to be about nine before they're worth anything to us." So this is really important and I will do what I can to make whatever contribution I can. Thank you.
Jack Emmer (19:24):
Thank you. The time reads 11:28 and the majority's time will begin now. Mr. President, thank you for agreeing to testify today and for your years of service to our country. I want to start from the beginning. When did you first meet Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (19:55):
Well, I will try in this testimony and I will point it out when I'm aware there's a picture or something that predates this. There's a picture where it shows him shaking hands in the White House Historical Association reception. That was in 1993, but I'm not aware of that. I first remember meeting him when I got on his airplane to take the first trip with my foundation in, I think, 2002, whenever it was.
Jack Emmer (20:38):
And to be clear, do you have any reason to believe that you may have met Mr. Epstein prior to becoming president of the United States?
William Jefferson Clinton (20:48):
Before I became president? No.
Jack Emmer (20:53):
And you mentioned that your first memory of interacting with Mr. Epstein was on your first trip. Which trip specifically?
William Jefferson Clinton (21:06):
I'm not sure which one it was, which one was the first. I took all or parts of four or five trips to Asia and Africa and one to north of Europe on Mr. Epstein's airplane. And once when I was in Florida, I was offered a ride back to New York, but I wasn't there having... and it was just coincidental that he was there. I think that was fairly early in the process. I don't remember exactly. I just know that I did. I took one flight back from Florida to New York and all or part of several other, I think, four or five trips to Africa, Asia, and one to Northern Europe.
Jack Emmer (22:06):
I want to make sure the record is clear. Is it your testimony today that you have no independent recollection whatsoever of the circumstances of when you first met Mr. Epstein?
David Kendall (22:18):
Objection. Asked and answered. You can answer again.
William Jefferson Clinton (22:21):
Yes. I do have a recollection of when I remember meeting him before this trip. I mean, on this trip when I took his plane.
Jack Emmer (22:34):
Mr. President, we're going to discuss more specifics later, but for the record, can you briefly describe the nature and extent of your relationship with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (22:49):
Well, sometime after I left the White House either in late 2001 or early-ish 2002, I received a call from Larry Summers, who had been on my economic team and was later secretary of treasurer and was then president of Harbor. And he said that he was calling because a man named Jeffrey Epstein who had made a substantial commitment of several million dollars, I think it was 10, but whatever it was, the brain research and that he was a information hungry person and he wanted to spend some time talking to me about economics and politics. And he said he's got this massive airplane and he said he would take you, your staff, your Secret Service detail, and anybody else you wanted to bring on the trips that he knew I was planning to set up a global network to provide lifesaving AIDS medicine to as many people as possible, as quickly as possible."
(24:16)
And I should back up and say, when I left office, we had done all the preliminary work to set up the global funds on HTV malaria, but it was not yet funded. And there were other instruments and institutions who were later founded, including President Bush's PEPFAR program. It had not yet been funded. There were only 200,000 people in the entire developing world who had AIDS medicine, most of them in Brazil, which had a big drug operation on its own, and in Thailand, which also had its own drug population.
(25:06)
In Africa, there were like 30,000 people or something, just next to no people, and they were done like flies. And I thought we had found a way to drastically drive the price down, and that if we could drive the price down, we could empower people to administer the medicine right, we could save a lot of lives, and I was obsessed with it, and I was being helped by a man named Ira Magaziner who had helped us in the White House in whom I had known since we lived as road scholars together in 1960s. So anyway, that's why when Larry Summers said this, I thought, "Well, this would be great." And so we followed up and took the trips.
Jack Emmer (26:07):
Mr. President, when did your relationship with Mr. Epstein end?
William Jefferson Clinton (26:14):
When did it end? Well, I believe I took my last flight in 2003. Now, later, I became aware of some involvement he had in the first Clinton Global Initiative, but it was much later.
Jack Emmer (26:43):
Why did your relationship with Mr. Epstein end?
William Jefferson Clinton (26:50):
Well, after a year or two, we really picked up ahead of team with this AIDS program and a lot of other people whom I knew better and who really cared about the work came forward and offered to help us provide transportation. And I thought Mr. Epstein was an interesting man, but he... I didn't think he was really interested in what I was doing, but as he asked all these questions, he did ask about economics and politics as he said he would, and he never asked me anything untoward. It's just that I didn't think... I thought I had done what I promised to do and he had done what he promised to do.
(27:45)
I'd always, over the years, with these donors, trying not to overstay my welcome. I thought that we'd done enough, and then it was time to start working with other people.
Jack Emmer (28:03):
When did you first learn of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes?
William Jefferson Clinton (28:09):
I think in 2008 when he was prosecuted. There was nothing that I saw when I was around him that made me realize he was trafficking women, and I never...
Jack Emmer (28:34):
Let's talk about Ghislaine Maxwell. When did you first meet Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (28:41):
I believe I first met her with him, when she was working with him.
Jack Emmer (28:49):
And what did you understand Ms. Maxwell... And what did you understand her relationship to be with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (28:57):
I thought she was his chief of staff or administrator.
Jack Emmer (29:05):
And you said that you first met Ms. Maxwell with Mr. Epstein. Is that after you were president?
William Jefferson Clinton (29:16):
Yeah. I don't believe I met her when I was president. I could have. I met a lot of people that I don't remember, but I definitely remember meeting her on that first flight.
Jack Emmer (29:29):
Can you briefly, for the record, describe the nature and extent of your relationship with Ms. Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (29:36):
Yes, it lasted longer and was more extensive than my relationship with Mr. Epstein because Ghislaine Maxwell started going with a man named Ted Waitt, who had made a lot of them money making the first sort of self-designed computers and he was a big supporter of mine and the foundation before he started seeing Glen. We had been friends and he was interested in particularly in reducing pollution in the oceans. And so when she started going with him, I would see her from time to time.
Jack Emmer (30:44):
And when did your relationship with Ms. Maxwell end?
William Jefferson Clinton (30:49):
I don't think I've seen her in a decade. It's been a long time. I don't know exactly when.
Jack Emmer (30:55):
Why did your relationship with Ms. Maxwell end?
William Jefferson Clinton (31:01):
Well, at first she moved to Boston, I think. She had a relationship with a man there and I think they may have married. And so she wasn't so much around. And she... Then when it became... After 2019, when it became... Obviously, she was involved too, to an extent that I did not know that was the end of it.
Jack Emmer (31:43):
And I want to make sure the record is clear. You mentioned that your relationship with Ms. Maxwell was more extensive than that of Mr. Epstein.
William Jefferson Clinton (31:52):
Well, it lasted longer, yes.
Jack Emmer (31:53):
Okay. Do you have any recollection of what year it would've ended?
William Jefferson Clinton (32:00):
No, but when she was with Ted Waitt, she was when we were kicking off CGI. She was very interested in that and she participated, but I don't remember... I don't know. It's been 10, 12 years since I saw her. I don't remember when the last time was.
Jack Emmer (32:26):
Thank you. I am going to ask you some baseline questions regarding who you communicated with and about what. If you don't recall specifics, but do you recall you communicated with them, you should answer yes, but say you do not recall specifics.
David Kendall (32:43):
Counsel, could I just ask, if you're going down a list, your question is, did he communicate with the person yes or no? And then you'll come back if he says yes to ask further?
Jack Emmer (32:52):
Yes.
David Kendall (32:52):
Thank you.
Jack Emmer (32:53):
And I will finish the prompt here too. So the question, Mr. President, have you ever communicated with any of the following people regarding Mr. Jeffrey Epstein or Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell? And for now, you can say yes or no, and we will come back to discuss each one.
Cheryl Mills (33:10):
And this is to the best of his recollection, yeah?
Jack Emmer (33:11):
Correct.
Cheryl Mills (33:12):
Okay. Thanks.
William Jefferson Clinton (33:12):
Okay.
Jack Emmer (33:15):
First, Richard Kahn?
William Jefferson Clinton (33:18):
Richard who?
Jack Emmer (33:18):
Kahn.
William Jefferson Clinton (33:19):
T-O-D-D?
Jack Emmer (33:21):
K-A-H-N.
William Jefferson Clinton (33:25):
I don't know who that is.
Jack Emmer (33:28):
Darren Indyke?
William Jefferson Clinton (33:29):
Indyke?
Jack Emmer (33:33):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (33:34):
I don't know who that is.
Jack Emmer (33:37):
Sarah Kellen?
William Jefferson Clinton (33:40):
I don't know who that is.
Jack Emmer (33:44):
Huma Abedin?
William Jefferson Clinton (33:45):
Yes.
David Kendall (33:48):
Excuse me. Mr. President, the question is, as I understand it, name the people you communicated to about Epstein and Maxwell.
William Jefferson Clinton (33:57):
Oh, obviously I know
William Jefferson Clinton (34:00):
Very well. I don't remember any specific conversations we ever had about Epstein and Maxwell.
Jack Emmer (34:11):
Noam Chomsky?
William Jefferson Clinton (34:13):
No. Mr. Chomsky wasn't a big fan of mine. He thought I was too conservative.
Jack Emmer (34:22):
Lesley Groff.
William Jefferson Clinton (34:26):
Lesley who?
Jack Emmer (34:27):
Groff.
William Jefferson Clinton (34:29):
I'm sorry. I don't know who that is.
Jack Emmer (34:33):
Nada Marcinkova.
William Jefferson Clinton (34:33):
I don't know who that is.
Jack Emmer (34:39):
Jean-Luc Brunel?
William Jefferson Clinton (34:42):
I don't know who that is. I don't believe.
Jack Emmer (34:44):
Alan Dershowitz.
William Jefferson Clinton (34:46):
I know him. And I'm not aware that we ever talked about Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. I don't believe we did.
Jack Emmer (35:05):
Reid Hoffman.
William Jefferson Clinton (35:07):
I know Reid Hoffman, but he never talked to me about Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell.
Jack Emmer (35:16):
Karyna Shuliak.
William Jefferson Clinton (35:19):
I don't believe I know who that is. I don't think I've ever met that person.
Jack Emmer (35:27):
Woody Allen.
William Jefferson Clinton (35:30):
I do know who he is, but I don't think I ever met him and I never talked to him about Epstein or Maxwell.
Jack Emmer (35:38):
Sandy Berger?
William Jefferson Clinton (35:41):
Sandy Berger was my national security advisor. And we were very close personally, but he's been dead for several years. And I don't think I ever talked to him about either one of those people.
Jack Emmer (35:57):
Jes Staley?
William Jefferson Clinton (35:59):
Jes Staley?
Jack Emmer (36:01):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (36:03):
No.
Jack Emmer (36:08):
Paul Morris?
William Jefferson Clinton (36:08):
I don't believe I know him.
Jack Emmer (36:08):
LED Rothschild?
William Jefferson Clinton (36:17):
Who Rothschild?
Jack Emmer (36:17):
LED Rothschild?
William Jefferson Clinton (36:26):
LED. I know Evelyn Rothschild. Is that who it is?
Jack Emmer (36:35):
No. And I have other Rothschild on this list as well.
William Jefferson Clinton (36:38):
I'm not sure who LED Rothschild. I've met a bunch of them when I spoke at the funeral for Evelyn Rothschild and I had met some of the others, the one couple in France once, 20 years ago, but I don't remember him.
Jack Emmer (36:59):
Okay. Lynn Forester or Rothschild?
William Jefferson Clinton (37:02):
Yes. I know her, but I don't remember ever discussing Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell with her.
Jack Emmer (37:14):
Glenn Dubin.
William Jefferson Clinton (37:17):
I don't believe I know him.
Jack Emmer (37:21):
Eva Andersson?
William Jefferson Clinton (37:23):
I don't believe I know her.
Jack Emmer (37:25):
Casey Wasserman.
William Jefferson Clinton (37:28):
I know him. And he was on a trip to Africa with me, but I don't recall ever discussing either Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein with him.
Jack Emmer (37:53):
Ira Magaziner?
William Jefferson Clinton (37:55):
Yes. I think I mentioned him earlier.
(37:58)
He was the person who basically helped me start the AIDS program and he ran the Clinton Health Access Initiative for many years. He retired a couple of years ago, a few years ago. But I don't remember ever discussing either Epstein or Rothschild with him, I mean, or Maxwell with him.
Jack Emmer (38:26):
Karen Ewing?
William Jefferson Clinton (38:29):
No.
Jack Emmer (38:30):
Stacy Plaskett.
William Jefferson Clinton (38:35):
Stacy Plaskett is the member of Congress from the Virgin Islands, isn't she?
Jack Emmer (38:40):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (38:42):
I know her, but I don't recall ever discussing Epstein or Maxwell.
Jack Emmer (38:50):
Howard Lutnick?
William Jefferson Clinton (38:53):
Howard Lutnick is the Secretary of Commerce, right?
Jack Emmer (38:56):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (39:03):
I know him and from 9/11, and because Hillary worked with his company and helped him to get going again. And I know he's now President Trump's Secretary of Commerce, but I don't remember ever having any conversation with him about Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell.
Jack Emmer (39:29):
Doug Band.
William Jefferson Clinton (39:31):
He worked for me for years. And I know that he arranged airplane flights and things like that, and was doing work on the first Clinton Global Initiative in 2005. And I know that he knew both Epstein and Maxwell. I do not know to what extent he was in contact with them. And I've heard things in the last thing I didn't have any idea of 24 years ago. So you'd have to be more specific. If you want to know if I knew something then, I can tell you as best I can, but I...
Jack Emmer (40:17):
We'll go back.
William Jefferson Clinton (40:19):
He worked for me and I knew some of what he was doing and I didn't know some of what he was doing.
Jack Emmer (40:25):
Thank you. And we will return to Mr. Band. Louis Freeh or Louis Freeh?
William Jefferson Clinton (40:33):
I do know him. To the best of my knowledge, I didn't have any conversation with him about anything practically, but I certainly didn't talk to him about this.
Jack Emmer (40:53):
Robert Rubin.
William Jefferson Clinton (40:57):
Bob Rubin was Larry Summers' predecessor as treasury secretary, and the first director of the National Economic Council. But I don't even know if he knew Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. I had no conversation with him about it.
Jack Emmer (41:19):
And for now, Mr. President, you can answer it yes or no.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:22):
Okay.
Cheryl Mills (41:22):
And the yes or no is intended to convey whether or not you had a conversation about Elaine Maxwell or Jeffrey.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:30):
Right. So the answer to Rubin is no.
Jack Emmer (41:33):
Larry Summers.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:35):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (41:38):
Pete Rathgeb.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:41):
Pete who?
Jack Emmer (41:42):
Rathgeb.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:46):
Rathko? R-A-T-H-K-O.
Jack Emmer (41:47):
R-A-T-H-G-E-B.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:50):
Oh, Rathgeb. I don't recall that name.
Jack Emmer (41:53):
John Podesta.
William Jefferson Clinton (41:59):
I don't believe I ever had a talk with John about it. I did stay in touch with John Podesta after I left the White House and I consider him a friend, but I don't believe we ever discussed Epstein or Maxwell
Jack Emmer (42:12):
Andrew Friendly?
William Jefferson Clinton (42:17):
No, he was one of my, what you call body men at the White House. And we've stayed in touch over the years, but I don't remember discussing Epstein or Maxwell with him.
Jack Emmer (42:28):
Kathryn Ruemmler?
William Jefferson Clinton (42:31):
Kathey Ruemmler is a lawyer who has done some on occasion, some help for the foundation. I don't believe I ever discussed Maxwell or Epstein with her, but I can't be sure, but I don't remember doing it.
Cheryl Mills (42:50):
Mr. President, they're only asking you what you can remember.
William Jefferson Clinton (42:52):
What?
Cheryl Mills (42:53):
They're only asking you what you can remember.
Jack Emmer (42:56):
Mark Middleton.
William Jefferson Clinton (43:00):
I did not. And he sadly is dead now.
Jack Emmer (43:09):
Bill Richardson.
William Jefferson Clinton (43:11):
No. He's dead too now, sadly, but I didn't know about his relationship with Epstein.
Jack Emmer (43:25):
George Mitchell.
William Jefferson Clinton (43:28):
No.
Jack Emmer (43:29):
Bill Gates?
William Jefferson Clinton (43:32):
No.
Jack Emmer (43:33):
Leon Black?
William Jefferson Clinton (43:39):
No.
Jack Emmer (43:40):
Ehud Barak?
William Jefferson Clinton (43:40):
No.
Jack Emmer (43:41):
Tony Blair?
William Jefferson Clinton (43:43):
No.
Jack Emmer (43:46):
Andrew Mountbatten Windsor?
William Jefferson Clinton (43:52):
I knew that he knew... At some point, I knew that he knew Ghislaine Maxwell, but I did not know... I don't think that he knew Epstein.
Jack Emmer (44:12):
So is that a yes that you had communications with him?
William Jefferson Clinton (44:16):
No, we never had any ...
Cheryl Mills (44:19):
Is your question communications about Epstein and Maxwell?
Jack Emmer (44:22):
Correct.
Cheryl Mills (44:24):
Just generally as a conversation like you're together?
Jack Emmer (44:26):
Yes.
Cheryl Mills (44:27):
Can you just elaborate more so he can better answer your question?
Jack Emmer (44:30):
Mr. President, did you ever have any communications with Prince Andrew related to Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (44:41):
The direct answer to your question is no, but I don't want to mislead you. I know that because of my friendship with Evelyn and Lynn Rothschild and because the former Prince was around them, and they knew Ghislaine Maxwell from Britain and through her father, her late father, there may have been some conversation there. I don't remember it, but I don't want to mislead you. I knew something that...
Jack Emmer (45:24):
Thank you.
Cheryl Mills (45:24):
Your question, because it's so broad, means that any social engagement that you might have would be captured. So I think what he's trying to distinguish between is what you're trying to learn and just social engagement.
Jack Emmer (45:34):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (45:35):
If I had a social engagement with Andrew.
Jack Emmer (45:38):
Related to Mr. Epstein.
William Jefferson Clinton (45:40):
Not related to him, no.
Jack Emmer (45:41):
Thank you. Peter Mandelson.
William Jefferson Clinton (45:44):
No.
Jack Emmer (45:47):
Mohammed bin Salman.
William Jefferson Clinton (45:51):
No.
Jack Emmer (45:53):
Larry Page?
William Jefferson Clinton (45:56):
No.
Jack Emmer (45:57):
Sergey Bryn?
William Jefferson Clinton (45:58):
No.
Jack Emmer (46:02):
So let's talk about Larry Summers. You mentioned that you had communications with him related to Maxwell and Epstein. What were the nature of those two?
Cheryl Mills (46:11):
For the record, he said with Epstein, just him.
William Jefferson Clinton (46:15):
Just Epstein.
Jack Emmer (46:16):
Just Epstein. Thank you. You mentioned that you had communications with Larry Summers related to Mr. Epstein. Can you describe the nature of those communications?
William Jefferson Clinton (46:27):
Yes. As I said before, he called me on the phone. He knew what I was trying to do with his AIDS work and how important it was to me. And he said he had just talked to Jeffrey Epstein, who he's described as a successful investment advisor, who made a lot of money and had made a large commitment to Harvard to bring research.
(46:59)
And he said "He wants to talk to you about politics and economics," and he says, "If you will take an hour on the longer legs of these trips he knows you're going to make to Africa and Asia, to talk to him about it, that he will fly you on his airplane and your staff and your Secret Service detail and any other people you want to take who are supporting your work."
Jack Emmer (47:32):
And you mentioned these communications related to the work of your foundation. Did you ever have any other communications with Larry Summers related to Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (47:41):
No.
Jack Emmer (47:42):
So for the record, you never discussed anything related to Mr. Epstein and young women or girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (47:49):
Absolutely not.
Jack Emmer (47:55):
Mr. President, for the record, have you ever been contacted by any law enforcement agency concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (48:10):
As far as I know, no. That is as far as I remember. Back in 2008, I sort of thought somebody might ask me something because I...
(48:25)
And I was glad this had come out since it had happened, but I don't believe anybody ever did.
Jack Emmer (48:33):
You mentioned that you thought someone would want to ask you something. Can you elaborate on what that means?
William Jefferson Clinton (48:39):
Just because he let me use his airplane.
Jack Emmer (48:45):
And to be clear, have you ever provided any information to any law enforcement agency concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell?
Cheryl Mills (48:58):
You asked this question before, you're just asking him to reiterate the response to the question that he previously asked you, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (49:05):
I don't... I don't believe any law enforcement agency has ever asked me, and I don't... I didn't know enough to volunteer anything.
Jack Emmer (49:15):
Mr. President, are you aware of any efforts by anyone, including an attorney, process server, investigator, or any other person to contact you regarding any civil lawsuit, claim, or litigation involving Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (49:32):
Not that I recall.
Jack Emmer (49:35):
Did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform or represent to you that he was working with any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States?
William Jefferson Clinton (49:45):
No.
Jack Emmer (49:46):
Did Ghislaine Maxwell ever inform or represent to you that she was working with any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States?
William Jefferson Clinton (49:55):
No.
Jack Emmer (49:56):
And during your relationship, did you ever suspect Epstein or Maxwell of being affiliated with any intelligence agency?
William Jefferson Clinton (50:05):
I did not.
Jack Emmer (50:08):
Thank you.
(50:16)
I want to talk about your time in the White House. I realize that you have testified your recollection is limited, but did Mr. Epstein ever visit the White House while you were president?
congresswoman (50:29):
Objection. Asked and answered.
William Jefferson Clinton (50:33):
The records reflect that he did.
congresswoman (50:35):
That's not the question.
Jack Emmer (50:37):
According to FOIA requests to the Clinton Library, Mr. Epstein visited the White House at least 17 times between 1993 and 1995. Do you have any reason to dispute those numbers?
William Jefferson Clinton (50:49):
Nope. I don't.
Jack Emmer (50:55):
Do you know what the nature of Mr. Epstein's visits to the White House were?
Cheryl Mills (51:02):
Are you asking what he knew in preparation for today? Can you clarify what you are seeking to learn?
William Jefferson Clinton (51:09):
First of all, at the time, I had no idea he was coming and going. Huge numbers of people come and go in the White House. A lot of them come well over once, especially if they're lobbyists, for example. But I didn't know he was coming, so I certainly didn't know what he was coming about.
Jack Emmer (51:34):
Mr. President, after you left office, did you or your staff ever conduct a review of records, documents, or other materials related to Mr. Epstein's connections to your White House?
congresswoman (51:49):
You're exempting, counsel. You can respond to that, but don't say anything about what you talked to your lawyers about. You can respond to his question.
Cheryl Mills (51:59):
Do you need the question again?
William Jefferson Clinton (52:01):
Yeah. I don't even understand. You mean, did we look into what he did in the White House after I left office?
Jack Emmer (52:07):
Mr. President, one of the concerns of the committee is how Mr. Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell attempted or potentially attempted to curry favor with influential figures.
(52:16)
My question was, after he left office, did you or your staff ever conduct a review of records related to Mr. Epstein's connections to your White House?
William Jefferson Clinton (52:27):
To the best of my knowledge, no.
Jack Emmer (52:34):
At this time, I would like to introduce will be marked as Majority Exhibit 11.
(52:42)
And while it's being passed out, I will note for the record, this is a New York Times article entitled The Untold Story of How Jeffrey Epstein Got Rich, published on December 16th, 2025. And when you receive the article, I want to direct your attention to the last paragraph of page 31.
Cheryl Mills (53:08):
The last paragraph of which page?
Jack Emmer (53:09):
31.
(53:14)
And when you are ready, I will also read it into the record.
(53:17)
( silence)
(54:05)
Again, we are looking at page 31 in the last paragraph, and I will read it into the record and ask you a few questions.
Cheryl Mills (54:17):
Please give him a moment to read this.
(54:19)
( silence)
William Jefferson Clinton (54:59):
I see this.
Cheryl Mills (55:01):
This is the paragraph he wants.
Jack Emmer (55:03):
Mr. President, the article reads, "By 1995, Clinton and Epstein were sufficiently chummy that he wrote a get well soon note to Epstein's ailing mother. "Hang in there," the president scrawled on a yellow post-it, which Epstein saved and we reviewed."
(55:22)
Mr. President, did you write this note?
Cheryl Mills (55:26):
Are you asking if he recalls writing this note from 1995 on a post-it?
Jack Emmer (55:31):
Correct.
Cheryl Mills (55:31):
Okay, thanks.
William Jefferson Clinton (55:32):
It looks like my handwriting, but I don't recall, but I will tell you this.
(55:40)
I have written get well notes to lots of people I did not know, and had never met.
Jack Emmer (55:47):
And you answered my next question. Did you ever meet Jeffrey Epstein's mother or any of his family members?
William Jefferson Clinton (55:57):
No, I'm not sure that I was asked to do this by Jeffrey Epstein.
Jack Emmer (56:03):
And I want to focus specifically on the article's characterization. It says that you were chummy with Mr. Epstein in 1995. Is that accurate?
congresswoman (56:13):
I'm going to object to that characterization. It's hearsay. President may answer.
William Jefferson Clinton (56:18):
No. I was surprised by that.
Jack Emmer (56:30):
Let's talk about your relationship with Mr. Epstein after you left the White House.
William Jefferson Clinton (56:35):
Okay.
Jack Emmer (56:35):
How would you characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (56:45):
During the time I was... It was cordial.
Jack Emmer (56:51):
At any time, would you characterize Mr. Epstein as a friend?
William Jefferson Clinton (56:57):
We were friendly, but I didn't know him well enough to be saying we were friends.
Jack Emmer (57:02):
How often did you communicate with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (57:08):
Usually only on the trips. I did go to his house once, as you know.
Jack Emmer (57:15):
And we will discuss that further later on today. And how did you typically communicate with Mr. Epstein? Did you talk to him on the phone?
Cheryl Mills (57:25):
Excuse me. He just said he talked to him on the trips, so that's in person.
William Jefferson Clinton (57:29):
Typically, my staff communicated with him. I think it was mostly Mr. Band, but somebody talked to him.
Jack Emmer (57:40):
And you mentioned that you visited one of his properties, but outside of the work on the foundation and your trips, how many times did you meet, in-person, with Mr. Epstein?
Cheryl Mills (57:55):
You're asking him to the best of his recollection?
William Jefferson Clinton (57:57):
Outside of the trips, I believe he came to the office once in Harlem. I was still housed up there then, and I think he paid a brief visit to the office, and I paid a brief visit to his house, but... I once thought he was there, but now that I think about it, I don't think he was, and that was it.
(58:32)
I mean, I didn't ...
(58:36)
That's what I remember.
Jack Emmer (58:38):
And you mentioned you visited Mr. Epstein's house. Are you referring to his New York townhouse?
William Jefferson Clinton (58:44):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (58:45):
In your communications with Mr. Epstein, did you ever have any communications that were not related to the foundation?
William Jefferson Clinton (59:00):
I don't... I don't believe we ever talked about anything, but the work we were doing, I mean, maybe small talk, I can't imagine. I don't remember the conversations.
Jack Emmer (59:10):
And for the record, before we move on, did you ever have any communications with Mr. Epstein that related to young women or girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (59:20):
No.
Cheryl Mills (59:26):
Excuse me. Do you have your...
(59:28)
Fantastic. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (59:30):
Am I good?
Jack Emmer (59:40):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Good morning, Mr. President. How are you?
William Jefferson Clinton (59:43):
I'm fine.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
I want to first start out by asking you, have you ever been or traveled on... Or has Huma Abedin ever traveled on Epstein's plane?
Jack Emmer (59:58):
If you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:00:02):
I don't know. She might have taken one of the trips with us, but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Okay. So have you flown on a plane with her?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:00:10):
Oh, several times.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Several times?
Cheryl Mills (01:00:12):
Can you say have you flown on a plane, any plane?
Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
The Lolita Express.
Cheryl Mills (01:00:17):
What is that?
(01:00:17)
When you say that?
Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Have you flown on the Lolita Express with Jeff Epstein?
congresswoman (01:00:21):
Objection.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:00:22):
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Have you flown on Jeffrey Epstein's plane with Huma Abedin?
congresswoman (01:00:30):
Asked and answered. You may answer again.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:00:31):
I don't ... I don't remember, but it's ... But I have flown ... She's been sort of a part of our family for a very long time, so I... When I went to the Middle East, which I don't think I ever took a plane ride with Jeffrey Epstein, but she would typically go when I did.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
So have you traveled with both of them together?
congresswoman (01:00:54):
Excuse me, both of whom, Congresswoman?
Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Of course. Have you traveled with Jeffrey Epstein and Huma Abedin together?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:01:03):
I do not know.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Okay. Thank you.
(01:01:08)
If the staff can please pass out EFTA 0021628, and the rest of the documents I have them print regarding passports to the president and counsel.
Jack Emmer (01:01:24):
This will be Exhibit 12.
Cheryl Mills (01:01:26):
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Mr. President, if you look at the passport page, the bottom of the document should show the EFTA number. It's 00021628.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:01:55):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
There's a name on there. Would you be able to read that name to me?
Cheryl Mills (01:01:59):
Can you read the name?
congresswoman (01:02:00):
Excuse me, Congresswoman. Will you ask me if I have ever seen the document before?
Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Yes. Well, this is evidence, and so I wanted to ask him specifically, so it's from the DOJ document release, right?
congresswoman (01:02:09):
I understand, but he may not have seen it or he may have seen it.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:02:12):
No, I've never seen it, but it looks like a passport.
Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Okay. Can you tell me the name that's listed on the passport?
Cheryl Mills (01:02:20):
Excuse me. He's never seen this document. Would you just read the name please?
Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Yes. The name is Marius Robert.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:02:26):
Marius Robert, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Are you familiar with that name at all?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:02:30):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Okay. Would you be able to identify the individual in the photo?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:02:37):
It looks like Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Okay. The reason I ask you about this specifically is because I do believe that Jeffrey Epstein was an intelligence operative, and so this was a passport that was actually entered and released by the Department of Justice, but this was an FBI filing that was found in his safe, if you will. So it's an alias.
(01:02:56)
The reason I ask you that is because given your nature and position, I'm wondering if you were essentially targeted by a honeypot operation, and/or by intelligence to gather information.
(01:03:08)
So that's why I asked you that question.
congresswoman (01:03:10):
[inaudible 01:03:11] is not a question pending.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:03:11):
Is there a question?
congresswoman (01:03:11):
No. You can ask a question.
Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Well, I'll be getting to more, but that's the reason I ask that.
(01:03:18)
Okay. My next question for you is, have you ever had contact with an individual by the name of Shante Davies?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:03:30):
I believe Shante was... That's a distinctive name. So I think that was the name of one of his flight attendants.
Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Okay. She's been described on being on a 2002 Africa trip and providing massages. Was she or any other young female on that trip underage at that time?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:03:45):
Not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Okay. Did you ever receive a massage or have physical contact from her or anyone else on that trip?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:03:56):
You've seen the pictures. There was one time when I was sitting up and I got a back rub, a neck rub.
Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:04:04):
And I think Shante did it, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Okay. Did you ever visit Epstein's Little St. James Island?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:04:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
We have Virginia Giuffre who has testified seeing you on the island with two young girls.
(01:04:19)
Did this occur at all?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:04:21):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Okay. Why do you think she would've made that claim?
congresswoman (01:04:24):
Objection. Speculation. He can't possibly...
Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Have you ever met her, any other Epstein-associated underage girl?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:04:33):
Not to my knowledge.
Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Okay. In Epstein's 2016 deposition unsealed in the TOJ files, he refused to answer if you were accompanied by two young women who are approximately 18 years old on the island. Were any such women potentially underage with you? I know you've stated that you were not there, but did you have any interaction with the set of people?
congresswoman (01:04:56):
Objection to the foundation of the question. He's already stated he was not on the island. You're now asking about a claim of the Fifth Amendment by Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Okay. Would the staff be able...
Jack Emmer (01:05:05):
If the witness doesn't know, the witness is welcome to say he doesn't know.
Cheryl Mills (01:05:08):
No, but he actually answered the question. He answered questions that wasn't on the island, so then she was asked.
Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Okay. Do you know an individual by the name of Sarah Ransome?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:05:19):
I don't believe so.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Okay. There have obviously been claims made about you, and I do not believe that these claims are credible.
(01:05:31)
The reason I am asking you specifically about that name is because that individual stated that you were in sex tapes, okay? It was unfounded and it was discredited.
(01:05:42)
But given the politicization of this entire investigation, do you believe that it would be appropriate of members of this committee to bring in witnesses, whether it is about you or another president, that have unfounded allegations regarding sexual claims of misconduct?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:06:01):
That's not a decision for me to make.
Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
As a recommendation in regards to avoiding trafficking, et cetera, and bringing justice for the victims, would you make that recommendation to this committee?
congresswoman (01:06:13):
Just so I understand the question, you're saying if the witness has unfounded claims?
Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Well, I don't believe that Sarah Ransome's claims about the president are founded. I don't believe that there's sex tapes with you, President Clinton.
congresswoman (01:06:24):
No, I'm just asking about your question. You're not asking if somebody with plausible claims should be brought in. You're asking if somebody with implausible, unfounded claims?
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Correct, because these claims were found to be unfounded by investigators.
Cheryl Mills (01:06:38):
So are you asking his opinion?
Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Yes, because we are trying to figure out in regards to being able to further this investigation and whether or not we are going to be interviewing other individuals regarding sex trafficking, avoiding in the future. I know that you and your wife have both been big on this issue.
(01:06:53)
So I'm asking you, would you think that it would be appropriate that this committee bring in someone like Sarah Ransome who has unfounded claims that have been debunked in this investigation? It's a simple question.
Cheryl Mills (01:07:05):
He answered this question when you first asked it then when he said that it wasn't for him to make those decisions.
Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Well, I'm asking for his recommendation to the committee in follow up. It's not a gotcha question. This is obviously a very serious investigation.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:07:20):
Well, first of all, I recommend that you have on your staff a prosecutor who's had a lot of experience in this dealing with these cases.
(01:07:35)
Normally, it's not a good idea to bring in a witness that you know is lying.
Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Okay. Thank you for that. My last questions for you are, are you familiar with anyone by the name of Adriana Ross?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:07:50):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
How about Sarah Kellen?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:07:53):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
Okay. Would you recommend that this committee bring in individuals that were listed
Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
... listed as trafficking minors. They were listed as co-conspirators and then given plea deals.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:08:10):
I don't know enough about it, but I think you should do whatever you think will strengthen the ability of the United States not to have this happen again.
Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Okay. Is it possible, and in your opinion, that you and/or your wife were targeted as a means of an intelligence gathering operation-
Speaker 6 (01:08:31):
Object the form of the question.
Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
... by Jeffery Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell?
Speaker 6 (01:08:34):
Object to the form of the question. No objection to if he knows that they were targeted.
Speaker 8 (01:08:39):
I believe that's what she asked.
Speaker 6 (01:08:40):
No, she said is it possible.
Speaker 5 (01:08:41):
No, she said is it possible. So, she's asking him to speculate instead of asking him, does he know?
Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Do you know if you were targeted at any point?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:08:49):
I don't, but-
Jack Emmer (01:08:50):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:08:52):
I don't. I'd sort of be surprised, but I'm not. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
Okay. All right, Chairman Comer, I think that yields my time. I just want to say thank you very much, President Clinton, for coming in. And I do understand that this has been politicized, but again, I will state on record, and I will state this to the press, that I don't believe that Sarah Kellen's claims against you were valid.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:09:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Thank you.
Jack Emmer (01:09:25):
Mr. President, before we left off, I asked you to characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein. I asked you if you considered him to be a friend. You said you did not. Is that right?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:09:36):
I said we were friendly and we had a cordial relations, but I didn't know him well enough because we had almost no contact beyond what I described.
Jack Emmer (01:09:46):
At this time, I'd like to introduce what'll be marked as Majority Exhibit 13. And this is Bates marked House Oversight 000126. And while it's being passed out, this is a letter from a book of letters which was compiled-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:03):
Yeah, it's his 50th birthday.
Jack Emmer (01:10:04):
Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday.
Speaker 6 (01:10:06):
Wait for the questions.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:06):
Yeah.
Jack Emmer (01:10:10):
Mr. President, do you recognize this letter?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:12):
I do.
Jack Emmer (01:10:14):
And for the record, does this appear to be your handwriting and signature?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:16):
It is.
Jack Emmer (01:10:16):
And why did you write this letter?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:22):
Why did I? Because I was requested to contribute a nice letter for his birthday book.
Jack Emmer (01:10:30):
And who asked you to write the letter?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:34):
I have no... I don't remember.
Jack Emmer (01:10:36):
Would Ms. Maxwell have asked you?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:38):
I don't know. I think someone on my staff asked me.
Jack Emmer (01:10:42):
Now, there's a word that our committee has not been able to identify, and in our defense, The Wall Street Journal has not been able to identify.
Speaker 5 (01:10:53):
Imagine being on his staff.
Jack Emmer (01:10:54):
Can you please read the letter for the record?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:10:59):
Yes. " It's reassuring, isn't it, to have lasted so long, across all the years of learning and knowing, adventures and errors, and still to have your childlike curiosity, the drive to make a difference and the solace of friends." Not a bad letter.
Jack Emmer (01:11:22):
And because we haven't been able to identify that word until now, what did you-
Speaker 5 (01:11:27):
Which word was it that you could not-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:11:28):
Solace? You couldn't-
Jack Emmer (01:11:30):
No, no, errors.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:11:32):
Errors. What do I mean? Anybody who's lived 50 years and done anything has made mistakes as well as progress and done things.
Jack Emmer (01:11:43):
But for the record, you weren't referring to errors in judgment that Mr. Epstein had, related to his inappropriate activities involving young girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:11:52):
Absolutely not. I knew nothing about that.
Jack Emmer (01:11:59):
Did you ever see the birthday book compiled together?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:12:02):
I don't think so.
Jack Emmer (01:12:06):
And you mentioned previously you were friendly with Mr. Epstein. Did you typically send birthday wishes to individuals that you didn't consider to be friends though?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:12:21):
No, I send out literally hundreds and hundreds of birthday letters every year to people that have been my friends. But if somebody's doing a special... I've sent birthday letters of congratulations to people I've met two or three times for their 70th birthday, their 80th birthday, their 50th wedding anniversary.
Jack Emmer (01:12:45):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:12:45):
I do it. And I've found, I've told you, I thought Epstein was interesting and curious, so I wrote a letter that I thought reflected that.
Jack Emmer (01:12:56):
Can you elaborate on what made him "interesting and curious"?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:13:00):
No more than I've already said.
Jack Emmer (01:13:03):
At this time, I'd like to introduce what'll be marked as Majority Exhibit 14. And while it's being handed out, this is an article published by The New York Times on August 5th, 2025, entitled A Look Inside Epstein's Manhattan Lair. And once you receive the article, I will just direct your attention to page 10.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:13:25):
Where is that?
Speaker 5 (01:13:27):
No, they haven't brought it yet.
Speaker 6 (01:13:35):
It's coming round.
Speaker 5 (01:13:35):
Thank you very much, Peter.
Jack Emmer (01:13:44):
And we're specifically looking at a framed photo on a wooden table alongside multiple other framed photos. And we're focusing on the photo in the middle, which appears to have a golden frame.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:13:56):
Where is that?
Speaker 5 (01:14:06):
[inaudible 01:14:02]. Right there.
Speaker 10 (01:14:12):
Not the page with the poke.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:12):
Yeah, okay, I see it.
Speaker 7 (01:14:12):
Page 10. Is that what we're on?
Jack Emmer (01:14:16):
Page 10.
Speaker 7 (01:14:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jack Emmer (01:14:20):
Mr. President, do you recognize yourself in this photo?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:23):
I do.
Jack Emmer (01:14:24):
And it appears that the man on the right of the photo is Jeffrey Epstein. Is that correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:29):
I think so.
Jack Emmer (01:14:30):
Have you seen this photograph before today?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:34):
Only in this picture.
Jack Emmer (01:14:37):
And for the record, what is happening in this photo?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:41):
He's smiling at me. He looks like he's talking to me.
Jack Emmer (01:14:45):
This is one of the friendly interactions that you were describing earlier?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:49):
Yes.
Jack Emmer (01:14:50):
And can you describe the circumstances surrounding this photo?
Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
Are you asking if he recalls the-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:14:55):
I do not. I have no idea. I see Richard Branson in the back and other people.
Jack Emmer (01:15:04):
Okay, that's fine.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:15:08):
But I don't remember anything about it.
Jack Emmer (01:15:10):
And you appear to be comfortable with Mr. Epstein in this photo, would you disagree with that characterization?
Speaker 5 (01:15:16):
So, you are creating a characterization. He's already responded to your question about the picture.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:15:22):
I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable here. I'm not happy, but I'm comfortable. And my conscience is clear, that helps.
(01:15:36)
Is that... Let me see it. Okay.
Jack Emmer (01:16:13):
Mr. President, we have about five minutes remaining in the Majority's first hour, so I just want to ask you some questions related to the crimes committed by Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein sexually abuse or assault young women or girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:16:34):
No.
Jack Emmer (01:16:35):
Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive massages from young women or girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:16:40):
Not that I recall.
Jack Emmer (01:16:43):
Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:16:47):
No.
Jack Emmer (01:16:51):
Did you ever have any sexual contact with young women or girls in the presence of Epstein or Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:16:59):
No.
Jack Emmer (01:17:02):
Did you ever have sexual contact with any young woman or girl introduced to you by Epstein or Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:17:09):
No.
Jack Emmer (01:17:14):
Mr. President, with the benefit of hindsight, were there things you witnessed that could have suggested that Epstein was trafficking and sexually abusing young women and girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:17:34):
I do not believe so.
Jack Emmer (01:17:40):
We will go off the record.
Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
We can go back on the record. Mr. President, good morning.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:17:56):
Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
My name is... And I'll be doing most of the questioning for the Minority today. First, I want to thank you for your long and distinguished service to this country. I also want to thank you for your time today. We appreciate it. Before we get to questions, I'd like to take a few minutes and highlight some context that we think is relevant for today's conversation.
(01:18:23)
President Trump had a longstanding personal relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. That is not a secret, it is well documented, and I think the public and everyone in Congress understands that at this point. President Trump does not like talking about his longstanding personal relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, I think we've all seen that as well. On November 12th of last year, Oversight Committee Democrats released emails that were obtained from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein. In one email from 2011, Epstein said to Ghislaine Maxwell that President Trump was, quote, "That dog that hasn't barked," and that an unnamed victim, quote, "spent hours at my house with him." In another email from 2019, Epstein wrote that, quote "Of course, he," referring to President Trump, "knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop."
(01:19:16)
I'd like to enter, as Minority Exhibit A, Oversight Democrats' press release from November 12th, 2025, titled House Oversight Committee Releases Jeffrey Epstein Email Correspondence Raising Questions About White House Coverup of Epstein Files, and that includes both the emails that I just mentioned.
(01:19:38)
There was a fair amount of public attention on those emails, and two days later, President Trump asked the Department of Justice to investigate Epstein's relationships with yourself, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, and JPMorganChase. You are, of course, a former Democratic president of the United States. Notably, President Trump did not include any Republicans in his demands. Later that day, Attorney General Pam Bondi posted on social media that the US attorney for the Southern District of New York would comply with President Trump's directive and take the lead on the investigation.
(01:20:19)
I would like to enter, as Minority Exhibit B, Attorney General Bondi's post on X, which also includes President Trump's post on Truth Social. It is well understood that you had a personal relationship with Mr. Epstein, and we will talk about that today, but the events I just described color our perspective on the conversation. It appears as if you and other Democratic figures have been targeted by President Donald Trump in an attempt to distract the American people from his own longstanding relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And if that were true, it would not be the first time that President Trump has targeted his political enemies under the guise of law enforcement. This deposition is occurring in the context of unprecedented weaponization of the Department of Justice by Donald Trump. You may have a perspective on this of your own, so before we get started, I just want to give you the opportunity to share any thoughts you might have on that subject.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:21:28):
I think I'll let you ask me some questions and then maybe at the end I'll say something.
Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
That sounds fine. Thank you.
(01:21:35)
I'd like to start our conversation with a few foundational questions, so we can just set the record straight from the very beginning. With respect to your relationship with Mr. Epstein, did you ever, at any point during your interactions with Jeffrey Epstein, know about the sexual abuse that he was committing against minors and young women?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:21:54):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:21:56):
Have you ever engaged in sexual activity with a person introduced to you by Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:22:02):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
With respect to your relationship with Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell, did you ever, at any point during your interactions with Ghislaine Maxwell, know about the sexual abuse that she committed and facilitated against minors and young women?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:22:19):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
Have you ever engaged in sexual activity with a person introduced to you by Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:22:25):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Have you ever, at any point, visited Jeffrey Epstein's former estate on Little Saint James island in the US Virgin Islands?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:22:39):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
In February of last year, Attorney General Pam Bondi said on Fox News that you traveled on Mr. Epstein's plane, quote, "Because it supposedly had a bed in there where Jeffrey Epstein had young girls." I will ask you, did you fly on Mr. Epstein's plane because it had a bed where Jeffrey Epstein had young girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:23:00):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
Are there any other accusations that have been made against you with respect to Mr. Epstein that you'd like to address before we get started with some chronological questions?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:23:11):
Well, I think you pretty well covered it. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:23:17):
Thank you. I will ask a series of chronological questions. I'd like to try to create one clear, chronological record. Some of that might be repetitive from what you've already talked about. I will try to keep that to a minimum. All of these questions are from a long time ago. If you don't recall anything about what I'm asking, just let me know.
(01:23:38)
Starting with events before and during your presidency, the earliest known link that we're aware of between yourself and Mr. Epstein is that he made a pair of campaign contributions to you in 1992. There was a $1,000 contribution to your presidential election committee in January 1992, and another $1,000 in June to the Clinton/Gore General Election Compliance Fund. I imagine a lot of folks donate $1,000 to your campaign. Do you have any specific recollection or knowledge of those particular contributions?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:24:12):
No, I think this is the first time I've ever known that.
Speaker 4 (01:24:16):
Thank you. That takes us into your time as president. You were elected in November of 1992 and inaugurated in January of 1993. Mr. Epstein visited the White House a number of times while you were in office. Our understanding is that Mr. Epstein visited the White House 17 times between 1993 and 1995. I am not going to walk you through each of those visits, I'm just going to break them into categories. I think first, with respect to the only Epstein visit where it is publicly known that you either met Mr. Epstein or had some interaction was the White House Historical Association reception that you mentioned earlier. I know there's a photograph that you mentioned of yourself and Mr. Epstein meeting. Am I right that you have no specific recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell at that event?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:25:08):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (01:25:09):
Okay. With respect to the other 16 times that Mr. Epstein came and went, and that spanned 1993 to 1995, am I right that you have no specific recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein any of those times?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:25:25):
No, I don't think I did, and I don't know who he saw.
Speaker 4 (01:25:35):
It's been publicly reported that in March of 1995, there was a fundraiser in Palm Beach that you attended and that Mr. Epstein also attended. Other guests reportedly included Jimmy Buffett and investor Ron Perlman, who may have hosted the event at his home. Do you have any specific recollection of that event?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:26:00):
I remember going there in 1995. I have now seen the picture with Jeffrey Epstein and Jimmy Buffett. I recognize Jimmy Buffett, he was a longtime friend of mine. He performed for me twice in my second term as president, and we were friends for the rest of his life. But that's it. I don't know if he knew Mr. Epstein. I have no idea what that picture was. I didn't remember it.
Speaker 4 (01:26:37):
And so is it right that you have no specific recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:26:41):
No, I don't.
Speaker 4 (01:26:44):
At that fundraiser, just for the transcript.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:26:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
I'd like to introduce, as Minority Exhibit C, an article from The Daily Beast titled Jeffrey Epstein Visited Clinton White House Multiple Times in Early '90s. That article is dated July 24th, 2019.
Speaker 5 (01:27:04):
[inaudible 01:27:05].
Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
Once you receive it, I'll just direct you to page eight of the article that you're about to receive.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:27:10):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (01:27:10):
There's one for David.
Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
I'll give you a moment to look that note over and then I'll read the relevant portion into the record. Page eight.
Speaker 5 (01:27:42):
Eight. [inaudible 01:27:43].
William Jefferson Clinton (01:27:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:27:52):
[inaudible 01:27:52].
William Jefferson Clinton (01:27:58):
Okay.
(01:27:58)
Yep.
Speaker 4 (01:27:59):
So, you can see here that on April 27th, 1995, Lynn Forester, now Lynn Forester de Rothschild, sounds like served on a few committees or boards under your administration, wrote you a note. I'll just read part of that note out loud. "Dear Mr. President, it was a pleasure to see you recently at Senator Kennedy's house. There was too much to discuss and too little time. Using my 15 seconds of access to discuss Jeffrey Epstein and currency stabilization, I neglected to talk to you about a topic near and dear to my heart, namely affirmative action and the future." And that's the end of the relevant portion. I just wanted to ask whether you have any specific recollection of this note or of your conversation with Ms. Forester.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:28:45):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (01:28:55):
As far as you can remember, at this point in the middle of 1995, how would you have characterized your relationship with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:29:05):
It would be virtually non-existent.
Speaker 4 (01:29:13):
Do you recall any other interactions that occurred between yourself and Mr. Epstein during your time in office that have not already been mentioned today?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:29:23):
No. I think I told you everything I know.
Speaker 4 (01:29:34):
In October of 1999, toward the end of your time in office, we know that Epstein contributed $20,000 to the First Lady's joint fundraising account. Would you have any memory or knowledge of that particular contribution?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:29:48):
No. Was that for a White House related thing?
Speaker 5 (01:29:50):
No. Joint fundraising, he means the Senate.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:29:52):
Oh. No, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (01:29:59):
Okay. I am going to move to the years after your presidency. I will do this in chronological order as well. Your second term ended in January of 2001. In December of 2001, the New York Post reported that you and Ms. Maxwell had dinner at a New York City restaurant called Nello's. Do you have any specific recollection of that dinner?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:30:27):
No. Did... How did I know? I didn't. Nor do I remember the article.
Speaker 4 (01:30:37):
So, moving into 2002, you touched on this in the previous round, it sounds like there were two meetings. We don't have exact dates for them, but one of them was at your office in Harlem with Mr. Epstein, the other was at Mr. Epstein's home in New York City. Could you just repeat for us, what do you recall about each meeting, maybe starting with your office in Harlem?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:31:01):
I just remember that sometime in 2002, I think, that he paid a visit and he had become... I think it was either after or just before we started the flights, but he obviously was going to be a serious support of the foundation and I think he played a visit. I was flattered he wanted to see my office. I liked it.
Speaker 4 (01:31:32):
And then the meeting at his home in New York City, did I hear you say in the previous hour that Mr. Epstein was not actually there?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:31:40):
I said that when I wrote my book and talked about it, and when I've talked about it in the past, I've always... I realized I talked as if he were there, and of course he was there. And I started trying to picture the nice man on the staff that showed me around, and I couldn't... I don't... Now, I'm just being honest, I don't remember whether he was there or not. He could have been there, but I don't remember.
Speaker 4 (01:32:08):
As far as you can recall, would the purpose of that meeting also have been related to Mr. Epstein's support of your work through his plane, for example?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:32:17):
Yeah. The reason we went by, regardless of who was there, was that my staff had... We finished an event in New York City at a place, and Lord knows I may have done since then, I don't remember what it was for, but it was in New York City. And my staff aid said, "You know, we're only a couple of blocks from Epstein's house. It's a converted elementary school. He's very proud of it. And I think it'd be a nice thing to do, since it's early, you could just go by and take a look at it." So, that's what we did.
Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
Do you recall seeing anything or anyone in his home that was suspicious or reflected abnormally young women or girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:33:13):
No, the only people I saw there that night were staff, and him if he was there, I just don't remember.
Speaker 4 (01:33:20):
Do you recall seeing any images of young girls or women at Epstein's home?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:33:27):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:33:31):
So, moving to some of the travel on Mr. Epstein's plane, and we have specific dates for a lot of that, I'd like to move through that chronology of known trips, just one at a time, in order. To begin, flight logs indicate that on February 9th of 2002, and we'll give you the logs, you flew on Mr. Epstein's plane from Miami to Westchester County, New York, with Epstein, Maxwell, and some others, and you mentioned this flight in the previous round as well. I will introduce that flight log as Minority Exhibit D. And we'll give you a moment to receive that and take a look at it.
Speaker 5 (01:34:31):
Is this one page?
Speaker 4 (01:34:32):
It is one page exactly.
Speaker 5 (01:34:35):
Excuse me, please, Mr. President.
Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
And the flight in question, the leftmost column has a number nine on it, and you could see your name at the beginning in one of the middle columns.
Speaker 5 (01:34:45):
Excuse me?
Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:34:46):
At the top, it says 15. Are you talking about a date? Could you just-
Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
Yeah, the one on February 9th.
Speaker 5 (01:34:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:34:54):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (01:34:57):
Think this one.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:35:03):
Yeah, I do see it.
Speaker 4 (01:35:07):
Great. I'll just ask some specific questions. As an initial question, and we can see it here, you had a Secret Service detail that traveled with you after you left office, presumably still does. Is that correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:35:20):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 4 (01:35:21):
And did that detail accompany you on all trips that you took with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:35:27):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:35:31):
For this trip from Miami to Westchester, first, just do you recall the circumstances of the trip?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:35:36):
No, I was down there and I was coming home. I don't remember why I was down there.
Speaker 4 (01:35:45):
In terms of who was present on the flight, and we'll do this exercise with the other trips as well, are you able to make out from the initials here, maybe who is who? In other words, I can see your name and I can see four Secret Service, and then from there we have two males, one female, I think Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell, and then SK and AP. Do you have any recollection of who any of those folks may have been?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:36:15):
No. I just don't remember, I'm sorry, I don't... And the initials, they don't mean anything to me.
Speaker 5 (01:36:26):
This isn't a record from yours, this is their record.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:36:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:36:34):
In February in 2002, so the same month as this flight, it was reported that you and Ms. Maxwell were seated together at some type of charity gala in New York. I don't know what the charity was or where exactly the event occurred. Do you have any recollection of what I'm referring to?
Speaker 5 (01:36:51):
Could you state the date again, sir?
Speaker 4 (01:36:52):
In the same month, February 2002, and I don't have an exact date.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:36:56):
What was the report then?
Speaker 4 (01:36:58):
Simply that you and Ms. Maxwell were seated together at a charity gala in New York.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:37:03):
Wow. I have no recollection of it, but it could have happened.
Speaker 4 (01:37:11):
Heading into March of 2002, so the following month, we have a series of international travel, and the first of those trips indicates that on March 19th and 21st of 2002, you flew on Mr. Epstein's plane from JFK to London and back with Mr. Epstein, Ms. Maxwell, and some others. We will introduce those flight logs as Minority Exhibit E and go through the same exercise.
Speaker 5 (01:37:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 9 (01:37:52):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (01:37:52):
Thank you. [inaudible 01:37:57].
Speaker 4 (01:37:57):
And that's the 19th and the 21st.
Speaker 5 (01:37:57):
The 19th and the 21st?
Speaker 4 (01:38:07):
Yes. Down toward the bottom of the page.
Speaker 5 (01:38:12):
Oh, hold on, sir.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:38:12):
Was this a flight to London?
Speaker 4 (01:38:22):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:38:24):
Yeah, this says we had 10 Secret Service agents.
Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
So, I guess just to start with, do you recall the circumstances or the reason for this trip?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:38:36):
And this was when?
Speaker 4 (01:38:37):
This was March of 2002.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:38:40):
I don't, but bear in mind, there was a lot of stuff going on. The India in the late January, four days after I left office, had a horrible earthquake, and lots of people died. And I called the prime minister of India, Mr. Vajpayee, who belongs to the current leader's party, but was much less uber nationalist, and I asked him if I could help. And he said yes. He said, "I have the money and organization to fix the big cities, but not the smaller towns. And we need schools, we need hospitals, we need all the stuff rebuilt. Will you help?" So, that's the first thing I undertook to do, even before the AIDS thing, after I left the White House. So, I was there. So, by March of 2002, the next year, we were still working on that, and then the South Asian tsunami hit in December. So, I was doing all this stuff, and also trying to get set up at home too. So, that's why it sounds unusual for me to have 10 Secret Service agents, but I must have been going to several stops.
Speaker 4 (01:40:21):
And is it the same for you when you look at some of these names? I can make out the name Naomi Campbell. Do you have any recollection of Naomi Campbell being on this flight?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:40:31):
Naomi, when we went to Europe once, I think she went on one, but she was a friend of Doug's and that's what I remember. Let me see. Yep. And Jeffrey, Ghislaine. I don't know who the other people are.
Speaker 4 (01:40:55):
Looks like Doug Band is listed there and that-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:40:58):
Yeah, he's there, but SK, I don't know who that is.
Speaker 4 (01:41:00):
Okay, great. Thank you.
(01:41:07)
Moving to May of 2002, just two months after the one we just looked at, flight logs show a series of flights around Asia. Got five flights, including Hong Kong, China, Singapore, and Thailand. I'll introduce the flight logs for that trip, just take a look at it together, as Minority-
Speaker 5 (01:41:25):
We haven't gotten it.
Speaker 4 (01:41:26):
... Exhibit F. You still need it, right?
Speaker 5 (01:41:48):
We do. We do need it. Thank you. Oh, great. Thank you very much. And you said what?
Speaker 4 (01:41:59):
So, those are from the
Speaker 5 (01:41:59):
Let me just highlight that one, sir.
Speaker 4 (01:42:00):
... 22nd to the 25th there.
Speaker 11 (01:42:01):
Let me just highlight that for a second. 22nd. And you're saying each one until the 25th?
Speaker 4 (01:42:12):
Yeah. The first one lists the former President, and then four in a row after that lists same as above, so it's the same group of folks for about five flights there.
Speaker 11 (01:42:21):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (01:42:22):
So, same question: this trip to Asia, do you have a recollection of the circumstances of how the trip came about?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:42:30):
Yeah, that was 2002, right?
Speaker 4 (01:42:32):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:42:39):
When was the tsunami? Was it at the end of 2002 or the end of 2001?
Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
That, I'm not sure of.
Speaker 11 (01:42:52):
Just to the best of your memory, you have to share what you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:42:54):
Anyway, to the best of my memory, this was a trip to raise funds to organize our health network in Asia, which was basically designed to deal with AIDS, but also, I was heavily involved in the reconstruction of India after the earthquake there and was asked to do it by the prime minister and later by the UN. So I was involved with that.
Speaker 4 (01:43:34):
Do you have any recollection of who these individuals on the flight were? For example, there are a few female names. I think one is Janice, one is Jessica. When you look at the log, do you have any recollection of who's who?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:43:49):
No. She may have been a flight attendant, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
Do you have any recollection of the flights themselves?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:43:59):
Not the flight themselves.
Speaker 11 (01:44:06):
Of this particular flight?
Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
This group of flights.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:44:11):
I remember we met several stops and you've mentioned them, and we're going there, but that's all I know.
Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
To the best of your recollection, whether with respect to the flights or the trip itself, did you ever witness or become aware of sexual abuse of any kind?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:44:27):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:44:32):
We then have logs showing two flights in July of 2002, and I will introduce those as Minority Exhibit G. Give you a moment to receive those.
Speaker 11 (01:44:51):
What was the prior one?
Speaker 4 (01:44:53):
Prior one would've been F, and that was the May 2002 flight one.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:44:59):
Where's F?
Speaker 11 (01:45:00):
No, I put F on that, but I thought that was... Sorry, so you-
Speaker 4 (01:45:07):
No, no problem. It should be May 2002 I have as F as in Frank.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:45:10):
First section.
Speaker 11 (01:45:15):
Okay. I'm not sure what this one was. Okay, got it. I'm going to get the labels later.
Speaker 4 (01:45:20):
Okay.
Speaker 11 (01:45:21):
Thank you. Sorry about that.
Speaker 4 (01:45:21):
No, not at all.
Speaker 11 (01:45:21):
I apologize.
Speaker 4 (01:45:24):
This one will be G, and it's July of 2002, specifically on July 13th.
Speaker 11 (01:45:29):
Oh, sorry. Next one, Mr. President.
Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
I'll give you a moment to look at-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:45:40):
Does this say where we're going?
Speaker 4 (01:45:41):
Yeah, it's on the 13th and these flights are from Morocco to Portugal, and then Portugal to JFK. Our understanding, just from public reporting, is that this may have been part of a trip to Morocco to attend the King of Morocco's wedding.
Speaker 11 (01:45:59):
And you're asking him about the legs that he's on?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:01):
And this was-
Speaker 4 (01:46:02):
Correct, exactly.
Speaker 11 (01:46:05):
This is July of 2022.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:06):
Is that when his wedding was?
Speaker 4 (01:46:07):
Sorry?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:09):
Is that when he got married?
Speaker 4 (01:46:10):
It may have been. I think that's my question for you is whether you recall that this trip-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:15):
Well, I recall going to his wedding.
Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
Okay. Do you recall approximately when that wedding would have been?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:22):
No, but it was a long time ago. I don't know if this was it, but I did go to Morocco more than once.
Speaker 4 (01:46:31):
Do you recall attending the King of Morocco's wedding?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:35):
Absolutely, I did.
Speaker 4 (01:46:36):
Do you recall whether Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell also attended that wedding?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:46:45):
I don't. I remember, I think Chelsea went with me. I remember because my late mother-in-law loved Morocco and Chelsea was there with her once and she wanted to go, so we went, and it was really nice. I was very close to the King's father and I marched in his funeral when he died. So they had this wedding and we were invited and I very much wanted to go. Hillary was working and didn't go. Chelsea did, and I think Huma was with us, too.
Speaker 4 (01:47:37):
There's been some reporting that you may have invited Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell to the King's wedding. It sounds like, but please you tell me, do you have any specific recollections of that?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:47:49):
I don't. I don't remember.
Speaker 4 (01:47:54):
Do you have any specific recollection of these two flights which may or may not have been part of the King's wedding there from Morocco to Portugal and Portugal to JFK, Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell were on the flights as well as yourself?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:48:11):
When I was coming home.
Speaker 11 (01:48:14):
He's just asking you about these two legs and he's asking you, do you have any recollection of these two legs of the flight?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:48:23):
No. I remember the wedding very well and all the stuff that happened, but that's all. I don't remember where we're coming or we're going.
Speaker 4 (01:48:29):
Thank you. In September of that year, we have the trip that I think a lot of folks are aware of. This is a trip to Africa in September of 2002. The trip started at JFK, ended in London, stopped in Ghana, Nigeria, Rwanda, Mozambique and South Africa. Some high-profile figures were on board, including actor Kevin Spacey and comedian Chris Tucker, as well as Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell. I will introduce those flight logs as Minority Exhibit H. I'll give you a moment to receive them.
Speaker 11 (01:49:11):
Thank you. H. Thank you very much. This is H.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:49:18):
H.
Speaker 11 (01:49:18):
[inaudible 01:49:29].
Speaker 4 (01:49:32):
This is a two-sided document and the flights are at the bottom half of the first page and one flight at the top of the second page.
Speaker 11 (01:49:40):
Starting on the 21st?
Speaker 4 (01:49:42):
Yes.
Speaker 11 (01:49:43):
Sure.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:49:43):
Okay.
Speaker 11 (01:49:43):
Starting there.
Speaker 4 (01:49:47):
I'll just ask you generally, before we look at the log specifically, what is your recollection of how this trip to Africa came about?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:50:00):
Well, this is where most of our work was going to be done. What month is this?
Speaker 4 (01:50:06):
This is, I believe, September of 2002.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:50:15):
The countries we were going to represent places where we had operations. Like Mozambique, for example, had a big AIDS problem and we were trying to help and there was... That's what I know. In South Africa, we spent quite a bit of time because I wanted to go see Mandela. He was still in good shape then. We did things together. And then Charlayne Hunter-Gault, who was one of the Black women that integrated the University of Georgia and became then a very well-known international television commentator for PBS, and her husband, Ron, had moved down to South Africa, and they were longtime friends of mine. We had celebrated the 150th birthday of Arkansas together in Little Rock. We were longtime friends. So we went to visit them and she threw a big cookout for us. It was a funny time. Chris Tucker and Kevin Spacey imitated me.
Speaker 4 (01:51:47):
A lot of these names on the logs are hard to make out. Do you have any specific recollection of who was onboard those flights?
Speaker 11 (01:51:56):
He's not asking you to review and try and see if you can read their names. He's asking you what your recollection is.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:52:01):
No. It says Chauntae Davies was, and she worked for Jeffrey.
Speaker 4 (01:52:08):
I think it was discussed in the previous round, but that well-known photograph of yourself and Ms. Davies, what is your recollection of the extent of your interactions with Ms. Davies on that trip?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:52:22):
Where were we?
Speaker 4 (01:52:22):
In Africa.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:52:22):
No, no, where was the photograph?
Speaker 4 (01:52:23):
I think it was at the airport-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:52:24):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (01:52:25):
... on the way to-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:52:27):
That's it. We had a good relationship, but it was entirely [inaudible 01:52:34]. I never had any personal contact with her, if that's what you imply.
Speaker 4 (01:52:38):
Am I right that while on that trip, whether the trip or the flights, did you ever witness or become aware of sexual abuse of any kind?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:52:45):
I did not.
Speaker 4 (01:52:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (01:52:48):
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you. We have a series of questions from some of the members in the minority, and so I'll be calling them up as we go through. Thank you. I just want to also again thank you for being here and answering all the questions. We appreciate that and for your service.
(01:53:03)
Just two clarifying questions. One that was asked during the Republican hour, and I just want to just have you reiterate it for the record, either during or after your presidency, were you ever made aware of Jeffrey Epstein having any kind of relationship directly or indirectly with a foreign intelligence agency or service? I ask because we've received a lot of interest and communication about that topic, and so I want to give you a chance to answer that again if there's anything else.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:53:32):
No, I wasn't, and I understood why now when you showed me the passport, but I wasn't. I didn't know anything about that.
Speaker 12 (01:53:43):
Thank you. And then second, of course, this deposition also sets a pretty new precedent, I think, which is something that we've been discussed and folks across the country are discussing as well. We're thankful that you're here. We believe in the minority that President Trump should also answer this committee's questions. He's someone that is mentioned almost more than any other person beside Ghislaine Maxwell in the Epstein documents. So to get more information for this investigation, was wondering if you also agree that President Trump should answer questions of this committee.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:54:21):
That's for you to decide, but he did know him well, and I once had a brief discussion with him about it.
Speaker 12 (01:54:28):
Thank you. Thanks for that answer. With that, I'm going to go to Mr. Walkinshaw and we'll go down a series of questions.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:54:33):
I hate this, because I don't believe I should inject anything, but I do not want to leave the impression, but since there was no follow-up question, the President, never, and this is 20 something years ago, never said anything to me to make me think he was involved in anything unprofitable with regard to Epstein, either. He just didn't. He just said, "We were friends and then we had a falling out over a land deal, property deal." That's all.
Speaker 12 (01:55:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:55:16):
Could I ask very briefly, Mr. President-
William Jefferson Clinton (01:55:18):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (01:55:18):
... if you recall, what were the circumstances of that conversation, or at least let's start with when did the conversation occur?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:55:26):
It was on hi golf course. There were a couple of years there when Joe Torre, who had been the manager of the Yankees and was a friend, had a tournament, a charitable golf tournament, called appropriately for this investigation, the Safe At Home Foundation. It was designed to combat domestic violence, of which Joe Torre had been a victim as a child. I wanted to support it. Donald Trump gave him the golf course in New York to have a tournament on and I played in it a couple times. The day I was there, Donald Trump would come out and play a few holes with us. He somehow knew I had flown on Jeffrey Epstein's aircraft and he said, "We had some great times together over the years, but we fell out all because of a real estate deal." He said, "I'm sorry it happened." That's all.
Speaker 4 (01:56:47):
Do you recall whether President Trump was the first one to affirmatively bring up the subject of Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:56:55):
No, but I'd be shocked if I did. I just don't do that.
Speaker 4 (01:56:59):
Do you recall whether President Trump elaborated at all on the great times that he had with Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:57:07):
No. No, and at the time, I didn't put any sexual spin on it.
Speaker 4 (01:57:18):
And as far as you recall, President Trump characterized the nature of the ending of their friendship as being solely due to the real estate bidding?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:57:26):
That's what he said.
Speaker 4 (01:57:29):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (01:57:30):
But I didn't think much about it at the time, and it was two minutes and then we were gone.
Speaker 4 (01:57:37):
As far as you recall, have you had any other conversations with President Trump related to Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:57:45):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:57:45):
And your best recollection, if you have one, of the year that this conversation occurred?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:57:52):
Be 2002 or 2003.
Speaker 4 (01:57:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (01:57:58):
Thank you, Mr. President. Good afternoon. I just want to focus again on Ghislaine Maxwell. First, I'll ask you just to reiterate, did you ever at any point during your interactions with Ms. Maxwell know about the sexual abuse she committed and facilitated against minors and women?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:58:17):
No.
Speaker 13 (01:58:18):
When did you learn that she had engaged in crimes against girls and young women?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:58:22):
When the first evidence came out. When was it, in 2019?
Speaker 13 (01:58:28):
Okay. Have you ever engaged in sexual activity with a person introduced to you by Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:58:33):
No.
Speaker 13 (01:58:34):
You're aware that she was convicted of crimes as we discussed, and you're aware that she's currently incarcerated as a result of her federal conviction?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:58:43):
Yes.
Speaker 13 (01:58:45):
Maxwell received a 20-year sentence for her crimes. Are you aware that she has repeatedly called on President Trump to grant her clemency and that she has said that you and President Trump are not guilty of any wrongdoing with respect to Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:59:01):
I know that now, yes.
Speaker 13 (01:59:03):
In your opinion, does she deserve or should she be granted clemency by President Trump?
William Jefferson Clinton (01:59:08):
I don't think I should comment on that. I don't know anything about President Trump other than what I've already told you. I thought that was a mistake to pardon everybody in the January 6th case. I think that this thing was really hard for me when it came out because we had been friendly with Ghislaine. I was sad, but it was terrible what she did, and she has to be punished. Somebody besides me should make a decision on what they did, so she got 20 years, and there it is.
Speaker 13 (02:00:02):
Okay. Mr. President, on July 24th, 2025, the Deputy Attorney General and President Trump's former personal attorney, Todd Blanche, conducted a closed-door interview of Ms. Maxwell at her then low-security prison on August 1st, 2025. Just a few days after that interview, she was transferred to a lower-security prison where she's afforded a list of amenities, personalized meals, playtime with puppies, a transfer that I think most Americans agree is inconsistent with a very serious crime she was convicted of. Do you have any opinion on her transfer to that lower-security prison and the amenities she's been granted? Did it seem strange to you when you learned of that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:00:48):
I think you're in a better position to find out what happened than I am.
Speaker 13 (02:00:52):
Okay. When you were president of the United States, was it common for your deputy attorney general to directly conduct interviews of witnesses and/or federal inmates?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:01:10):
Was it? You were there.
Speaker 11 (02:01:10):
You have to testify what you know, what you recall. Do you recall if it was-
Speaker 14 (02:01:11):
Yes, he's asking, did you ever send a deputy attorney general to-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:01:14):
To the best of my knowledge, I did not do that.
Speaker 13 (02:01:18):
All right. Thank you, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:01:18):
May I ask a question? Representative Foster, are you still the youngest person in Congress?
Representative Foster (02:01:36):
Yes, I am, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:01:38):
Lucky you.
Representative Foster (02:01:39):
Hopefully that changes. If you're the youngest for too long, it's not good.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:01:43):
Come time, believe me, I was for most of my life the youngest person doing whatever I was doing, and one day I woke up, I was the oldest man in every room, and I couldn't tell you for the life of me how I got from one place to the other. Time will take care of it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Representative Foster (02:01:59):
Thank you, thank you. It's a blessing to be the oldest person in the room as well. Mr. President, I just wanted to circle back to the conversation you had with Jeffrey Epstein on the golf, or with, sorry, Donald Trump on the golf course in New York. President Trump has said publicly multiple times that his falling-out with Jeffrey Epstein was the result of him hiring away workers from Mar-a-Lago and his crimes. He said that's why he kicked him out of Mar-a-Lago. I have two questions about this. Did President Trump specifically characterize the result of this land dispute they had as a falling-out specifically, to the best of your-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:02:43):
Yeah. He said they both wanted the same piece of land. He didn't say what it was, and that's all I remember.
Representative Foster (02:02:50):
And he said it was a falling-out as a result of that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:02:53):
Yeah. Said it strained their relationship.
Representative Foster (02:02:55):
Do you know when this conversation happened?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:02:59):
When the conversation I had with him happened?
Representative Foster (02:03:00):
Mm-hmm.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:03:01):
Well, it had to be in 2002 or 2003, I think.
Representative Foster (02:03:05):
2002, 2003. All right, thank you. During any of your interactions with Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell, did either of them ever mention or discuss their relationships or connections with Howard Lutnick?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:03:19):
No.
Representative Foster (02:03:20):
What about their relationship or connection with Alex Acosta?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:03:25):
No.
Representative Foster (02:03:26):
Prior to Jeffrey Epstein's arrest in 2019, did anyone ever speak with you about Epstein's relationship with Howard Lutnick?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:03:36):
No.
Representative Foster (02:03:36):
And what about Alex Acosta?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:03:38):
No.
Representative Foster (02:03:38):
Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:03:49):
Good morning, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:03:50):
Good morning.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:03:51):
I'm Melanie Stansbury. I represent New Mexico's First Congressional District, and it's an honor to have you and your counsel here. This is a very important investigation and we obviously have a lot of questions. For me personally, this case is all about justice for the victims, and I really appreciated in your opening statements your statement about nobody being above the law, including a president, and I think it's important that we are setting the precedent for Congress establishing oversight and subpoena power over a president, and I believe Donald Trump should and will ultimately be in front of this body. I also appreciate what you said about women and girls who were abused by Jeffrey Epstein deserving justice and healing, and that's where I'd like to focus my questions. In particular, I want to focus on three survivors who have shared stories that involve you.
(02:04:46)
I want to begin with Maria Farmer. Do you know who Maria Farmer is? Maria Farmer was employed by Jeffrey Epstein and abused by him for a number of years, and she first reported her abuse to the New York PD and FBI in 1996. She states that she has personal knowledge that you visited Jeffrey Epstein's house three to four times while you were the sitting president between 1995 and 1996. She says she knows this based on photographs that Ghislaine Maxwell showed to her as well as discussions with the staff. So let me ask you, Mr. President, did you visit Jeffrey Epstein's house while you were president?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:05:28):
I do not remember doing that. I do not believe I did.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:05:33):
How do you explain this discrepancy?
Speaker 14 (02:05:36):
Objection. Calls for him to speculate.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:05:39):
I can't speculate, but all I can tell you is I don't remember being there.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:05:45):
Okay. Moving on to Virginia Roberts Giuffre, are you familiar with her?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:05:50):
Mm-hmm.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:05:52):
As has already been established, she has stated in numerous sworn statements, including a sworn deposition in the deposition in the Maxwell trial, that she saw you on the island with Jeffrey Epstein. In fact, this morning, her family shared her diary with me, and in it is a quote wherein she writes, quote, "Bill Clinton met two times island with two girls, CTGM and JE." What is your reaction to that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:06:26):
It's not true.
Speaker 11 (02:06:29):
Do you have any dates associated with that? Were there dates on the diary?
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:06:32):
I don't have that information, but we'll be happy to share it with you.
Speaker 11 (02:06:36):
It would be terrific because I think there are also records that would reflect where else he would've been, so thanks.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:06:43):
Did she say that in her book?
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:06:45):
This is from her personal diary that her family shared with us.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:06:48):
Yes, but the book came out more recently. Did she say that in the book?
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:06:54):
I'm just reading you the entry from her diary that her family shared with me.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:07:00):
I think she ultimately reached a different conclusion, although I had no contact with her.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:07:04):
Okay, well, I just want to make sure that it's on the record that that is Virginia Giuffre's statement. Did you ever fly in a helicopter with Maxine, with...
Speaker 11 (02:07:15):
Ghislaine.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:07:17):
... Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:07:20):
Ever anywhere? I have no idea.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:07:25):
Okay. Well, at least one of the survivors claims that you flew in a helicopter with Ghislaine Maxwell to the island.
Speaker 11 (02:07:31):
Did you ever?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:07:31):
Then I did not do that. I've never been to that island.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:07:36):
Okay. The third person I want to talk about briefly is Chauntae Davies. I know we've already mentioned her here today. I know you've already mentioned that she was listed as a flight attendant on the trip to South Africa in 2002 that you took with Jeffrey Epstein. Are you aware that Chauntae Davies is a survivor who claims she was abused for three years, including during that time period?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:08:07):
I am now.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:08:08):
Are you aware that Jeffrey Epstein recruited his victims through calling them masseuses?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:08:17):
No.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:08:18):
You're not aware that Jeffrey-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:08:21):
But it doesn't surprise me. But I didn't know that, no.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:08:25):
Knowing that Jeffrey Epstein recruited hundreds of minors as masseuses to massage him and knowing that this victim who was a survivor of three years of his sexual abuse as a masseuse was on the plane, does that make you think about the massage you received from her differently?
Speaker 11 (02:08:43):
Can I just interrupt? You're saying "knowing." You know that. He was saying that he was unaware that that's how Mr. Epstein was recruiting his individuals.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:08:51):
I'm asking if today, hearing this-
Speaker 11 (02:08:54):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:08:55):
Have you seen the picture?
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:08:56):
I have a copy of it right here. Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:08:58):
Well, I'm sitting up in the...
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:09:01):
I'm just asking if now that you know that Jeffrey Epstein recruited girls as masseuses, does that reframe that photograph and knowing that there were girls on the plane that were being abused?
Speaker 14 (02:09:16):
Objection. It states facts not in the record. You can ask this witness what he thinks or remembers about anything that happened, but I don't think it's right to ask him to speculate.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:09:26):
She wants to know if I feel bad about it, yes.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:09:30):
I'm not... I think what-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:09:32):
Don't you?
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:09:32):
What I'm trying to get at is that there is a culture that surrounded Jeffrey Epstein in which rich and powerful people saw young women that were survivors who were being abused and didn't say anything and didn't do anything.
Speaker 11 (02:09:47):
So was your question-
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:09:48):
Hold on. Part of what I'm trying to do is to ask you, we know there was a survivor that was on the plane. You've stated that you didn't know she was a survivor. I understand that, but I am asking, now that you are aware that Epstein was recruiting survivors as masseuses, does this make you rethink what you saw as you were traveling and interacting with him?
Speaker 11 (02:10:13):
Okay, so he has already spoken to-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:10:14):
No, but I-
Speaker 11 (02:10:14):
Wait a minute, wait a minute. I want to make sure that you are clearly answering her question. He's already stated what he saw and what he knew, and so what you're now asking him is, given what you've now shared with him, does he think any differently about what he saw-
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:10:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (02:10:29):
... and what he knew? Thank you.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:10:30):
Yes. Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:10:31):
I wish Chauntae had told me. I liked her. But I didn't think it was anything unusual and I can't tell you how many airplanes I've been on where rich people ask me to go and they had someone offering massage. All these boats that you go on and all that, they all do that. Usually, I don't do that. I'm not into this.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:10:55):
Well, that certainly raises some other questions about people offering free massages and boats, et cetera, but I do want to enter a couple of exhibits into the record, and I know counsel is prepared to pass them out. While that is occurring, we're going to introduce this exhibit. What is it? Exhibit I. It'll be Minority Exhibit I, which is a FBI PowerPoint that was included in the files that were released as part of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. I would like to introduce this exhibit, which is Exhibit J, which is a internal correspondence emails between the FBI. Though I'm short on time, what I'll describe in both these exhibits is that your name appears in FBI tip sheets as having attended parties in Jeffrey Epstein's presence in which sexual activities were occurring. Did you ever attend a party of any kind or an event with Jeffrey Epstein in which sexual activities were occurring?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:12:04):
No.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:12:05):
Okay. And then finally, there will be many millions of people that watch this deposition. What would you like to say to the survivors directly?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:12:16):
That I hope this will produce a sense of finality, and I don't think that'll happen until the government starts holding on to all the records. I think that the record should be released. And then I think that we need to come up with strategies to help people who can't get over this get better. And the most important thing we do, I think, besides treat the victims, is increase the guardrails that will set off alarm systems and stop other people from doing the same thing Epstein did.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:12:55):
Thank you very much, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:12:57):
Thank you.
Representative Melanie Stansbury (02:12:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:12:59):
We had an additional member join us in the interim. Could that member just identify themselves?
Representative Nick Longworthy (02:13:05):
Absolutely. Hello, Mr. President. My name's Nick Langworthy. I'm representing New York's 23rd Congressional District, Buffalo suburbs at rural Southern Tier. Thank you for being here today.
Speaker 11 (02:13:16):
Could we just for the record do time check?
Speaker 4 (02:13:18):
We've got about five minutes left in this round, that's right.
Speaker 11 (02:13:24):
Thank you so much.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:13:24):
I think it's fine.
Speaker 4 (02:13:24):
Great.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:13:24):
Congressman, how are you?
Speaker 15 (02:13:24):
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you for being here and for your time today. Thank you for your service. As you know, in the files that were released, there were several photos included you, and we have an exhibit here that's just one of the photos, Exhibit K, Minority Exhibit K.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:13:42):
Yep.
Speaker 15 (02:13:43):
We'll have that passed around. What we're trying to get at is some context for the public on whether you remember this photo and any details you may be able to provide us about it. Do you recall the details of this photo or recall the photo being taken?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:14:01):
No, I don't think I ever knew the photo was taken.
Speaker 15 (02:14:05):
Okay. For those who can't see it, it's a photo of you in a hot tub. There's a person next to you here. Do you remember where it was taken, as with whom?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:14:14):
I do.
Speaker 15 (02:14:14):
Where was it taken?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:14:18):
I'm almost sure that this taken, I think there's an adjacent photograph, which you probably have, that if people thought they would feel that someone was trying to con them showing this picture. But anyway, this picture was taken in Brunei. We flew one night on the trip to Asia, the last very long leg.
Speaker 15 (02:14:50):
You said "we." Who is that including?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:14:52):
Well, my tail team that was working-
Speaker 15 (02:14:54):
Okay. Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:14:55):
... on the AIDS issue. Mr. Epstein was there, and Ms. Maxwell. But anyway, we got to the end of... The end of the flight was Brunei. It's a tiny place, but a very wealthy one. The Sultan of Brunei was a man that I had gotten to know well in my eight years as president. His first involvement with international matters was basically to join the Asian-Pacific Economic Leaders Conference, which I started and which he attended. He was very proud of that, and his time came to host it. You do these things in a rotation. It came either at the very end of my term or maybe the next year. Anyway, when he knew I was coming and he said he wanted to help me with my AIDS initiative and he invited me to stay there. He said, "
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:00):
... "but I want you to stay at this hotel, and I hope you'll use your pool." So I did. And then I got out, and went to bed exhausted.
Speaker 16 (02:16:13):
Just for the record, there's another picture that also shows this as part of the larger pool area. Do you all have that so that he can refresh his recollection with respect to that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:21):
We should have it. It's quite enlightening. If you watch this-
Speaker 17 (02:16:26):
[inaudible 02:16:27].
Speaker 18 (02:16:27):
Yes, it's noted. Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:28):
... it'll give you a different feel.
Speaker 18 (02:16:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 16 (02:16:31):
Okay.
Speaker 18 (02:16:31):
We don't have it with us right now.
Speaker 16 (02:16:33):
Okay.
Speaker 18 (02:16:33):
We-
Speaker 16 (02:16:33):
Thanks. I just wanted to make sure he knew the content.
Speaker 18 (02:16:36):
Were there other people in that pool or hot tub with you as well?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:39):
I don't think there was anybody in the hot tub. I then forgotten that there was anybody in the hot tub, but it was big, but it was about...
Speaker 18 (02:16:48):
Well, there's a-
Speaker 16 (02:16:49):
He's asking you in the pool area.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:50):
[inaudible 02:16:51].
Speaker 18 (02:16:50):
It appears, in this photo, there's a girl over here. There's someone-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:54):
Yeah, I don't know who that is.
Speaker 16 (02:16:55):
But he's also asking in the pool area, were there other individuals?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:16:56):
Yes. I don't know who that is.
Speaker 18 (02:16:56):
Okay. So you don't know?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:17:01):
No. And then there were other people in the pool.
Speaker 18 (02:17:06):
Okay. So do you remember, were they under 18, would you know?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:17:07):
No.
Speaker 18 (02:17:07):
No.
Speaker 16 (02:17:09):
Were they part of your traveling party, he's asking you?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:17:15):
Yes, they were. I think everybody there was part of our party. It was late at night, or late-ish, and I also believe that there was a Secret Service agent there at the other end of the pool.
Speaker 18 (02:17:27):
Okay. And was this in public?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:17:31):
No, it was a hotel room, and the [inaudible 02:17:35] wanted us to stay there, and the hole, the water, this big pool, was on the same floor, that there were several suites. So we went out, I swam around, I sat in the hot tub for five minutes, or whatever it was, and I got up and went to bed.
Speaker 18 (02:17:54):
And then I have to ask this, did you engage in any sexual activity with this person?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:17:56):
No.
Speaker 18 (02:17:57):
Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Speaker 19 (02:17:59):
And that ends this round, and we can go off the record.
Jack Emmer (02:18:11):
All right. We'll go back on the record.
Speaker 16 (02:18:20):
Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 20 (02:18:21):
Yep.
Speaker 21 (02:18:27):
You're ready to go?
Speaker 20 (02:18:27):
Yep. We'll start with [inaudible 02:18:28].
Speaker 21 (02:18:28):
Wonderful. Hello, Mr. President. How are you?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:18:30):
Fine.
Speaker 21 (02:18:30):
Good. Thank you so much for being here with us.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:18:32):
Excuse me for being hoarse.
Speaker 21 (02:18:33):
Oh, you're fine, Mr. President. Mr. President, I want to make my questions as quick and as painless as possible so we can move on with the day, and hopefully not keep you here for too long. First question I have for you, Mr. President, have you ever lied in a deposition?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:18:49):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:18:50):
Have you ever lied while under oath?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:18:54):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:18:54):
Thank you. Were you personally aware that Jeffrey Epstein visited the White House 17 times during your presidency?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:05):
At the time it happened?
Speaker 21 (02:19:07):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:08):
No. At the time it happened, I was not.
Speaker 21 (02:19:12):
So Jeffrey Epstein never asked to meet with you personally in the White House while you were president during those 17 visits?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:21):
Not to my knowledge.
Speaker 21 (02:19:21):
Would you know who he was meeting with?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:22):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:19:25):
Okay-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:25):
I didn't know he was coming.
Speaker 21 (02:19:28):
Is that standard protocol for the president to not know of someone who is visiting the White House 17 times-
Speaker 16 (02:19:37):
So wait, excuse me, just to be clear-
Speaker 21 (02:19:39):
... while you were president?
Speaker 16 (02:19:40):
... the White House Office, which has 1,600 employees?
Speaker 21 (02:19:42):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 16 (02:19:42):
You're speaking of the White House Office, yeah?
Speaker 21 (02:19:44):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (02:19:45):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:45):
No. I think that most presidents don't have a clue who's coming in every day, unless it's somebody of personal interest to the president.
Speaker 21 (02:19:54):
Yes. And you did have a familiar relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:19:59):
No. I wasn't aware I'd ever met him when I was president.
Speaker 21 (02:20:05):
While you were president. We are trying to establish if Jeffrey Epstein was a foreign or potentially even a domestic asset of some kind. Do you have any reason to believe that he was trying to seek access to classified materials, intelligence reports, or sensitive government information?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:20:27):
No. I knew nothing about this story until it came up. I was glad to see that picture of the-
Speaker 21 (02:20:30):
Yes. And Mr. President-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:20:31):
... family passport.
Speaker 21 (02:20:32):
Sorry to interrupt you. Mr. President, since knowing Jeffrey Epstein, and knowing that he had visited the White House, were there any conversations from your associates, any White House staff, or anyone familiar with the meetings that said he was seeking detailed information about government relationships?
Speaker 16 (02:20:50):
[inaudible 02:20:51] with respect to-
Speaker 17 (02:20:51):
Does that question relate to back in the day or now? What's the time of the question?
Speaker 21 (02:20:55):
I'm asking since you have been aware, any time since after you are aware that Jeffrey Epstein visited the White House 17 times, has there been any conversations with anyone that you are aware of that Jeffrey Epstein was seeking sensitive government information?
Speaker 16 (02:21:12):
She's asking to the best of your recollection.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:21:14):
To the best of my knowledge, no.
Speaker 21 (02:21:15):
Yes, sir. Thank you. And moving on, at any time while you were traveling on any aircraft, owned, leased, or otherwise affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein, did you engage in sexual relations or sexual activities with anyone other than your wife?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:21:36):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:21:38):
During any such flight, did you witness, or have knowledge of any other individual engaging in sexual activities with any female passengers?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:21:47):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:21:48):
In 2002, you participated in a 10-day multi-country trip to Africa while traveling on a Boeing 727 owned by Mr. Jeffrey Epstein. This trip was organized by Ghislaine Maxwell. Do you recall this trip, Mr. President?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:22:05):
I recall the trip, but I don't know that it was organized by Ghislaine Maxwell.
Speaker 21 (02:22:09):
Yes, sir.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:22:10):
I believe we were going places that I needed to go for my work in Africa.
Speaker 21 (02:22:16):
Yes, sir. Internal FBI records described the aircraft as having a section with couches adjacent to, which a sliding glass door leading to another compartment, there was a bed. Are you familiar with the layout of this aircraft that you traveled on?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:22:34):
I'm familiar with the fact that there was a bench to turn into a bed at the end of the passenger seats.
Speaker 21 (02:22:42):
And no other bed you are familiar with? Did you ever go into any part of the aircraft with a bed that you perhaps lied on or utilized?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:22:55):
I'm familiar with the bench.
Speaker 21 (02:22:58):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:22:59):
It turned into the bed.
Speaker 21 (02:23:00):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:23:01):
I do not believe I ever went into the back section.
Speaker 21 (02:23:04):
And at any time while traveling on such aircraft, do you remember utilizing either the bench that laid... I'll keep it as one option for now. Do you remember utilizing the bench as a bed? Was it laid out as a bed?
Speaker 16 (02:23:25):
Answer if you remember.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:23:26):
I don't remember, but that doesn't mean I didn't. I'm familiar with the note.
Speaker 21 (02:23:31):
Yes, sir. FBI internal records relay testimony from Dr. Greg Bledsoe, who participated on the 2002 Africa trip. Did Dr. Bledsoe describe multiple millionaires? Dr. Bledsoe does describe multiple millionaires and billionaires on the plane. Do you remember any of the names of those individuals, potentially even the actor, Kevin Spacey?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:23:56):
Yeah, Kevin was on the plane.
Speaker 21 (02:24:02):
He also describes multiple young women were present on the flights, and that Maxwell appeared to be in a position over the girls on the plane, and was directing the girls. Can you describe the purpose of these women participating in this multi-country trip?
Speaker 17 (02:24:21):
Objection to form of the question.
Speaker 21 (02:24:21):
Sure.
Speaker 17 (02:24:21):
No. Objection to you asking the president what he saw, observed, heard, but he can't possibly speak to what Maxwell... Was in her mind.
Speaker 21 (02:24:29):
Did you witness, Mr. President, Ms. Maxwell, appearing to be in the position over other girls on the plane, and possibly directing the girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:24:42):
Well, I thought that she was Epstein's top aid, and that she was basically in charge of what happened.
Speaker 21 (02:24:51):
What did happen, Mr. President?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:24:53):
I don't know. I've already told you this, I'll tell it again, I never saw anybody do anything wrong. I thought they were flight attendants.
Speaker 21 (02:25:03):
Do flight attendants typically wear tank tops and jeans?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:25:11):
They don't all wear uniforms on private planes.
Speaker 21 (02:25:14):
Yes, sir. Most are dressed probably pretty business class. But moving on-
Speaker 16 (02:25:20):
So his testimony was, with respect to private aircrafts, people are not wearing uniforms.
Speaker 21 (02:25:27):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:25:29):
Go ahead.
Speaker 21 (02:25:30):
Dr. Bledsoe described [inaudible 02:25:32] one of the girls serving as a masseuse. At any point, did you or other male passengers receive a massage from this young woman, or any other young women who are described as a masseuse?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:25:49):
Well, I've seen one picture that shows that in an airport waiting area, one of the was massaging my neck. That's all I've seen.
Speaker 21 (02:26:05):
Have you received more than one massage from these trips with Mr. Epstein and the young girls that were present?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:26:16):
I don't recall them, but the problem I remember from that trip was that my neck had spasmed, and I was in... And so they offered to help and I let them help. The one who-
Speaker 16 (02:26:29):
She asked whether or not you recalled any other massage-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:26:31):
No, I do not.
Speaker 21 (02:26:33):
Thank you. And Mr. President, moving on to my next question. Submitted to the record, we have a painting that seems to be of you, Mr. President, found in one of Jeffrey Epstein's residences wearing a... I would categorize it as a famous blue dress worn by the White House intern, Monica Lewinsky. And I have this image here. This image is being passed around. If we need to go off the record while we do that, we can.
Speaker 16 (02:27:08):
I can take the picture.
Speaker 21 (02:27:11):
Okay.
Speaker 16 (02:27:11):
Do you have a question?
Speaker 21 (02:27:12):
I do.
Jack Emmer (02:27:13):
It will be marked as Majority Exhibit 15. Proceed.
Speaker 21 (02:27:16):
Thank you. So Mr. President, we are looking at an image of a portrait that looks to be you, Mr. President, in this blue dress. Can you describe this painting, and...
Speaker 16 (02:27:34):
He doesn't need to describe the painting, you just gave him a picture. What's your question?
Speaker 21 (02:27:37):
My question is, are you familiar with this painting? Have you ever seen it in-person?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:27:40):
I've never seen it in person.
Speaker 21 (02:27:42):
Do you know why someone would paint this?
Speaker 16 (02:27:45):
Are you asking him to speculate?
Speaker 17 (02:27:47):
Objection. This calls for speculation. You can ask the artist.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:27:49):
And if I had known Jeffrey Epstein had this painting, it would've saved me this whole day.
Speaker 21 (02:27:56):
Did you ever introduce Epstein to Monica Lewinsky or any other young female White House staffers?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:28:02):
I did not.
Speaker 21 (02:28:04):
Did Epstein ever request introductions to young female intern staffers of you? Did he request you to introduce them?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:28:13):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:28:13):
Regarding this exhibit, Exhibit 15, this portrait, to the right of this image, there appears to be a plain letterhead document that is framed in a gold frame. Are you familiar with-
Speaker 16 (02:28:27):
That he's testified that he's not seen this picture?
Speaker 21 (02:28:30):
The painting we asked, yes. And now I'm asking about the image next to it. So this is-
Speaker 16 (02:28:35):
Are you asking whether or not he's familiar with what's in this small frame?
Speaker 21 (02:28:38):
The part that you have covered up.
Speaker 16 (02:28:40):
This part?
Speaker 21 (02:28:40):
I'm asking if he's familiar with this letterhead letter that was-
Speaker 16 (02:28:45):
Is there another letterhead that we can see?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:28:46):
Is this part of the painting?
Speaker 21 (02:28:48):
No, sir. This is next to the painting, and it's framed on the wall in the home of Jeffrey Epstein. I guess a better way to ask, other than the birthday note that was passed around here today for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday, Mr. President, did you ever hand write Jeffrey Epstein any other notes?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:29:09):
Well, I wouldn't remember, except that I've seen a picture recently of another note where I thank him for getting me away from the crowd on the airplane for a while so I could take a note nap.
Speaker 21 (02:29:23):
Yes. Okay. Mr. President, I just have two more questions for you, and then I will let you go. And again, I'm so grateful for your time here today. We also have another exhibit from the committee, and it's page 49, I believe, and the... How do you want to classify this one?
Speaker 16 (02:29:42):
They'll give it to us.
Jack Emmer (02:29:43):
It will be marked as Majority Exhibit 16.
Speaker 21 (02:29:47):
In this, this is a portion of Virginia Giuffre and her testimony. And in it, she is referencing you, Mr. President, and says " He," Mr. Clinton, "told me long ago that everyone owes him favors. They are all in each other's pockets." She's asked... I'm sorry, maybe that wasn't you that... It was referencing Clinton. I'll start over. "He told me long ago that everyone owes him favors." I believe that's referring to Mr. Epstein. "They're all in each other's pockets."
Speaker 16 (02:30:20):
I'm sorry. So what line are you starting at?
Speaker 21 (02:30:21):
Yes, ma'am. I'm starting at the first line. And I do believe I incorrectly said that she was referencing Mr. Clinton. So to correct that-
Speaker 16 (02:30:27):
She's not-
Speaker 21 (02:30:27):
Correct.
Speaker 16 (02:30:27):
She's not referencing President Clinton.
Speaker 21 (02:30:31):
She's not referencing President Clinton.
Speaker 16 (02:30:33):
She's referencing instead, who?
Speaker 21 (02:30:35):
I believe this is Jeffrey Epstein that she is referencing here.
Speaker 16 (02:30:37):
Thank you, Ms. [inaudible 02:30:39].
Speaker 21 (02:30:38):
Thank you. And then she's asked, "Would you say you asked him why Bill Clinton here was here?" And [inaudible 02:30:48] responds, "Where he was here, on the island? And she goes on to say...
Speaker 16 (02:30:58):
Excuse me, can you clarify who JS is?
Speaker 21 (02:31:01):
Can we look and see who JS is?
Speaker 16 (02:31:02):
It says V and then it says JS. So is this a-
Speaker 21 (02:31:05):
Yes. Yes. I will get you that name.
Speaker 16 (02:31:07):
But this is a conversation-
Speaker 21 (02:31:07):
[inaudible 02:31:09].
Speaker 16 (02:31:08):
... between two people or is this a transcript of a deposition?
Speaker 21 (02:31:13):
Yes. This is a transcript of a deposition. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 16 (02:31:13):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 17 (02:31:14):
It says Telecon at the top. It doesn't appear to be a deposition.
Speaker 16 (02:31:18):
What do we have this as?
Speaker 17 (02:31:20):
Telecon.
Speaker 22 (02:31:20):
[inaudible 02:31:22].
Speaker 17 (02:31:20):
I'm not objecting-
Speaker 21 (02:31:23):
No, that's fine. And we could go off the record if you want, just to get this.
Speaker 16 (02:31:27):
I don't have this.
Speaker 21 (02:31:27):
So this is... Go ahead.
Jack Emmer (02:31:29):
Yes. We'll go off the record.
Speaker 17 (02:31:40):
I think-
Jack Emmer (02:31:40):
We can go back on the record.
Speaker 21 (02:31:42):
Thank you very much. And this is a long dialogue between Mr. Jack Scarola and Virginia Giuffre, and I will summarize this. It is mentioned by Virginia that everyone owes him, presumably Jeffrey Epstein here, favors. Mr. President, were you ever in the position to owe Jeffrey Epstein a favor?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:32:12):
I didn't consider that. I thought we had an understanding about the airplanes, that he would let me use the airplane to set up my AIDS programs around the world if I agreed to talk to him for an hour about economics and politics on every [inaudible 02:32:27]. I kept my word, and he seemed to honor his.
Speaker 21 (02:32:32):
Were there any sensitive government topics ever discussed in those conversations?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:32:37):
Never.
Speaker 21 (02:32:37):
And also here, Virginia-
Speaker 16 (02:32:39):
Just for the record, did the court reporter to get his response? Thank you so much.
Speaker 21 (02:32:42):
Thank you. Sorry, I'll try not to talk over you. Wrapping up here. Virginia Giuffre is also asked in this document-
Speaker 16 (02:32:50):
The same one you handed us?
Speaker 21 (02:32:51):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 16 (02:32:52):
So we should be looking at?
Speaker 21 (02:32:54):
This is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight lines down. JS is speaking. "Were sexual orgies a regular occurrence on the island at Jeffrey's house?"
(02:33:05)
"Yes."
(02:33:06)
My question, Mr. President, were you ever aware or engaged in any of these sexual orgies?
Speaker 16 (02:33:13):
Are these on the island where he's testified that he's not been on?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:33:15):
No, ma'am. I was never on the island.
Speaker 21 (02:33:18):
Were you ever on any island in the Virgin Islands?
Speaker 16 (02:33:24):
To travel for a trip with his wife, which is on the public record? I'm sorry, what's your question?
Speaker 21 (02:33:29):
With Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:33:29):
No.
Speaker 21 (02:33:31):
You were never in the Virginia Islands with-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:33:33):
In the Virgin Islands with Jeffrey Epstein, no.
Speaker 21 (02:33:35):
Okay. Thank you. Mr. President, there's been new information that has come out regarding the autopsy of Mr. Epstein. I would just like to ask you personally and directly, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself?
Speaker 16 (02:33:50):
Are you asking him to speculate on how Mr. Epstein died?
Speaker 21 (02:33:52):
I'm asking what the president think of-
Speaker 16 (02:33:55):
So you're asking his opinion?
Speaker 21 (02:33:57):
Mr. President, was your friend, Jeffrey Epstein, suicidal?
Speaker 16 (02:34:01):
Are you classifying him as a friend, who he has testified that he's friendly-
Speaker 21 (02:34:04):
He has called him a friend in a letter.
Speaker 16 (02:34:05):
He said he was friendly, but not... You've asked for his testimony here.
Speaker 21 (02:34:08):
Mr. President, do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein was suicidal?
Speaker 17 (02:34:12):
Do you know?
Speaker 21 (02:34:13):
Was he ever suicidal?
Speaker 16 (02:34:14):
She's asking to the best of your understanding.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:34:15):
I don't know. I only know what the medical finding was. I think maybe-
Speaker 17 (02:34:15):
Think that's it.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:34:22):
... he finally got caught, and... I don't know. I've accepted it in my own mind. I don't know what happened.
Speaker 21 (02:34:30):
Mr. President, what did you accept? That he killed himself or that he did not?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:34:34):
That he did, but I don't know.
Speaker 21 (02:34:36):
Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:34:38):
And neither do you. None of us know. We weren't there.
Speaker 21 (02:34:39):
Mr. President, it's been an honor. Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:34:41):
Thank you.
Jack Emmer (02:34:51):
Mr. President, in the previous hour, you discussed your relationship with Ms. Maxwell, and I have a few general follow-up questions, and I may make you repeat yourself, but I'll try hard to not ask you questions you've already answered. First, can you characterize your relationship with Ms. Maxwell after your presidency?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:35:23):
To the best of my memory, I didn't see her very much until she started... I started flying on Mr. Epstein's after airplane.
Jack Emmer (02:35:31):
And for the record, would you at any time ever consider her to be a friend?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:35:36):
Oh, yes, I would.
Jack Emmer (02:35:40):
What years would you consider her to be a friend?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:35:45):
I don't know. When she started going with Ted Waitt, I saw her more frequently, because I saw him more frequently. Then she was around... If you compare the time I spent with her to the time I spent with Mr. Epstein, I spent more time, and I felt that we were better friends.
Jack Emmer (02:36:13):
How did you typically communicate with Ms. Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:36:20):
She showed up at something that I was doing, or...
Speaker 16 (02:36:23):
So in-person?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:36:25):
At CGI, yeah. I bet I never talked to her on the phone more than twice in my life.
Jack Emmer (02:36:33):
And what were the nature of your communications with Ms. Maxwell?
Speaker 17 (02:36:42):
What do you recall?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:36:44):
I don't recall anything. I don't recall what they were, but she was always...
Speaker 17 (02:36:47):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:36:50):
I don't know. She was very interested in CGI. I remember that, and that's it.
Jack Emmer (02:36:58):
And for the record, Mr. President, did you ever have any communications with Ms. Maxwell related to young women or girls?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:37:05):
No.
Jack Emmer (02:37:07):
At this time, I'd like to introduce will be marked as Majority Exhibit 17. And while it's being handed out, I will note for the record that this is the transcript from the two-day Ghislaine Maxwell interview with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, conducted by the Department of Justice on July 24th and 25th of 2025.
Speaker 16 (02:37:29):
Thank you so much.
Jack Emmer (02:37:29):
And I will not be making you read the entire transcript, I will direct your attention when you've had a chance.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:37:34):
Okay.
Jack Emmer (02:37:37):
Mr. President, have you seen this transcript-
Speaker 18 (02:37:41):
Prior to.
Jack Emmer (02:37:41):
... prior to today?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:37:42):
Before?
Jack Emmer (02:37:42):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:37:42):
No.
Jack Emmer (02:37:44):
I'd like to direct your attention to day one, and we are looking specifically at the bottom of page nine.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:37:51):
Yep.
Speaker 16 (02:37:51):
[inaudible 02:37:53].
Speaker 17 (02:37:51):
And we need a copy, [inaudible 02:37:56].
Speaker 16 (02:37:56):
Do we have a second copy and a third copy?
Speaker 18 (02:37:59):
Give me one sec.
Speaker 16 (02:38:00):
Thank you so much [inaudible 02:38:01].
Jack Emmer (02:38:00):
Yeah. We'll go off the record briefly.
(02:38:12)
We will go back on the record.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:38:14):
Yep.
Jack Emmer (02:38:15):
During Ms. Maxwell's interview, she stated that President Clinton was her friend, not Epstein's friend. Is that accurate?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:38:24):
I'd say that it was accurate to say that I felt closer to her than him.
Jack Emmer (02:38:29):
And for the record, why was that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:38:33):
Because I had seen her more, and because she was very good friends with Evelyn Rothschild and his wife Lynn, whom I knew, and was in regular touch with.
Speaker 16 (02:38:48):
And then this part is in here too.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:38:50):
And-
Speaker 17 (02:38:53):
Okay. That's good.
Speaker 16 (02:38:53):
[inaudible 02:38:53]. I just want to make sure-
Speaker 17 (02:38:53):
[inaudible 02:38:55].
Speaker 16 (02:38:55):
... you're reading the right section.
Jack Emmer (02:38:57):
She characterized your relationship with her as warmer.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:04):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (02:39:04):
Is that your question?
Jack Emmer (02:39:06):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 16 (02:39:09):
Warmer than with Jeffrey Epstein?
Jack Emmer (02:39:10):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:13):
Oh, yes. But it was not in any way sexual.
Jack Emmer (02:39:18):
At this time, I'd like to direct your attention to day two of the transcript, and now we are looking at the bottom of page 12-
Speaker 17 (02:39:24):
[inaudible 02:39:25].
Jack Emmer (02:39:25):
... and it is page-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:26):
I see it.
Jack Emmer (02:39:27):
... 258 and 259.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:29):
Is that...
Speaker 16 (02:39:31):
Wait, pardon me. Sorry. I'm not with you. The bottom of page 12 says 42 to 45.
Jack Emmer (02:39:38):
Of day two.
Speaker 16 (02:39:40):
Oh, sorry. I apologize.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:41):
Okay.
Speaker 17 (02:39:42):
Day two, page 12?
Jack Emmer (02:39:44):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:44):
Page 252.
Speaker 17 (02:39:45):
257 to 260, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:46):
Okay.
Jack Emmer (02:39:46):
258 and 259.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:39:48):
Okay. Got it. No.
Speaker 16 (02:39:55):
Can you hold on for one second? Can you wait?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:40:07):
What do you have? 258, 259?
Jack Emmer (02:40:18):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:40:18):
Got it.
Speaker 16 (02:40:24):
Are you asking us to read that?
Jack Emmer (02:40:26):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (02:40:27):
All of 258 and all of 259?
Jack Emmer (02:40:30):
Correct.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:40:51):
Okay. Is there part of this you want me to read?
Speaker 16 (02:40:54):
No.
Speaker 17 (02:40:54):
No.
Speaker 16 (02:40:55):
He has a question. He wants to make sure you've read through here-
Speaker 17 (02:40:57):
You read two pages.
Speaker 16 (02:40:58):
... and you read through here.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:41:12):
Okay.
Speaker 16 (02:41:36):
He's asking about these two. You've read them? This and this. No, you don't have to read the other part yet.
(02:41:55)
Ready?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:41:56):
Yes. Got it.
Jack Emmer (02:41:59):
Mr. President, you've had a chance to review the transcript. Here, Blanche asks Maxwell if she has ever visited your home in Chappaqua, to which Maxwell testifies that she had been invited to visit your home. For the record, did Ms. Maxwell ever visit your home in Chappaqua?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:42:15):
[inaudible 02:42:19].
Speaker 17 (02:42:19):
Excuse me, Counsel. The transcript says, "I went to the house." Does it say invited? Did I miss that?
Jack Emmer (02:42:25):
Maxwell replies after Blanche asked, "Why did you go to the house?"
Speaker 17 (02:42:29):
Got it. Sorry. You're right.
Jack Emmer (02:42:30):
Maxwell says, "I was invited."
Speaker 17 (02:42:31):
Got it.
Jack Emmer (02:42:34):
I will repeat the question again. Did Ms. Maxwell ever visit your home in Chappaqua?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:42:41):
I don't recall, but it's quite possible she did. Hillary was a senator. In the beginning, she had a lot of events there, and we knew her.
Jack Emmer (02:42:55):
During the same exchange, Ms. Maxwell implies that she may have been just driving past Chappaqua and stopped in if you were home. Did this ever occur?
Speaker 17 (02:43:09):
If you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:43:10):
Not that I remember, but I may not have been home.
Jack Emmer (02:43:16):
But Mr. President, is it common for people to just stop by your house?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:43:20):
No.
Jack Emmer (02:43:20):
And for the record-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:43:26):
[inaudible 02:43:26] more than 1 or 2 people who would do that.
Jack Emmer (02:43:28):
So for the record, you're a former president, does your security detail allow people to show up unannounced?
Speaker 16 (02:43:35):
Well, they allow them to, but your question is whether or not the security allows them in.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:43:41):
Yeah. They have to be cleared to be able to come and go.
Jack Emmer (02:43:46):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:43:46):
Like that.
Speaker 23 (02:43:50):
Thank you, Mr. President. I want to ask about Doug Band.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:43:55):
Okay.
Speaker 23 (02:43:59):
What was Doug Band's relationship with you, sir?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:44:03):
Well, it changed over time, but he was basically the last in a long line of young men, they were my sort of body people. They were close to me, and supposed to get me where I was trying to go on time and all of that. And then after he and another young man, Justin Cooper, wanted to come with me when I left the White House. And when you leave the White House, they give you... You get, I don't know, a certain allocation for staff, and I think there are nine positions you can put on federal health insurance. I think that's right. But anyway, Doug and Justin were two of them.
Speaker 23 (02:44:57):
So you'd say he's pretty close?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:44:59):
What?
Speaker 23 (02:44:59):
You were pretty close?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:45:00):
We were close, and Justin wrote my book with me, and he did all the clerical work. And Doug was our main fundraiser when we started off.
Speaker 23 (02:45:14):
Okay. I'd like to introduce Majority Exhibit, I believe it would be 18, which is the EFTA02332287.
Speaker 16 (02:45:36):
Thank you very much. [inaudible 02:45:43]. Thank you for that. Appreciate you.
Speaker 23 (02:45:47):
So this is pretty short. This is an email from Doug Band to-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:45:53):
Yep. I'm familiar with it.
Speaker 23 (02:45:55):
... GMax, which is commonly known as Ghislaine Maxwell.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:45:58):
Yep.
Speaker 23 (02:46:01):
The email states, "You're back? Another way to get in touch with me quicker is on my Blackberry. Actually the president's, but we share it." The email that's listed there, WJC, is that your email address or was that your email address?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:46:19):
Practically, no. I never sent one email on it.
Speaker 23 (02:46:25):
But you recognize that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:46:26):
I recognize it. And I think Doug thought it would increase his cache if he had an email with WJC on it, and...
Speaker 16 (02:46:36):
But he's asking you, is this your email, Mr. President?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:46:39):
No, I didn't send emails on it.
Speaker 23 (02:46:42):
Did you share a Blackberry with Mr. Band?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:46:46):
Well, he says we did, but I think... I finally got another Blackberry.
Speaker 16 (02:46:50):
But this was back before... Okay, Mr. President, this is back in... Think of the year, look at the year. So you make sure you're answering the question.
Speaker 23 (02:46:56):
It's 2001.
Speaker 16 (02:47:00):
He's asking you, was this your Blackberry or did you share this Blackberry with him?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:47:05):
Well, I've been out of office in nine months.
Speaker 16 (02:47:08):
Did you have a phone, Mr. President?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:47:10):
I don't think I did. Anyway, but the truth is, I don't remember.
Speaker 17 (02:47:16):
[inaudible 02:47:17].
William Jefferson Clinton (02:47:16):
I just know that I did not email.
Speaker 23 (02:47:20):
Okay. So you did not email. How often do you send emails, or did you send emails-
Speaker 16 (02:47:26):
Have you ever sent an email, Mr. President?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:47:27):
I sent one email to John Glenn, Senator John Glenn when he was in space at age 77. And I sent an email to the men and women aboard a U.S. ship in the Adriatic during the...
Speaker 17 (02:47:45):
Kosovo?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:47:47):
Kosovo War.
Speaker 16 (02:47:48):
Have you sent any other emails, Mr. President? He's asking.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:47:51):
Since then, I'm not sure I've sent one.
Speaker 23 (02:47:53):
Okay. I'd like to introduce Majority Exhibit number 19.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:48:06):
[inaudible 02:48:06] certified.
Speaker 23 (02:48:27):
Which ends in 2335030.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:48:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 16 (02:48:27):
We have three notes. Great.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:48:27):
[inaudible 02:48:28].
Speaker 16 (02:48:27):
One goes to...
Speaker 23 (02:48:27):
Okay. If you're ready, I'll be happy to read it out loud. Again, it's from GMax, Ghislaine Maxwell.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:48:34):
Yeah, I read it all.
Speaker 23 (02:48:35):
While it's redacted, having seen the unredacted files, we believe that the two is to the same email. It says, "Sorry to hear about the Bellsburg stuff, is bad news, even worse that it may be damaging. You know that one of my pet fears is that in London, I impressed toxic, so I hope that I never add to your woes in that department. If I hear anything, I will of course let you know. I could not help myself. There was one juicy little tit-bit I did let out, the one about what a super stud that you are, and how I have a crush on you, and how you are hung like a horse. And well, you get the picture, hope you don't mind." Are you familiar with this email?
Speaker 16 (02:49:32):
Are you saying at the time it was sent or in the preparation for this?
Speaker 23 (02:49:36):
At the time that it was sent, were you familiar with it?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:49:38):
Oh, no.
Speaker 23 (02:49:39):
Are you familiar with it before-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:49:40):
Yes.
Speaker 23 (02:49:41):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:49:41):
It's now famous.
Speaker 23 (02:49:42):
Okay. Well, what can you tell me about your knowledge of this email?
Speaker 16 (02:49:46):
So if his knowledge is only from when he was prepared for this hearing, that would've been with his counsel, is that what you're... Are you asking for outside of any preparation-
Speaker 23 (02:49:53):
Let me ask this, Mr. President, do you believe that Mr. Band received this email?
William Jefferson Clinton (00:00):
Speaker 23 (02:49:58):
Okay. So...
William Jefferson Clinton (02:50:00):
I do.
Speaker 23 (02:50:03):
Okay. So, there's more. Let me go to the next one. Exhibit, which would be number 20.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:50:16):
And the answer is that I didn't know about this-
David Kendall (02:50:20):
Wait minute, there's no question.
Speaker 23 (02:50:20):
At the time?
Cheryl Mills (02:50:20):
I was just asking you to clarify whether or not you're asking if he knows about these emails at the time they were sent, or if you're asking whether or not he came to learn about them in the course of preparation? Just so that distinction in time is clear.
Speaker 23 (02:50:31):
Okay. I believe this email is also very short. It's just at the top. Again, it's from the WJC email, same one. And two, it says, "This email is silly. I want to spank bottoms tonight."
William Jefferson Clinton (02:51:01):
Who's it from?
Speaker 23 (02:51:03):
It's from the same email account, the same email that has been used before, the WJC email. What was your knowledge of Mr. Band's relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:51:16):
I knew he was... Basically, he contacted her in the same way that she represented Epstein on things. I did not know, nor did I need to know that they had a personal relationship for a while.
Speaker 23 (02:51:35):
A physical relationship?
Cheryl Mills (02:51:37):
Are you asking him whether or not they had a physical relationship?
Speaker 23 (02:51:40):
Do you believe they had a physical relationship?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:51:42):
I don't know for sure.
Speaker 23 (02:51:44):
And just to be clear, and you said it, but you did not have a physical relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:51:48):
I did not-
Cheryl Mills (02:51:49):
The President's answered that question multiple times.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:51:51):
... absolutely.
Speaker 23 (02:51:51):
Yeah. Thank you. Okay. And then finally, I want to move on to another question regarding the visits to the White House. Are you familiar with Mark Middleton?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:52:08):
Yes.
Speaker 23 (02:52:09):
Can you describe who Mark Middleton was?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:52:13):
He was a young man from Arkansas who was really ambitious, wanted to go to work in Washington, wanted to have... And he knew Mack McLarty, my chief of staff, who was from Little Rock, and Bruce Lindsey, who was also from Little Rock. And he worked with us and then later I think he became... I don't know, but maybe he became a lobbyist later. But there was a period of time when he was in a position to wave people to the White House because that was one of his jobs.
Speaker 23 (02:53:00):
Okay. So he has been identified by multiple news sources to be the individual that most of the time was entering or signing in Jeffrey Epstein into the White House?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:53:09):
Yes.
Speaker 23 (02:53:10):
And what role did he have specifically at that time?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:53:12):
He was working on logistical things in the White House, but there must've been someone else who he, told him to let him in. Maybe Mark had the... I don't know if he had the authority to let people in.
Cheryl Mills (02:53:29):
You can only testify to what you know. He's asking, "Who did Mark Middleton work for in the White House?"
William Jefferson Clinton (02:53:35):
I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 23 (02:53:36):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:53:37):
I can find that, but I-
Speaker 23 (02:53:39):
So knowing that he met with Mark Middleton, or was signed in with Mark Middleton, do you have any knowledge of the content of the meetings or the topics of the meetings that Mr. Epstein would be coming for?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:53:51):
No, I never... Mack never said anything to me about meeting with him. And-
Cheryl Mills (02:53:59):
And by Mack, do you mean Mack McLarty, chief of staff?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:54:01):
Yeah.
Cheryl Mills (02:54:02):
Did he work for Mack McLarty?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:54:06):
Well, he might've been, but at the time... Was this at the beginning of my presidency or at the end?
Speaker 23 (02:54:10):
This would've... Well, this would've been during the time... During the '90s, at the beginning-
Cheryl Mills (02:54:15):
1993 to 1995 is what they provided before the period of time for the visits.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:54:20):
He was my first chief of staff, and then he became a special envoy to the Latin America. So-
Glenn Grothman (02:54:26):
And this is Mack McLarty?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:54:28):
Mack McLarty. So...
Speaker 23 (02:54:31):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:54:31):
It depends on... Well, we could tell what he was doing if we knew when this happened.
Speaker 23 (02:54:40):
Okay. Are you aware that Mr. Middleton committed suicide-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:54:44):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 23 (02:54:45):
... in 2022. He was found dead at Heifer Ranch, approximately 30 miles from his home in Little Rock. He was discovered hanging from a tree by an extension cord around his neck, with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest. So he was shot and hung. Do you have any information that leads you to suspect that he did something other than commit suicide?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:55:18):
No.
Speaker 23 (02:55:21):
Okay. Do you have any concerns that this was in relation to his knowledge or relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, given the date-
Cheryl Mills (02:55:31):
The President-
Speaker 23 (02:55:32):
... of his suicide?
Cheryl Mills (02:55:32):
... has already testified to the fact that he was unaware that Mr. Epstein was visiting the White House. So are you asking him then as to what he would've known?
Speaker 23 (02:55:39):
I'm asking when you heard about the death, knowing about the things that have been... At this point, it's all over the news, seeing that he has committed suicide, have you ever had any conversations with people about whether or not there's any relationship between the two?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:55:56):
Oh, no. No one's ever suggested it to me.
Speaker 23 (02:55:59):
Okay. Thank you. I yield back.
Speaker 25 (02:56:04):
Mixed ups. Mr.-
William Jefferson Clinton (02:56:05):
It's really sad.
Speaker 23 (02:56:05):
It is.
Speaker 25 (02:56:06):
Mr. McGuire from Virginia.
Cheryl Mills (02:56:13):
He represents UVA.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:56:14):
What?
Cheryl Mills (02:56:19):
He represents UVA.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:56:22):
What about UVA?
Cheryl Mills (02:56:22):
He represents UVA.
John McGuire (02:56:23):
Thank you, Mr. President, for being here. I served in Navy Special Warfare during your presidency.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:56:29):
Thank you.
John McGuire (02:56:30):
In your opening statement, you talked about preventing future or more human trafficking in our country, and I agree with that. I think that's one of the big purposes of being here. Today, we hope we can get justice for the victims, have accountability and transparency. Just curious, have you read the Epstein files that have been released?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:56:52):
No. I've read many news stories about them, but I haven't read them all.
John McGuire (02:56:57):
And how many Epstein files do you recall were released during the Biden administration?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:57:01):
I don't know.
David Kendall (02:57:03):
If you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:57:04):
How many?
David Kendall (02:57:05):
If you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:57:06):
I don't know.
John McGuire (02:57:07):
Zero. And how many Epstein files have been released during President Trump's second term?
David Kendall (02:57:13):
Again, if you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (02:57:14):
Thanks to the Congress and the victims, quite a number.
John McGuire (02:57:17):
Over three million. Now, as president, you're chief executive for the US, and as we get to the end of this, I'm going to ask you what could we do to prevent... Because I think that's what we all care about, is what do we do to prevent more human trafficking type stuff? So let's talk about Kevin Spacey for a second. In a June 2024 interview on Piers Morgan, Kevin Spacey recounted noticing young girls on the flight and expressed he didn't want to be around this guy, Epstein, because it felt he put the president at risk on that trip to South Africa because there were these young girls. So did Mr. Spacey ever communicate these concerns to you directly?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:57:57):
Not that I recall, no.
John McGuire (02:57:59):
Did anyone else express similar concerns about these young people?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:58:02):
No.
John McGuire (02:58:04):
Do you agree with Mr. Spacey's characterization that these young girls on the flight were concerned?
Cheryl Mills (02:58:10):
I'm sorry. What exactly is the characterization that Mr. Spacey gave?
John McGuire (02:58:16):
That these young girls would put the president at risk.
Cheryl Mills (02:58:19):
So that's Mr. Spacey's concern. And you're asking him whether or not Mr. Spacey said that, shared that with him?
John McGuire (02:58:25):
Yes. Would he agree with that?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:58:26):
I had no reason to believe that at the time.
John McGuire (02:58:32):
Okay. Did you ever feel uncomfortable due to the presence of young girls on any of these flights?
Cheryl Mills (02:58:36):
When you say young girls, do you mean women who are younger than 18? And so you're saying there were women younger than 18?
John McGuire (02:58:43):
I'm asking. Yeah.
David Kendall (02:58:44):
If you can ask that question?
John McGuire (02:58:46):
Were there anybody on the flights that you can recall under age 18?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:58:51):
To the best of my knowledge, there was not. If there was, and I knew it, I would be uncomfortable.
John McGuire (02:58:56):
That answered. All right. Did you ever speak with or otherwise engage with... Well, I think you just answered young girls on these flights, so I'll move on. Ron Burkle, do you know him?
William Jefferson Clinton (02:59:07):
I do.
John McGuire (02:59:08):
All right. Ron Burkle commented on, "Epstein is creepy." I would like to introduce Majority Exhibit... And what's the number? 21. Majority Exhibit 21, page five. The paragraph at the top of the page, the last sentence. If you would take a look at that.
Cheryl Mills (02:59:31):
Could you say what page again?
John McGuire (02:59:32):
Sure. It's page five, the paragraph at the top, the last sentence.
Cheryl Mills (02:59:36):
If you can give us a minute to read it, that'd be great.
John McGuire (03:00:11):
Sure.
Cheryl Mills (03:00:16):
No, page five.
John McGuire (03:00:20):
Top paragraph.
Cheryl Mills (03:00:21):
This paragraph.
John McGuire (03:00:27):
And more specifically, the last sentence of the top paragraph.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:00:46):
Yeah. I didn't know about this.
John McGuire (03:00:48):
So the question would be this, I understand you didn't know anything about it, but let me ask the question. You have no memory of this occurring, correct?
David Kendall (03:00:56):
Excuse me, are you talking about Ron Burkle saying to the president-
John McGuire (03:01:00):
Well, let me read the whole thing.
Cheryl Mills (03:01:01):
He didn't actually say it. It doesn't say that.
John McGuire (03:01:03):
"Sources close to Burkle," it says, "He was invited by Clinton, assumed the rod was vetted and flew home on a commercial jet after finding Epstein to be creepy." It appears if he saw that and he flew home early, but that be that as it may, do you have any memory of this occurring?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:01:19):
I don't.
John McGuire (03:01:20):
Why do you think Mr. Burkle would think Epstein is creepy?
Cheryl Mills (03:01:23):
Are you asking for him-
David Kendall (03:01:23):
Objection, speculative. He can't know what-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:01:26):
I don't know. Some people thought I shouldn't fly with him.
John McGuire (03:01:29):
Did you witness anything unusual with Epstein that would lead you to believe that Epstein was creepy?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:01:35):
No, I never saw him do anything that I was suspicious.
John McGuire (03:01:40):
And you don't recall Mr. Burkle leaving the trip early to fly home commercially after-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:01:48):
I don't know.
John McGuire (03:01:48):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:01:48):
I'm surprised I don't know that.
John McGuire (03:01:50):
Sure. So who else in your circle, because one of the concerns I have is how did someone who is convicted of trafficking humans, how did he infiltrate the highest level of government? If we could get to an idea or a lesson learned, we could prevent that from happening again. Who in your circle while you were president or after in the Clinton Foundation, who else do you think we should question here?
Cheryl Mills (03:02:14):
Can I just clarify one thing? You said, "Who had been convicted." He wasn't convicted at the time.
John McGuire (03:02:17):
Epstein?
Cheryl Mills (03:02:18):
Yes.
John McGuire (03:02:18):
No, I'm talking afterwards. So people that were associated with him because he-
Cheryl Mills (03:02:22):
After he was convicted?
John McGuire (03:02:23):
One of the questions would be is, why do you think Epstein visited the White House so much?
Cheryl Mills (03:02:28):
So he was convicted in 2000 and what, 8?
John McGuire (03:02:32):
I will at least have to look at my notes.
Cheryl Mills (03:02:32):
And he visited the White House in the '90s. So I'm just trying to make sure you're not speaking to before he was convicted, you're talking about after he was convicted?
John McGuire (03:02:40):
So let me go back. So the thing is, he went to the White House many times and he is connected to world leaders all over the place. Many people have resigned as a result of the Epstein files. So I'm just asking a neutral question, and that based on your experience as a world leader, what could we do to prevent predators like this from infiltrating the highest levels of the American government?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:03:01):
Well, when someone knows about it, they should report it and there should be a system set up to act on it.
John McGuire (03:03:08):
Well, I agree with that. Is it true that in 2013, Ms. Maxwell was a guest at the Clinton Global Initiative Conference?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:03:20):
I don't know. When's the last year we had it?
Cheryl Mills (03:03:23):
2013 is one of the years where they're asking whether or not she was there.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:03:26):
I know. I'm trying to...
Cheryl Mills (03:03:28):
So you can just-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:03:31):
Off the top of my head, I don't know.
John McGuire (03:03:32):
Well, I understand that she also attended your daughter's wedding.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:03:37):
She did.
John McGuire (03:03:38):
And so understanding now the unspeakable evil that these people committed, do you believe it was a mistake allowing them close to your family?
Cheryl Mills (03:03:50):
Are you asking if he knew at the time when she was at the wedding?
John McGuire (03:03:53):
Looking back.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:03:54):
Looking back, I had no idea. If I had known what she was doing, I would've done the right thing.
John McGuire (03:04:02):
I understand. Well, I think that-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:04:05):
But I also, keep in mind, I felt bad for Ted Waitt, who was a very close friend of mine, and I never had any doubt about him and still don't.
John McGuire (03:04:19):
Roger that. Well, I think you would agree that we all want justice for the victims, we all want transparency and accountability. We want to strengthen our anti-human trafficking laws. President Trump has secured the border and gone after the cartels and even past legislation to help human trafficking victims. What other legislation could we do based on your experience that would help stop trafficking in America, if not the world?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:04:46):
Well, first you need to ask people who know more about how people get over it. I mean, there's already been a large number of dollars put into settlements, but I think there must be damages to people that will take a lifetime to heal. So I think there needs to be a lot of study on that. And then I think there's the hotlines that where people make reports need to be taken seriously and you need to follow up on them. And I think that the more we talk about it, the less likely it is that another big network will form.
John McGuire (03:05:43):
Thank you for answering my questions.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:05:45):
I think you're doing a good... Just having us talk about it is important.
John McGuire (03:05:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 25 (03:05:53):
Next will be Mr. Grothman from Wisconsin. [inaudible 03:06:00].
Cheryl Mills (03:06:06):
Can I get a time check?
Speaker 24 (03:06:07):
You have approximately 15 minutes remaining.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:06:10):
What?
Speaker 24 (03:06:10):
Approximately 15 minutes remain.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:06:12):
Okay. [inaudible 03:06:17]. Hello, sir.
Glenn Grothman (03:06:27):
Hello, Mr. President. It's on here?
Cheryl Mills (03:06:31):
Yes, we can hear you.
Glenn Grothman (03:06:33):
Was Jeffrey Epstein on... You apparently took 26 flights on planes connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Was he on every flight you were on?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:06:42):
Was he on every flight I was on?
Glenn Grothman (03:06:44):
Yeah.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:06:47):
That's a good question-
David Kendall (03:06:48):
If you know.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:06:49):
What?
David Kendall (03:06:49):
If you know. There're flight manifest, but do you know?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:06:52):
There'll be a record of it, but I think he was, or certainly on most-
Glenn Grothman (03:06:56):
You think he was? Well, that's okay. Was Ghislaine Maxwell on every flight you were on as far as you remember?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:07:05):
The same answer. I think she was, but there'll be a record of it.
Glenn Grothman (03:07:09):
Okay. When you took these flights, you're saying a lot of them were on behalf of your foundation or your charitable work, correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:07:16):
Yes.
Glenn Grothman (03:07:17):
Who did you normally bring on these flights? I assume employees of the foundation, whatever.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:07:22):
I brought people who worked with me, especially people who would have to follow up on the fundraising or people who were involved in my AIDS work. I brought people who-
Glenn Grothman (03:07:42):
Just like I never go anywhere alone, you never went anywhere alone, right?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:07:46):
No.
Glenn Grothman (03:07:46):
We always have an-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:07:48):
And I had the Secret Service with me. And then on occasion, I had people who had volunteered to help us and wanted to see what we were doing. For example, I think it was on one of these trips, I think that I had my first trip for the man who's now the governor of Illinois, JB Pritzker and his wife, they helped me get started. It's all a matter of public record.
Glenn Grothman (03:08:21):
Okay. As far as on your normal trips, could you rattle off say to the four or five people connected to your foundation who you remember were most frequently on these trips, or were most important on the trips? Could you give us the names?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:08:38):
Well, Doug Band, Justin Cooper, Ira Magaziner, and I can't remember who else. I'd be glad to look-
Glenn Grothman (03:08:47):
We'll give you a couple seconds to think. I can't remember who worked for me 10 years ago, so I don't expect you, but anybody else you can think of?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:08:53):
It was 24 years ago. I'd be glad to try to find out who else was there.
Glenn Grothman (03:08:57):
Okay. Well, when you were on the plane, first of all, what did the plane look like when you got on? Can you describe what it looked like?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:09:05):
At first, it looked like a commercial airplane, seats on both sides of the aisle. And typically our crew kind of filled it up for a few, however many... Depending on how many people we had. We had the staff, and the friends of the foundation, and people who were doing the work. Then we had the, the...
Glenn Grothman (03:09:29):
Okay. So it's like a boardroom halfway back?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:09:36):
Yeah. And then we had the Secret Service further back and that was it.
Glenn Grothman (03:09:48):
Okay. How would you spend your time on these flights? When you went to Asia or Sub-Saharan Africa, those are quite trips. What would you do on these trips?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:09:57):
We would spend a fair amount of time talking about what we were going to do at the next stop. We worked a lot. Then we read a lot, and we slept a lot, and we always cut out some time for card games.
Glenn Grothman (03:10:16):
I was going to ask you whether you do cards and you beat me to the punch. What type of cards did you play?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:10:22):
Oh Hell and Hearts.
Glenn Grothman (03:10:24):
Hearts, I was a player, so it's good. You said, was the Secret Service with you every time you went on these trips?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:10:31):
Every time.
Glenn Grothman (03:10:32):
Every time. Okay, good.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:10:34):
I have never signed off Secret Service Protection.
Glenn Grothman (03:10:37):
Okay. Did the Secret Service, they screened all the other passengers and pilots as far as you know?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:10:47):
They what?
Glenn Grothman (03:10:48):
Screened them?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:10:50):
Yeah. They have everybody's name and background and all that.
Glenn Grothman (03:10:57):
Okay. Now, I asked you about people that were connected to the foundation that you brought along, but I take it if they gave you an airplane and Jeffrey was on it, there were his staff too, correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:11:07):
Yeah, he had some staff on it.
Glenn Grothman (03:11:08):
Any of those people you remember, men, women?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:11:13):
Well, I remember Ghislaine was there and there were always the other people that staffed the airplane ride.
Glenn Grothman (03:11:24):
Right. I think one of the reasons you're successful is you deal with the average guy, right? You like to talk to the average guy. Did you remember the names of any of the Epstein staffers that were serving you or that you engaged with banter about?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:11:40):
Well, the one we'd just been talking about.
David Kendall (03:11:42):
Chauntae Davies?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:11:45):
Yeah, Chauntae. I remember her, Chauntae Davies.
Glenn Grothman (03:11:47):
Okay. Anybody else you talked about, "Where are you from?"
William Jefferson Clinton (03:11:50):
Well, I talked to a lot of them. One of them was from Hawaii and was a military wife.
Glenn Grothman (03:11:57):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:11:58):
I remember, but I don't remember their names after 20-something years-
Glenn Grothman (03:12:03):
[inaudible 03:12:04]? Was she Asian?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:12:06):
No.
Glenn Grothman (03:12:07):
No. Okay. Okay. Were there new people that you remember joining in the... This is kind of what, spread out over what, four or five years? Or two or three years, I guess. Two years. Two years on the flight. Did you ever get to the Virgin Islands other than on these planes? Have you ever been in the US Virgin Islands in your life?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:12:36):
Oh, yes. I worked... My foundation did a lot of work in the Virgin Islands.
Cheryl Mills (03:12:45):
And you also vacationed there as president.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:12:46):
Well, yeah. And when I was president, Hillary and I vacationed there, and we liked it very much.
Glenn Grothman (03:12:51):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:12:52):
But when I had the hurricane in 2017, we went to the islands and tried to help. My foundation did.
Glenn Grothman (03:13:05):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:13:06):
And we did a lot of work there.
Glenn Grothman (03:13:08):
Okay. We have another question. When you read about this, and obviously these files have received a lot of public attention, recently a columnist pointed out that one of the reasons this human trafficking was allowed to exist is there were lawyers, sometimes high-priced lawyers, who were able to bring, I guess particularly from Eastern Europe, Eastern European girls through here, negotiate the immigration laws and such. And particularly some very high-priced, famous lawyers, who were hired and apparently I know they couldn't find anything better to do when they left Washington, were engaged in helping, I guess, girls that some people alleged became prostitutes, get here from Eastern Europe. Could you comment on lawyers who make money bringing girls from Eastern Europe or other places around the world into prostitution, coming to this country-
Cheryl Mills (03:14:10):
Sorry, just to clarify, you just want him to comment on that?
Glenn Grothman (03:14:13):
Yeah, I want you to comment. What do you think of these people?
Cheryl Mills (03:14:16):
So, you're asking his opinion-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:14:16):
I don't like it.
Glenn Grothman (03:14:16):
What?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:14:19):
I don't like it, but I don't know much about it.
Glenn Grothman (03:14:21):
Would you think that, would you... Oh, I'm sorry. I'm getting the hook. You know how it is. Saved by the bell. Well, why not finish that question? Do you think if lawyers help legally or illegally people come into this country for the purpose of prostitution, that they should be disbarred?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:14:45):
Not unless it's illegal to do it. If you pass the law which said it was illegal to provide representation, notwithstanding the constitutional right to get-
Glenn Grothman (03:14:56):
You think they're sleazy lawyers if they do it? Can we get you to say that, sleazy lawyers? Can you say they're sleazy?
Cheryl Mills (03:15:03):
For the record, we think lawyers are fantastic.
Glenn Grothman (03:15:05):
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.
Speaker 25 (03:15:08):
And lastly, is Representative Langworthy from Buffalo?
Nick Langworthy (03:15:14):
That's right. We say Buffalo, not New York.
Speaker 25 (03:15:17):
Oh.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:15:17):
I love Buffalo.
Nick Langworthy (03:15:19):
You were there the day after you were acquitted, I remember.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:15:22):
Yes, and 20,000 people filled the gym.
Nick Langworthy (03:15:23):
It was a big crowd.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:15:26):
I'll never forget it.
Nick Langworthy (03:15:27):
Big news. Thank you very much, President.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:15:30):
I'll never forget it.
Nick Langworthy (03:15:32):
You are widely regarded across party lines as one of the most politically perceptive leaders of modern time. Your political instincts are very well documented and your successes of your political career are well documented. How would you describe the substance of your conversations with Jeffrey Epstein during the many hours that you spent together on the aircraft?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:16:02):
Well, at first, he really seemed to be like a vacuum cleaner, like he really wanted information. And there was no... To go back to the business with, what do you call it? The passport, the [inaudible 03:16:21]. There was nothing overtly manipulative about it. He just wanted to know what did I think of derivatives trading? Did I think that the stock market was properly regulated or did it need more? How did we have the most broadly shared prosperity in 50 years? Was it just an accident, was it just technology, or do we have specific policies? He wanted to know stuff like that. And it was great for the first two, three, four, or five conversations. But I could tell that it was like... I mean, you guys are in politics. Don't you ever feel like sometimes somebody's talking to you, and then they're just checking the box and they got to go do something else and be somebody else? I mean, that's the way I felt.
Nick Langworthy (03:17:22):
Interesting. The international travel you took with Mr. Epstein, it represented a significant investment of time and money on his behalf. And I did miss the first portion of this, so if any of this is repetitive, I apologize. Your arrangement was that you would spend an hour of conversation with him on topics of his choosing and that-
Cheryl Mills (03:17:46):
No, he testified, just so that you know-
Nick Langworthy (03:17:48):
I'm sorry, I wasn't-
Cheryl Mills (03:17:48):
... on economics and politics.
Nick Langworthy (03:17:50):
On economics and politics.
Cheryl Mills (03:17:51):
Thank you.
Nick Langworthy (03:17:51):
Okay. And that was the arrangement and the rest was in-kind donation, the flights-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:17:58):
For all the long haul flights, yeah. If we were gone four hours or more, I'd give him an hour.
Nick Langworthy (03:18:04):
Okay. Did you ever ask him directly why he was willing to finance these trips and provide you with access to the plane-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:18:10):
I did.
Nick Langworthy (03:18:10):
... so much? And what was his reaction to that question?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:18:15):
He said, "I think you did a good job as president, and you managed to get reelected, and you're the first Democrat in 60 years that got reelected. I want to know what happened, and I want to understand it." And that was it. And it was never like he was trying to suck up to me or anything, it was very straightforward. But after a while, it was obvious that he had done what he intended to do and he was kind of going through the motions and he didn't really care about what we... I really cared about this AIDS thing. I thought we had a chance to build something that would revolutionize the treatment of all these illnesses. The same thing with tuberculosis and malaria, and sure enough we did. But I thought we were on the verge of something big, and he didn't much care about it. And I had a bunch of people that did, so we went in different ways.
Nick Langworthy (03:19:18):
And as you pointed out, I mean, we're all in the political process, certainly not playing at the levels that you have in your career, but do you believe that this was, in essence, Epstein being a political junkie and looking for that association?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:19:35):
Yes. And I didn't know what else. All I knew was that after we started, when I got this thing going and people could see it like a tugging engine, then we had more and more people interested in helping, and I wanted to have people there that I knew were just genuinely caring. I know it sounds funny, but it matters because when you start something like this you're going to have rough times, spots, things are not going to go right, you're going to have to solve new problems. Far better to have people who are passionate about this.
Nick Langworthy (03:20:14):
So on these overseas visits, did Mr. Epstein accompany you to any of the meetings, or the private dinners, or the official engagements? And if he did, what capacity was he introduced?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:20:26):
He went to some of the meetings and some of the dinners, but the big public dinner we did in South Africa, he did, for example. But some he didn't, when it wasn't appropriate. When I had to talk to somebody about whether I thought they were following a proper legal path, and trying to let us sell generic drugs, and how we're going to get them. There were a lot of complicated things.
Cheryl Mills (03:20:59):
Can I get a time check?
Speaker 24 (03:21:01):
We have like a minute left.
Nick Langworthy (03:21:02):
And did he ever seek introductions to foreign-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:21:05):
Never.
Nick Langworthy (03:21:05):
... dignitaries or leaders from you?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:21:07):
Not that I remember.
Nick Langworthy (03:21:08):
Okay. Did he ever ask you to make phone calls on his behalf?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:21:11):
No, he never did. I remember that he didn't. I mean, I would remember.
Nick Langworthy (03:21:15):
And you said he was not a friend, but with that amount of travel and proximity, why wasn't he a friend and he was an acquaintance?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:21:22):
Well, no, it wasn't just an acquaintance either. I felt friendly toward him. But he was, as I said, in my book, odd. There was always something, a little holding back, and he... And I could tell... It was pretty strange the way it happened. Larry Summers, the president of Harvard, calls you out of the blue, says, "This guy wants to do it." You do it. And then I like to spend as much time as I can with people I know that I can count on. And I didn't have... Honestly, I never saw anything that I knew was illegal, but I just felt I should move on and we did.
Nick Langworthy (03:22:12):
Did you ever have any arguments or disagreements with Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell in the course of your travels?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:22:19):
Not to my knowledge.
Nick Langworthy (03:22:21):
And is there anything that you thought that he was looking to monetize the relationship that he had with you?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:22:28):
No.
Nick Langworthy (03:22:28):
Okay.
Cheryl Mills (03:22:28):
Can we check the time?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:22:35):
My lawyers are going to kill me on this, but I have to say, I want to be honest. I'm not trying to be Goody Two-shoes here. I did feel closer to Ghislaine Maxwell because of Ted Waitt. So I wasn't against the whole deal until I knew what they were doing.
Nick Langworthy (03:22:57):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:22:58):
By then it was too late for me to do anything about it.
David Kendall (03:23:00):
I think your response is to the, "Was he trying to ever monetize the relation to your knowledge?" Was clear.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:23:05):
To the best of my knowledge, he never did.
Nick Langworthy (03:23:07):
Thank you for the opportunity, Mr. President.
Speaker 24 (03:23:09):
Thank you. We will go off the record.
(03:23:18)
We can go back on the record.
Speaker 26 (03:23:24):
Mr. President, I just have a few more questions. I'll try to be as efficient as possible as we move through them. One, it is moving back in time just a little bit. In 1996, Maria Farmer, who was a confirmed Epstein victim, submitted information to the FBI that Jeffrey Epstein was sexually abusing minors. During your presidency, were you ever made aware of the information that Maria Farmer provided to the FBI in 1996?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:23:58):
No. And... No.
Speaker 27 (03:23:59):
Good.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:23:59):
No.
Speaker 27 (03:23:59):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:24:05):
Thank you. I'm going to move back ahead to the year 2003. There's just one international trip that I don't think we've specifically discussed yet. And that was in November of 2003, a trip to, I think, Russia and China on Mr. Epstein's plane.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:24:26):
Is that the last one I took?
Speaker 4 (03:24:28):
Great. So I'm going to give you, I think for us, the last piece of paper for the day, which is the flight log for that trip. And we'll mark that as-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:24:36):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:24:36):
Minority Exhibit L. And I'll give you a moment to receive that.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:24:43):
Wow.
Speaker 28 (03:24:43):
Thank you very much.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:24:48):
[inaudible 03:24:46], went through, I can't tell.
Speaker 29 (03:24:50):
You went through Russia.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:24:51):
Huh?
Speaker 29 (03:24:51):
You went through Russia, you were coming from Norway.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:24:54):
And for your counsel, that's a total of five trips distributed between the fourth, fifth, sixth, and ninth here on this log.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:25:06):
Yeah, this was another one of our AIDS trips because Ira was on it.
Speaker 4 (03:25:13):
Yeah. So if you could just describe what you recall about the circumstances of this trip.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:25:29):
Can you refresh my memory about what stops were actually taken?
Speaker 4 (03:25:34):
Yeah. The countries in question are Russia and China. I think the final stop was Beijing. I do not, off the top of my head, recall what each of these airport codes are.
Speaker 29 (03:25:50):
It was Brussels to Oslo, to Tolmachevo, Russia, to Hong Kong, Chengdu, Beijing.
Speaker 4 (03:25:58):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:26:00):
Okay. Let's do it again.
Speaker 29 (03:26:05):
Brussels to Oslo, to the middle of Russia, Tolmachevo, to Hong Kong, to Chengdu, to Beijing.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:26:11):
Got it. We stopped in Europe, and as I remember, we did something with Brussels as the parliamentary capital of Europe, and I think we did something with the EU. And then, Oslo was important because the Norwegians had funded a project that we did for them, for the Clinton Foundation, for Russia. And they asked us to try to develop a plan for Leningrad, and we did.
Speaker 28 (03:27:21):
What kind of plan, Mr. President?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:27:22):
An AIDS plan, because Leningrad had a very high AIDS rate because it was near the ocean and people were coming in and out. And I think that's what happened then. And then we went to China, and I had been doing a lot of work on China and it was very interesting because the Chinese were eager to get into this and yet scared. It was very interesting. If you were in Russia and China, you could have been in rural America on AIDS at the time. They were very reluctant to discuss this and all hung up about it. And the Chinese, with whom I had good relations at the time, the national government asked me, they said, "They like you out in the country here." 'Cause I had been there in 1998 and had a big trip. And he said, "We want you to go out there and be photographed on state television playing with children and talking to their families about AIDS." So that's what this whole trip was about. So I was doing that.
(03:29:03)
And I'm almost sure that's it, and then we stopped in Hong Kong on the way out, right?
Speaker 29 (03:29:11):
Yep. Hong Kong and then Beijing.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:29:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:29:14):
Thank you very much. I appreciate that context. Is it correct that while on that trip, you did not witness or become aware of sexual abuse of any kind?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:29:23):
No, we were all busy as crazy and I never saw anything like that.
Speaker 4 (03:29:28):
Thank you. We have a few events for which we don't have exact dates, I'll ask about them one at a time. CNN has reported that in July of 2003, Ms. Maxwell co-hosted a fundraiser for your presidential library and Mr. Epstein may have attended. We don't know whether or not you attended that event. Do you have any recollection of attending that event?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:29:55):
I don't. I wouldn't be surprised I don't remember anything about it.
Speaker 4 (03:29:59):
Thank you. An investigative journalist named Vicky Ward has claimed that Ms. Maxwell accompanied you on a trip to India sometime in 2003, including to the Taj Mahal, and that you traveled for that trip on a private jet owned by billionaire, Ron Burkle. Do you have any recollection of the trip I just described?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:30:24):
No. But I want to be forthright here. The first thing I did in the way of public service after I left office, was to try to help India deal with the aftermath of the Gujarat earthquake, which happened literally four days after I gave up the White House. And so I called the Prime Minister of India, who was a friend of mine, and he said, "I need help. I've got to build schools and hospitals, and I can't do anything in the small towns and the middle-sized towns and the rural areas, I only have the money to do something in the big cities." So I'm not saying I did or didn't do this, I have no memory, but I don't want to mislead anybody, we were doing tons of stuff, and we needed to finance it. So I can't say that I didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (03:31:40):
Thank you. In your 2024 memoir, you said that by the time Epstein was arrested in 2005, that you had stopped contact with him. When do you recall being the last time that you had any kind of communication with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:31:55):
The last time I remember, with him, was sometime in 2003.
Speaker 4 (03:32:03):
Attorney Brad Edwards, that's an attorney who's represented many of Mr. Epstein's survivors.
Speaker 29 (03:32:08):
Excuse me, counsel, I believe there was a misstatement there. The book says, "Who in 2008 had been convicted and jailed in Florida," not 2005.
Speaker 4 (03:32:18):
Okay. Thank you.
Speaker 29 (03:32:18):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (03:32:22):
I appreciate that. Attorney Brad Edwards has represented many of Mr. Epstein's survivors. He claimed, in a 2011 filing, that he believed the Justice Department possessed some kind of correspondence from you from 2007 or 2008 on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein. At any of the various points when Mr. Epstein was under investigation, did you or any of your representatives ever submit any correspondence to the Department of Justice on his behalf?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:32:52):
I have no memory of that.
Speaker 4 (03:32:56):
To your recollection or knowledge, did you or your representatives ever have any other communication with the Department of Justice regarding Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:33:05):
Not that I remember, no.
Speaker 4 (03:33:09):
CNN has reported that in 2007, Ms. Maxwell co-hosted a fundraiser for Secretary Clinton's presidential campaign in New York City. We believe that Christina Aguilera may have performed at that event. Do you have any knowledge or recollection of attending that event?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:33:29):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (03:33:33):
There was an email released as part of the DOJ files recently, that suggested you may have attended a party at Ghislaine Maxwell's home in October of 2009, and that publicist, Peggy Siegal, as well as Jeff Bezos may have attended. My only question to you is whether you have any recollection of attending a party that I just described.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:33:58):
Is this her home in New York City?
Speaker 4 (03:34:00):
It would be at Ms. Maxwell's home in New York City.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:34:06):
No, I have no memory of that at all.
Speaker 4 (03:34:08):
Thank you. It's been widely reported that in July of 2010, Ms. Maxwell attended your daughter, Chelsea's wedding in Rhinebeck, New York, and that she accompanied billionaire, Ted Waitt, who was at least at the time, a family friend of yours, and you've described a little bit today. You, of course, were at that wedding as well. Do you have any specific recollection of interacting with Ms. Maxwell at that wedding?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:34:39):
No, I was an emotional wreck. I was just trying not to fall off the little, what do you call the pallets?
Speaker 28 (03:34:49):
The-
Speaker 29 (03:34:49):
The desk?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:34:49):
No, the wooden...
Speaker 29 (03:34:53):
Oh, right, right.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:34:54):
That we walked on the grass with. I knew she was there and she and Ted were there.
Speaker 4 (03:35:02):
And what was your understanding of her relationship with Mr. Waitt at the time?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:35:09):
Well, I thought they were together and I think Chelsea and Mark did too and they were there.
Speaker 4 (03:35:22):
It's also been reported that in 2011, your advisor, Doug Band, instructed an aide to remove Ms. Maxwell from all attendance related lists for Clinton related events. This was reportedly in the wake of Virginia Roberts Giuffre and allegations that she made at the time against many people, including Ms. Maxwell. Do you have any memory or knowledge of Mr. Band's instructions that I just described?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:35:46):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (03:35:46):
Okay. Thank you. That takes us through most of the known timeline of your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. There's just one more topic I would like to cover, that is the Clinton Global Initiative. In 2007, Mr. Epstein's lawyers claimed that he was part of the original group that conceived the Clinton Global Initiative. Would you agree with that characterization?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:36:14):
No.
Speaker 4 (03:36:15):
Can you elaborate a little bit on why you would not agree with that?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:36:19):
I wouldn't agree with that because the first time I ever discussed what became the Clinton Global Initiative was with Doug Band and the rest of our small group on the way back from Davos. And Doug said we should have a meeting like this in New York at the opening of the UN, and we can make a lot of money. Because you don't have to go to Davos and you can meet all these people, they'll be here. And I said, "I want to do it for an entirely different reason. It's fine if we make money, but the most important thing is that we give serious people a chance to go to meetings and actually make commitments to make positive change. I'm tired of going to meetings where everybody just bloviates and doesn't ever do a damn thing. So if we can figure out how to do that, I'm interested."
(03:37:28)
And then we got a team to operationalize it. It was Doug Band, Mary Morrison, who had worked for me in the inner office at the White House and a man named Ed Hughes, who was a wonderful young guy who stayed with us the whole 12 years. And they were working on how to stand up and do the mechanics of this. And my job was to try to get some people who would come, that people would want to hear and see and try to make it exciting and make people actually want to make commitments. And so I think it was at that point that Ghislaine may have gotten involved, I don't know. You can ask him about it, but I'm just telling you how it began. It began with Doug said, "Let's do this and make money." And me saying, "Let's do this and make commitments."
Speaker 29 (03:38:39):
I think the question, Mr. President, which you've answered, was, was Jeffrey Epstein involved in the initiation?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:38:45):
At the time, no, not at all.
Speaker 29 (03:38:47):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:38:47):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:38:48):
But I do not know what happened after.
Speaker 4 (03:38:51):
It has been publicly reported that in 2006, Mr. Epstein made a $25,000 donation to the Clinton Foundation. Do you have any specific knowledge or recollection of that donation?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:39:03):
No, I saw that it was reported, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:39:07):
Thank you. With respect to Ms. Maxwell, and you just touched on it briefly, she told DOJ last July that she was, "Very central to the startup of the Clinton Global Initiative." Would you agree with that characterization?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:39:25):
I would agree that she worked hard. I now know, I didn't at the time, because as I explained, I was working on a whole nother part of this.
Speaker 4 (03:39:36):
If I could ask you to limit your answer to your knowledge at the time.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:39:39):
At the time, I did not know it.
Speaker 4 (03:39:41):
Thank you. The New York Times recently reported that in 2004, Ms. Maxwell arranged a $1 million payment to an events company called Publicis Groupe, and that the payment may have had some connection with the first Clinton Global Initiative Conference in 2005. The reporting suggests that Mr. Epstein may have been involved with the payment or somehow aware of the payment. Do you have any specific memory or knowledge or recollection of the $1 million payment I just described?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:40:16):
No.
Speaker 4 (03:40:20):
It's also been reported that in September of 2013, at a Clinton Global Initiative Conference, Ms. Maxwell was recognized as a commitment to action partner for her work on behalf of the TerraMar Project, which was an ocean conservation nonprofit that she founded in 2012. Do you have any memory or knowledge of that conference?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:40:43):
I do.
Speaker 4 (03:40:44):
Great. Could you describe a little bit what you recall?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:40:48):
Yeah, because this shows you how the CGI work, not for Ghislaine, for everybody. First, she was still with Ted Waitt and he was still heavily involved in ocean work, so that was sort of an incentive. But she had organized this group whose objective was to, in effect, take two massive islands made of metal and junk out of the Atlantic. And they were floating around, one of them had gotten to the Caribbean. They were floating around in all this metal, so that was what she was trying to do. It was a good idea and she was recognized for that. The fact that she was recognized was not particularly remarkable, everybody who makes a commitment goes through a photo line and gets recognized.
Speaker 4 (03:41:46):
Did you have any personal role in Ms. Maxwell's recognition at that event or would that have been-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:41:54):
No, I might've been in the room by the time she got it, but it wasn't... No, they put the recognition in that room, I remember this specifically because it was where all the ocean freaks were, all the people that cared about this, that wanted to be... So that's why they wanted those things announced there.
Speaker 28 (03:42:12):
By ocean freaks, you mean people who are passionate about the ocean?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:42:15):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (03:42:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 30 (03:42:16):
[inaudible 03:42:17].
William Jefferson Clinton (03:42:18):
I mean that. People who were fascinated about doing this, it was great. And so I didn't think a thing about it.
Speaker 4 (03:42:21):
Do you have any additional knowledge or recollection related to Ms. Maxwell's role at that event?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:42:33):
No.
Speaker 4 (03:42:35):
Reportedly, in February of 2014, you had dinner with Ms. Maxwell and others in Los Angeles, at a vegan restaurant called Crossroads Kitchen. That dinner may have been organized by your then deputy chief of staff, Jon Davidson, perhaps around 20 guests. Do you have any recollection of the dinner I just described?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:42:59):
I had a lot of dinners like that in Los Angeles, so I don't remember that specific one. But whenever I went to Los Angeles, I attempted to have a dinner someplace in public with a lot of my friends, just to keep in touch with them, keep going.
Speaker 4 (03:43:18):
As far as you can recall, when was the last time you had any form of communication with Ms. Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:43:27):
I think it must be a decade ago, it may be even longer, I don't know, but it was a long time.
Speaker 4 (03:43:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 31 (03:43:39):
Mr. President, it's a pleasure to be here and quickly, on a lighter note, a point of personal privilege. My birthday is November 5th, 1974, which shouldn't mean anything to you, but what it means is, is that I turned 18 two days after the election, and I couldn't vote and I'm still upset about that. So on behalf of my mom, I apologize, she was a little slow.
(03:44:05)
Now, President Clinton, as counsel noted at the beginning of this deposition, Donald Trump posted on social media that he wanted Attorney General Pam Bondi to investigate you and other prominent Democrats in order to distract from his own close ties to Jeffrey Epstein. That post was previously marked as Minority Exhibit B, which you already have.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:44:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 31 (03:44:35):
President Trump's post refers to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes against young girls and women as the Epstein hoax. His post also completely ignores several other high profile individuals, including Republicans and allies of President Trump who were known to have had relationships with Epstein. In fact, the Epstein files contained numerous officials in the current and previous Trump administrations who have connections to Jeffrey Epstein, including Howard Lutnick, RFK Jr., Steve Bannon, Tom Barrett, Kevin Warsh, and Mehmet Oz to name a few. President Clinton, to your knowledge, has the Trump administration done anything at all to investigate these other individuals with ties to Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:45:21):
Well, I wouldn't be in a position to know they... It's the truth, as I said earlier, the only conversation I had with President Trump about this was in the early 2000s, and I have no information that he did anything wrong. I just want it all out there, I want everybody to get it all out there and let everybody see where we are.
Speaker 31 (03:45:50):
And had you had any conversations with him since the early 2000s about this subject matter?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:45:57):
No.
Speaker 31 (03:45:59):
And then my last question is, Howard Lutnick recently went so far as to lie about his close connections with Jeffrey Epstein, but the truth came out with the release of the files. President Clinton, is Howard Lutnick still employed as Secretary of Commerce in the Trump administration, to your knowledge?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:46:17):
I think he is.
Speaker 31 (03:46:18):
And in your opinion, why has Donald Trump ignored these other prominent figures who've had close ties to Epstein?
Speaker 28 (03:46:25):
He's asking your opinion, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:46:34):
Lutnick runs a big company and has made a lot of money and has supported him strongly, I don't think he believes that he's done anything bad enough to... I think he thinks he took his family to the island and he couldn't have done anything wrong. That's what I think he thinks. But I'm speculating, I'm doing what I have no business doing, because I really don't know.
Speaker 31 (03:47:01):
Thank you, Mr. President.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:47:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 30 (03:47:02):
It's okay. I should-
Speaker 28 (03:47:02):
Can you-
Speaker 30 (03:47:07):
Thank you. I'll speak up.
(03:47:10)
Thank you, Mr. President, for being here, for your service. I'll be brief. I think most of the pertinent questions have been asked today. I want to talk about transparency. You and Secretary Clinton were both very clear about your desire to testify publicly before this committee. In fact, on February 6th, 2026, you posted on social media, " I will not sit idly as they use me as a prop in a closed door kangaroo court by a Republican party running scared. If they want answers, let's stop the games and do this the right way, in a public hearing where the American people can see for themselves what this is really about."
(03:47:45)
President Clinton, why do you feel it is important for you to testify before this committee in a public setting?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:47:53):
Because I think that, first, what happened with Jeffrey Epstein was horrible. What he did and what Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of, it was horrible. We can't tolerate it in America and shouldn't. We ought to keep doing, as Hillary talked about yesterday, try our part to get rid of that kind of trafficking around the world. Secondly, I was on the plane, it may be that I've said something today that gave you some indication that would help change policies or something. So I thought it was important. But I also think people know that there's been a little bit of zig and zag and ambivalence about how hard this thing should be put out there. And I'm not pointing a finger at anybody or anything, I'm just saying we know that. And so I think it's important that we get it all out.
Speaker 30 (03:49:07):
So to be clear, so this committee issued a subpoena to the Department of Justice to release the full and unredacted files last summer. There's also now the Epstein Files Transparency Act that asked for the same, that President Donald Trump signed into law. But still, the Department of Justice under this administration has not released all of the files and there's been many illegal redactions. Do you think that we, of course, as Congress, and the American public should get the full and unredacted files immediately?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:49:38):
I think unless there is some serious danger of physical harm to one of the victims, there's some national security interest involving intelligence, because you've heard these, and some of you think that there's some intelligence issues, national security issues. I think the rest of it ought to be gotten out, and I think we just need to get to a point where we can put this behind us. And then I think you, I hope you can, and will, help build us a system that works in America the way our international system works best, in trying to identify and stop human trafficking and trying to make people whole once they've been damaged.
Speaker 30 (03:50:34):
And, not a question, but just in response, the law is very clear about the identities of the victims.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:50:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 30 (03:50:40):
Unfortunately, the Department of Justice has wrongfully released some of that information, including personally identifiable information, while illegally redacting names of-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:50:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 30 (03:50:50):
Potential co-conspirators, so.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:50:53):
They're going to kill me for saying this, but I think it's important to say.
Speaker 29 (03:50:54):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:50:58):
I think it is entirely possible that people in the Justice Department, I don't agree with on nearly anything, right, but it's possible that they didn't intentionally cover some of this stuff up. But it's hard to accept that when you look at the other problems in dealing with the information. So you guys got to clear that up, clean it up, decide how you think it should be handled.
Speaker 30 (03:51:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (03:51:31):
So before we go off the record, just one clarification. It's more just for counsels. The quote from the 2024 memoir, I think was accurately quoted in the first instance. The full sentence is, "He," meaning Mr. Epstein, "Hurt a lot of people, but I knew nothing about it. And by the time he was first arrested in 2005, I had stopped contact with him." And that's the end of the sentence, that's page 373. So that's just for counsel and the-
Speaker 29 (03:51:57):
My apology.
Speaker 4 (03:51:58):
No, not at all. And with that, we can end this round and go off the record.
Speaker 32 (03:52:10):
We'll go back on the record. Mr. President, during the last hour, there was a discussion related to your book, with minority counsel. I just wanted to read the excerpt into the record and just a quick question for clarification. You said, "I had always thought Epstein was odd, but had no inkling of the crimes he was committing. He hurt a lot of people, but I knew nothing about it. And by the time he was first arrested in 2005, I had stopped contact with him."
(03:52:45)
We understand that Mr. Epstein was arrested in July of 2006. Can you explain the discrepancy?
Speaker 28 (03:52:55):
Are you asking him to fact check his own book?
Speaker 32 (03:52:57):
Correct.
Speaker 28 (03:52:58):
Okay. I mean-
Speaker 32 (03:52:59):
Can you explain it or not?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:53:00):
I can't. I'm sorry, we made a mistake.
Speaker 32 (03:53:04):
Thank you.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:06):
All right. Mr. President, Congresswoman Nancy Mace from South Carolina, thank you for being here with us for hours today. I know it's been a long day-
Speaker 32 (03:53:13):
No, it's-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:13):
And I know that we're going to wrap up soon for you. Did you know one of the witnesses who testified in the Epstein cases that Epstein said, you "Like them young." Why would Epstein say that about you?
Speaker 28 (03:53:25):
Are you asking his opinion?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:27):
I'm-
Speaker 28 (03:53:27):
You're asking him to think about why Mr. Epstein would say something about-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:31):
Correct. Why would Epstein say that about the President?
Speaker 28 (03:53:32):
So she's asking you to try to be in Mr. Epstein's mind and guess at what Mr. Epstein would have thought about.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:53:38):
First of all-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:38):
"Clinton like them young," referring to girls.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:53:44):
First of all, that's not true.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:50):
What's not true?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:53:52):
That I have any interest in underage-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:53:59):
I didn't say underage, I said young.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:01):
But it's still not true.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:04):
Is an intern young?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:07):
Yes.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:08):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:09):
At my age, anybody younger than I am, was young.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:11):
Did you know Jeffrey Epstein instructed a witness to deny you were ever on his island?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:17):
He didn't have to, since I was never there.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:20):
Did you ever travel to Zorro Ranch?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:23):
Is that the one in New Mexico?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:24):
Yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:24):
No.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:25):
Okay. Have you ever flown on anyone else's private jet 26 times or more for overseas trips?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:34):
I have flown as many miles on other jets, but never with as many stops.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:39):
How many other people's planes have you used like Epstein, 26 times or miles, et cetera?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:48):
I don't know. I did with Steve Bing, who's now deceased, and probably with four or five others.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:54):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:54):
I'd like to think.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:55):
So maybe about a half dozen-
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:55):
Yeah.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:54:58):
Billionaires total or so.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:54:58):
Yeah.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:00):
How many dinners did you have with Ghislaine Maxwell, or Jeffrey Epstein in attendance?
Speaker 28 (03:55:05):
She's asking to the best of your recollection.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:55:07):
I have no idea.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:09):
Okay. Did you ever discuss sexual misconduct allegations made against you, with Epstein or Maxwell?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:55:14):
Never.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:15):
Did Epstein or Maxwell ever offer to help manage or silence women who made sexual misconduct allegations against you?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:55:21):
No.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:22):
Did Epstein or Maxwell ever offer financial support directly or indirectly to legal defense funds related to impeachment proceedings or civil actions against you?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:55:30):
Not to my knowledge.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:31):
Do you think a young girl massaging a president is unusual?
Speaker 28 (03:55:35):
So are you asking his opinion?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:37):
Well-
Speaker 28 (03:55:37):
You're asking his opinion-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:38):
He was massaged by a young woman, I'm asking if he thinks it's unusual that a sitting President of the United States, leader of the free world, that it's unusual-
Speaker 28 (03:55:45):
So I'm sorry-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:45):
A young woman would be-
Speaker 28 (03:55:46):
Are you talking to the instance of the-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:48):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (03:55:48):
The back massage?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:49):
Is it unusual that a young woman would be massaging-
Speaker 28 (03:55:51):
That occurred while he was not president? I'm just trying to understand, you said a President of the United States.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:55):
Former President.
Speaker 28 (03:55:56):
Thank you. Just trying to make sure we're correcting the timeframe.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:55:59):
Are you filibustering?
Speaker 28 (03:56:00):
No, I don't need to.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:01):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (03:56:01):
I'm actually trying to make sure that as you-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:02):
I think I'm pretty clear, he said [inaudible 03:56:04].
Speaker 28 (03:56:04):
You said he was a sitting president.
Speaker 33 (03:56:05):
Excuse me, excuse me, could we just please go one at a time, thank you.
Speaker 28 (03:56:08):
You said a sitting president, I want you to be clear so that when he answers you-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:11):
When you were sitting president, however you want to do it.
Speaker 28 (03:56:12):
The record is clear.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:12):
Is it unusual?
Speaker 29 (03:56:15):
Objection.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:56:15):
I have no idea if it's unusual or not.
Speaker 29 (03:56:17):
Objection. Calls for speculation.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:19):
I figured. Did you ever think that all these women around Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell was odd, unusual, weird, or creepy?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:56:29):
There weren't all that many around when I was there.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:31):
How many would you say is not all that many?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:56:34):
I think on this big plane that was working long hours, having two to four people on there, I thought was, as far as I knew, they were all helping.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:46):
Flight attendants in tank tops and jeans, right?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:56:49):
No.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:56:50):
Do you believe you were a victim of a Jeffrey Epstein intel operation? Do you think that you might have been caught up in some of what he was maybe potentially doing?
Speaker 29 (03:57:01):
Excuse me, Counselor, which question are you asking?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:03):
I'm asking if-
Speaker 29 (03:57:03):
Intel operation?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:57:03):
First of all, I don't-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:08):
Some type of intel operation. I'm just curious, because it's been speculated on today and yesterday.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:57:11):
I understand.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:12):
That he may have been an intel asset. Do you think perhaps knowing what we know now, the proclivity of it all, that he may have been targeting you as part of an intel operation?
William Jefferson Clinton (03:57:24):
I doubt it.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:24):
Okay. In 2019, after he was arrested, I guess this would be the second time, you stated you knew nothing of Epstein's, "terrible crimes," since you only met, "briefly," on only, "two occasions." Was this statement false?
Speaker 29 (03:57:38):
Excuse me, Counsel, could you put in the record-
Speaker 28 (03:57:39):
That's not an accurate statement.
Speaker 29 (03:57:39):
That statement.
Speaker 28 (03:57:39):
Can you please share us the [inaudible 03:57:43]?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:42):
Yes. In 2019, it's reported by the media.
Speaker 28 (03:57:46):
Which media?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:47):
This says this is the-
Speaker 28 (03:57:49):
Could you share a copy of it please?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:57:50):
Okay, Daily Beast. It says the title of this is, "Bill Clinton failed to mention his intimate 1995 dinner with Epstein."
Speaker 34 (03:57:58):
We can give counsel and the witness
Jack Emmer (03:58:00):
... moment to review the exhibit.
Speaker 35 (03:58:02):
Well, we'd like this statement. I mean, he put out a statement in 2019.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:58:04):
I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 35 (03:58:06):
A full statement.
Jack Emmer (03:58:08):
And it will be marked Exhibit 22.
Speaker 36 (03:58:12):
So to be clear, the basis of your question is a news article with respect to The Daily Beast as to a dinner. Is that accurate?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:58:19):
Nope, it's a question in the first paragraph which reads, "Hours [inaudible 03:58:23] Jeffrey Epstein was arraigned Monday on several sex trafficking charges. Former President Bill Clinton publicly downplayed his relationship with the pedophile financier, saying he knew nothing of his terrible crimes since they only met briefly on two occasions."
Speaker 36 (03:58:36):
And that's in The Daily Beast, is that not correct?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:58:38):
Correct, which is in your hand right now.
Speaker 36 (03:58:39):
Right, that's what I just said.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:58:40):
Yes.
Speaker 36 (03:58:41):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (03:58:43):
Well, what would you like to know?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:58:46):
My question is, you stated you'd only met Jeffrey Epstein in 2019. You say you'd only met him on two occasions. Was this statement false when you made it?
Speaker 36 (03:58:53):
To be clear, this is a news reporting that is saying that that's what he said.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:58:56):
Did you make this statement in 2019?
Speaker 35 (03:58:58):
Would you put in the statement that he made, this is a news report? It's double hearsay.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:03):
No. Did you make this statement in 2019 as reported by the media?
Speaker 36 (03:59:07):
So you're asking whether or not he made a statement to The Daily Beast?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:09):
Nope. It says quote, it's quoting him or his office, et cetera. Are you denying you made this statement?
Speaker 35 (03:59:15):
It's quoting a sentence. If you put in the entire statement, that's all we ask. To be fair, give him the statement, not what has been reported on. I have no idea what The Daily Beast's take is.
Speaker 36 (03:59:24):
The statement that was released that was broader than this and they relied on only a portion of it. They relied on only a portion of his full statement?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:31):
And that's the portion I'm focusing on. He said-
Speaker 36 (03:59:33):
Well then, so it's actually a misrepresentation of his entire statement.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:38):
Well, can you let your client answer the question?
Speaker 36 (03:59:40):
Well, can you ask it in a way that would make it clear that what you were actually asking-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:44):
I made it very clear. His statement said he met with Jeffrey Epstein-
Speaker 36 (03:59:45):
Is the broader question of what did he say?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:47):
He said he briefly met with him only on two occasions.
Speaker 36 (03:59:51):
No, The Daily Beast selected that piece out.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:52):
So are you denying that the President made this statement?
Speaker 36 (03:59:54):
What I'm saying is that there is an entire statement, that's the statement on which the president spoke to.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (03:59:59):
I'd like to provide it to this committee.
Speaker 36 (04:00:01):
We're happy we provide that committee.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:00:04):
Okay, I would like to ask the President this question. Was that a false statement that you made in 2019, that you only met with Jeffrey Epstein briefly on two occasions?
Speaker 35 (04:00:10):
Object to the basis of this question. You're asking him about a news article, not the statement he made.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:00:17):
It's quoting him. It's quoting the President of the United States. Are you denying the President made this statement? Are you denying he made the statement? I want to know.
Speaker 35 (04:00:28):
No, I'm telling you that the President made a full statement. You are selecting a piece of it. Let's put in the entire statement that he made.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:00:32):
I wasn't in federal office in 2019, I was not a part of this committee. I was a State House rep from Goose Creek, South Carolina. And I'm quoting open sources that I have, to the best of my knowledge. I'm not rich with a bunch of attorneys, okay? I'm doing the best that I can to get the information I can. And I'm asking if the President was telling a lie in 2019 when he stated to the public he'd only met with Jeffrey Epstein on two occasions.
Speaker 35 (04:00:56):
He did not say that.
Speaker 36 (04:00:57):
He didn't say to the public, you misrepresented.
Speaker 35 (04:00:58):
Congressman Mace, let me be clear. I'm not asking about your right to ask him any questions, but don't do it on the basis of a news article. The news article's quoting his statement.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:01:08):
So is the news article lying? It's the news article false?
Speaker 35 (04:01:11):
It's false if you take it to mean what you say, which the statement did not do.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:01:15):
Do you understand English? Seriously.
Speaker 35 (04:01:18):
I think I do. I'm not from South Carolina, but I think I do.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:01:20):
Did you make a statement, Mr. President, in 2019 that you only met with Jeffrey Epstein twice? I'm asking the question a different way.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:01:29):
I have no idea, but I think that when I answer that, I don't believe I remembered anything about meeting him in 1995.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:01:41):
So when making a statement about Jeffrey Epstein in 2019, would you have checked with your staff on maybe White House logs about the 17 times he visited, dinners you had with him, fundraising that you did with him, fundraising dinners, he was on? You were on his flights 26 times. Would you have checked with your staff before making such a statement or would you have just-
Speaker 35 (04:02:00):
Congressman Mace, what statement are you talking about? Are you talking about the entire statement that he made in 2019?
Speaker 36 (04:02:09):
Ms. Mace, can I just ask you for... Can I ask you for the record?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:10):
Excuse me.
Speaker 36 (04:02:11):
Ms. Mace, can I ask you for the record? Can you read the article into the record, please?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:13):
I'm not going to read the article into the record.
Speaker 36 (04:02:15):
Well, Ms. Mace, you are indicating that this article misrepresents the piece-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:17):
I'm quoting from-
Speaker 36 (04:02:20):
Could you read the article into the record?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:20):
[inaudible 04:02:20] read an article into the record, I'm not going to do that. You're not in charge of me, I am quoting from this article.
Speaker 36 (04:02:27):
I'm not seeking to be in charge of you. Believe me, that is something I would not at all seek to be.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:30):
Don't even try.
Speaker 36 (04:02:30):
So I want to be respectful, but I am asking if you're asking him to speak to this, can you please put the entire article in the record?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:38):
The entire article is in the record as an exhibit. What exhibit number is this?
Jack Emmer (04:02:42):
22.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:43):
22.
Speaker 36 (04:02:43):
And yet-
Jack Emmer (04:02:44):
Counsel-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:02:44):
It's already in the record, counsel.
Jack Emmer (04:02:47):
Question has been clarified to reflect only the small portion of the larger statement to whatever extent the witness is able to answer to his recollection of that portion of the statement and any preparation that occurred to make that statement.
Speaker 36 (04:03:00):
So in other words, what you have just articulated that the question's been clarified by Ms. Mace or by you, that what is intended is to actually only be speaking to the selected piece out of the entire statement that was released by the President's office. Is that what you're clarifying?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:03:16):
That's what I'm focused on, yes.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:03:18):
Okay, so if you read this, you really want to know is if I was at a dinner-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:03:29):
No, I don't. My question was on that statement.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:03:31):
... that Ron Perlman gave?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:03:32):
No, sir. No, sir, I'm not asking about that dinner. I'm asking about the statement at the beginning of the article. I would like to ask another question. Your statement in 2019 about only meeting with Jeffrey Epstein on two occasions briefly.
Speaker 35 (04:03:44):
That is not a direct... I'm going to object to that characterization.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:03:48):
I believe-
Speaker 35 (04:03:48):
That is not what the statement says.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:03:50):
Okay, so the third paragraph down-
Speaker 35 (04:03:51):
You're reading The Daily Beast article.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:03:53):
[inaudible 04:03:53] by the way. And on the third paragraph down, it says, "In his Monday statement, Clinton said he had only, 'One meeting with Epstein in his Harlem office in 2002,' and around the same time, made one brief visit to Epstein's New Yorker apartment with a staff member and his security detail." Those are the two meetings that were referenced.
Speaker 35 (04:04:08):
That is in addition to this
Speaker 36 (04:04:10):
The Daily Beast, "Bill Clinton failed to mention his intimate dinner, 1995 dinner with Epstein." That's by Pilar Melendez on the 11th of July, 2019.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:04:20):
All right. Mr. President, your statement saying you only met with Epstein briefly twice, was that part of an effort to cover up your close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, correct?
Speaker 35 (04:04:29):
Object to the form of the question, misstates the record.
Speaker 36 (04:04:33):
She's asking if you were trying to mislead the public.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:04:36):
No.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:04:39):
Okay, how many times did Ghislaine Maxwell visit your home in Chappaqua?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:04:42):
I have no idea.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:04:44):
Who invited her?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:04:46):
Well, I don't know. I don't know how, she may have been-
Speaker 35 (04:04:50):
Mr. President, that's it.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:04:53):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:04:53):
Hillary had political events there.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:04:55):
Okay, so to your knowledge, was she at your home in Chappaqua likely because your wife had her over for Senate events? That's what you testified earlier today, correct?
Speaker 36 (04:05:07):
That's not what he testified, but please ask the question as to what he would actually... Thank you, I appreciate that.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:05:12):
I do not know, but if you are implying the reverse, I will volunteer something. She was never at my house in Chappaqua for any personal reasons.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:05:24):
I didn't say anything for anything personalized.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:05:25):
No, you didn't, but you had a gray tone in your voice, it was-
Speaker 35 (04:05:28):
Mr. President, let's just-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:05:30):
Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:05:31):
It is a compliment.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:05:32):
Thank you. And I did not go to Yale Law School or any law school, for that matter. Yesterday your wife testified that Ghislaine Maxwell was never at her home. And I believe you stated earlier today you thought if she was over there, it would be for Senate events. So was your wife falsely testifying yesterday-
Speaker 35 (04:05:49):
Objection, mischaracterizes.
Speaker 36 (04:05:52):
[inaudible 04:05:52] his wife's testimony yesterday. And so unless you all are going to provide the transcript or you're going to actually provide that information, he's not in a position where we could address that.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:05:58):
I believe all I said was that I didn't know that she had done.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:06:04):
You postured that maybe it was for her Senate. I'm going to have one last question, Mr. Chairman, and then you'll take over. I believe you stated today, and I know it's been a number of years, on or around 2008, you, or before that, ended any communication with Jeffrey Epstein, correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:06:21):
That's correct.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:06:21):
Around the time he got arrested or right beforehand. And he was arrested for child sexual prostitution or hiring girls for sex or one girl for sex, correct? Roughly, child sexual exploitation. If you were aware in 2008 that Jeffrey Epstein was having sex with kids and you knew of his close association with Ghislaine Maxwell, why would you still associate with Ghislaine Maxwell, who you dubbed essentially like your Doug Band? She was the body man to Epstein, Doug Band was the body man to you. And why would you allow Ghislaine Maxwell to associate with your daughter up until, I don't know, 2004, 2015? You knew he was a bad guy, why would you allow your daughter to-
Speaker 36 (04:07:00):
Excuse me, what's the period in which you're saying he would've known that Jeffrey Epstein was a bad guy?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:07:03):
After 2008. So up until, Ghislaine Maxwell was involved with CGI until what, 2015?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:07:08):
Yes.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:07:09):
And we confirmed today that he had a dinner with Ghislaine Maxwell in LA in 2014. So he's still hanging out with a close associate, the closest associate to convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:07:19):
But-
Speaker 35 (04:07:21):
Excuse me.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:07:21):
I guess my question is why?
Speaker 35 (04:07:22):
Yes, but question, excuse me. Is the question why Ghislaine Maxwell came to the wedding? Is that the question?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:07:29):
No, I didn't even bring up the wedding.
Speaker 35 (04:07:30):
Okay, sorry.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:07:32):
Why are you obfuscating? Why are you putting words in my mouth? You're smarter than that.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:07:35):
No, no.
Speaker 35 (04:07:36):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:07:40):
Let me finish. I think, first of all, when the wedding occurred, she was with Ted Waitt and she was for several more years. We did not know when Epstein was arrested, that she was still involved with him. I think that clears a lot of this up, we didn't know. And I don't want all of you to get... We're all getting in a lather here. There's a logical explanation, we didn't know. And I'm sorry for what she did and what she allowed her life to become and now she's living with it.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:08:32):
And I have one final short question, I promise I'm done. I was severely and heavily duped by an individual in my life about two and a half years ago. It's very publicly well known. You graduated from Georgetown and Yale, correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:08:43):
Yeah.
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:08:44):
How do you think Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein duped so many powerful and smart people, fully connected, powerful people all around the world?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:08:56):
I really don't know, but I don't know. I've thought about it a lot.
Speaker 35 (04:09:03):
Mr. President, that's it.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:09:04):
And if you can figure it out, I'd like to know, but-
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (04:09:07):
Thank you, Mr. President. And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Speaker 36 (04:09:17):
Point of privilege?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:09:18):
I would like to say, since you made a great deal out of all this Ivy League stuff, I am also the last President ever to live in a place without indoor plumbing.
Speaker 36 (04:09:32):
There's a full statement which we'll be happy to provide for the record, that it might be that Representative Mace is unaware of, but the full statement says, "President Clinton knows nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to, Florida, some years ago, or those with which he's recently been charged in 2002. In 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Jeffrey Epstein's airplane, one to Europe, one to Asia, two to Africa, which included stops in connection with the work of The Clinton Foundation, staff and supporters. Secret Service detail traveled with him on his trips. He had one meeting with Epstein in his Harlem office, 2002, around the same time he made a brief visit to New York." That was the full statement. Ms. Mace was selecting portions out of the statement or relying on an article which only shows certain portions of the full statement.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:10:19):
Let's go.
Jack Emmer (04:10:20):
Ms. Luna from Florida.
Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (04:10:22):
Mr. President, I just wanted to do a couple of follow-ups. Regarding your personal conversations with Mr. Epstein, you said that he wanted to discuss economic and political questions. Was there ever a particular region of the world or topics that he wanted to reoccur and address?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:10:44):
I do remember that he was interested in the two places that I was setting up the AIDS work, in Asia and Africa. And Asia, he wanted to know if I thought it was going to be the Asian century and the thing would be sustainable. And in that, he wanted to know whether, I believed that you could have [inaudible 04:11:13] prosperity there, whether they could achieve something that they'd never achieved before.
Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (04:11:17):
It seems that Mr. Epstein also had asked a similar question about America's prosperity and economic policy. Did you feel that when he was asking questions, particularly maybe pertaining to the regulation of our stock market and/or derivative trading, did he, on a number of occasions, come back to that and maybe pick your brain about policy or future policy here in the United States?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:11:46):
No more than any other big issue. I mean, everybody lives in New York with money and he made his money advising Les Wexner, so he had to be interested in markets.
Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (04:12:02):
And then I know that Ghislaine was a little bit more probably chatty with you. Did she ever share a similar interest to Mr. Epstein on economics or political topics of discussion? Were there any reoccurring topics that you felt that she was wanting to focus on?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:12:16):
Not that I noticed.
Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (04:12:18):
All right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.
Jack Emmer (04:12:20):
Thank you. Mr. President, we've covered a lot of topics today and I'm going to walk through some topics we've already covered, just to ask some questions for clarification.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:12:38):
Okay.
Jack Emmer (04:12:40):
First, during your relationship or the time that you knew Mr. Epstein, what did you understand his job to be?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:12:54):
I'm not sure I knew. It was never clear to me, but he could have been living on investing the profits he'd already made. I knew he was a finance guy.
Jack Emmer (04:13:09):
And you just testified to Les Wexner being one of his clients. Did he ever make any other representations about who his clients were?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:13:21):
No, but I never asked either.
Jack Emmer (04:13:26):
During the time that you knew him, did Epstein ever provide you with financial advice?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:13:32):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:13:33):
Did he ever provide you with tax advice?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:13:35):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:13:39):
Did you ever personally receive money from Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:13:42):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:13:44):
Did Mr. Epstein ever loan you money in your personal capacity?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:13:48):
Not to my knowledge.
Jack Emmer (04:13:49):
So to be clear, did you ever exchange money with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:13:55):
Not that I remember. I don't believe I did.
Jack Emmer (04:14:03):
And throughout today's questioning, we've talked about the various properties that Mr. Epstein owned. You testified to have visited the Manhattan townhouse, is that right?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:14:16):
Yes, I did go there once.
Jack Emmer (04:14:18):
And just for clarification, it's been reported that what we've seen from the files from the DOJ, Mr. Epstein decorated his home with creepy and disturbing artwork. Did you notice anything unusual as far as his decor at his presence?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:14:36):
Keep in mind, I was only on the first floor, ground floor. I did not see anything like that there in any of the rooms that I saw.
Jack Emmer (04:14:50):
It's been reported that Mr. Epstein had cameras on his premises. Did you notice anything, any cameras at the Manhattan townhouse?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:01):
I didn't, but that may have been the whole point.
Jack Emmer (04:15:11):
Mr. Epstein apparently rented a property in Boston at one point. Did you ever visit that property?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:17):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:15:19):
Did you ever visit Mr. Epstein's apartment in Paris?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:23):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:15:24):
Did Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell ever invite you to his property in Paris?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:29):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:15:36):
Did you ever visit Mr. Epstein's home in Palm Beach?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:39):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:15:40):
Were you ever invited by Epstein or Maxwell to visit the Palm Beach property?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:45):
I don't think so.
Jack Emmer (04:15:46):
Did you ever visit Ghislaine Maxwell's New York townhouse?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:15:52):
No, I don't even know that I knew she had a townhouse. I knew about that, the only thing that he ever said anything to me about, Jeffrey, was the New Mexico Ranch, and I never went there.
Jack Emmer (04:16:16):
Did he invite you to the New Mexico Ranch?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:16:20):
Sort of. I mean, he was a little, you know. But I didn't go. By then, I didn't go.
Jack Emmer (04:16:34):
Was there a reason?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:16:36):
I don't remember, but I think it was as we got closer to the end that he said something about it.
Jack Emmer (04:16:44):
Mr. President, in 2005, police in Palm Beach, Florida began investigating Epstein. In July 2006, Epstein was arrested for the first time for soliciting prostitution for minors. For the record, prior to Mr. Epstein's arrest, were you aware of any investigation into Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:17:03):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:17:05):
On October 20th of 2005, police executed a search warrant for Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach Florida home. Palm Beach Detective Joseph Recarey spoke out about his belief that Epstein was tipped off about the raid since multiple computers expected to be at the house were missing when the search warrant was executed. To your knowledge, was Mr. Epstein tipped off about the October 20th search warrant in Palm Beach?
Speaker 36 (04:17:36):
He's asking to your knowledge.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:17:36):
I don't know, I don't know. It's the first I've heard of it.
Speaker 36 (04:17:49):
They're only asking for your knowledge, Mr. President.
Jack Emmer (04:18:03):
Mr. President, did you ever make any kind of attempt to influence the media's coverage of Jeffrey Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:18:10):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:18:11):
At this time, I'd like to introduce what we've marked as Majority Exhibit 23. And this is Bates number EFTA02792895.
Speaker 36 (04:18:30):
One page.
Speaker 39 (04:18:33):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 36 (04:18:34):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:18:37):
I don't even know who that is.
Jack Emmer (04:18:47):
And this is email from Virginia Giuffre, an Epstein victim, that alleged that you walked into Vanity Fair and threatened them not to write sex trafficking articles about your good friend, Jeffrey Epstein. Mr. President, is this true?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:19:05):
No. No. Not no, hell no. Not close no.
Jack Emmer (04:19:19):
Why do you think Ms. Giuffre would make these claims?
Speaker 36 (04:19:21):
Are you asking him to have an opinion about Ms. Giuffre's... Point of mind. Can we not do that? Ask him about the facts that he knows, as opposed to asking about the facts in other peoples' minds.
Jack Emmer (04:19:33):
Mr. President, have you ever asked any other publication to shut down a story related to Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:19:40):
No.
Speaker 35 (04:19:43):
And by any other publication, counsel, he's answered the question about Vanity Fair, correct?
Jack Emmer (04:19:48):
Yes.
Speaker 35 (04:19:48):
Thank you.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:19:50):
I absolutely did not.
Speaker 35 (04:19:52):
Okay.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:19:52):
No.
Speaker 35 (04:19:52):
That was hell no.
Jack Emmer (04:20:01):
Mr. President, did you ever advocate for or suggest leniency in Epstein's case to any government officials, including those in the Department of Justice or Florida State Attorney's Office?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:20:12):
No.
Jack Emmer (04:20:15):
On June 30th of 2008, Epstein pleaded guilty in Palm Beach County, Florida State Court to two felony charges, one count of solicitation of prostitution and one count of procurement of a person under 18 for prostitution. He was subsequently sentenced to 18 months in Florida County Jail and began serving his sentence on June 30th of 2008. To be clear, you have not had any direct contact with Epstein after his arrest in 2006, is that right?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:20:46):
That's correct.
Speaker 36 (04:20:48):
After his arrest or after the publication of when he went to jail in 2008? Can you just clarify the dates there?
Jack Emmer (04:20:54):
I will ask another question. To be clear, you have not had any direct contact with Epstein after his arrest and when he was incarcerated in 2008?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:21:04):
Yes, to the best of my memory, that's correct.
Jack Emmer (04:21:09):
Are you aware of any effort by Epstein to contact you while he was incarcerated in Florida?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:21:14):
I'm not.
Jack Emmer (04:21:17):
Mr. President, who is Arnold Paul Prosperi?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:21:22):
I think that he's a son of a guy I went to Georgetown with, named Paul Prosperi. I think that's right. And I saw in all these things that my staff gave me that he was mentioned, but I don't think anybody said anything to me. I have no memory of that.
Jack Emmer (04:21:52):
So, is it your testimony today that he... And actually, let me back up here. According to jail logs, Mr. Prosperi visited Epstein at least 20 times while Epstein was incarcerated in Palm Beach County Jail between 2008 and 2009. Based on what you just said, is it your testimony that you believe that to be the son of the man you went to college with?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:22:21):
It could be, but he didn't talk to me.
Speaker 37 (04:22:36):
Thank you, Mr. President. Last week, Lex Wexner testified that Jeffrey Epstein often name-dropped powerful people to give himself an air of credibility. Did he ever do that to you, brag about people he knew in high places, kings, princes?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:22:55):
Yeah, he did a little bit.
Speaker 37 (04:23:03):
Going back to what was mentioned earlier about the search warrant on October 20th in Palm Beach for Jeffrey Epstein, Mrs. Clinton testified yesterday, I think she mentioned that it appears he got a sweetheart plea deal, and I don't think anyone on this committee would disagree with that, when Alex Acosta was the US attorney down there. And we've already deposed Mr. Acosta and we've got the transcripts and everything. There's a lot of speculation as had been mentioned, that he may have been tipped off prior to the search warrant, that Epstein may have been tipped off. Are you aware whether or not Sandy Berger may have tipped off Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 36 (04:23:49):
The President just testified that he was unaware that anybody had been tipped off. So are you asking him to-
William Jefferson Clinton (04:23:55):
This explains why I was asked yesterday about him, but no, I know nothing about that, and I wouldn't.
Speaker 37 (04:24:03):
And Mr. Epstein was indicted by a grand jury on July 19th, 2006. According to an IRS form 990 filed by the COUQ Foundation, a known Epstein entity, Mr. Epstein donated $25,000 to the William J. Clinton Foundation one day prior to Mr. Epstein's indictment. Are you aware of this donation?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:24:31):
I know that they told me that the records showed that he'd given $25,000.
Speaker 36 (04:24:37):
When did you become aware of that, Mr. President? Were you aware of that then or in preparation?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:24:40):
No, no now. I mean, when I was preparing for this.
Speaker 37 (04:24:43):
Yes, sir. Did you solicit that donation from Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:24:48):
Not personally, I didn't know.
Speaker 37 (04:24:49):
Did someone else solicit it?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:24:51):
I have no idea.
Speaker 37 (04:24:54):
Do you know why Mr. Epstein made that donation?
Speaker 36 (04:24:57):
He's asking you to speculate about what Mr. Epstein would be thinking.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:25:00):
We're trying to raise a fair amount of money every year to pay the bills.
Speaker 37 (04:25:04):
It seems to me that his investigators were narrowing in on Mr. Epstein, he may have been trying to earn some goodwill with you. What do you think about that?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:25:15):
It wouldn't work.
Speaker 37 (04:25:16):
Right. Did it ever seem to you that Jeffrey Epstein was trying to suck up to you or get on your good side in order to further his schemes?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:25:25):
No, I didn't think about it that way. I thought he wanted to do what he said, but he was very idiosyncratic.
Speaker 37 (04:25:33):
Right. After his arrest in 2006, did you have any further contact with Mr. Epstein?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:25:40):
I don't believe I did, no.
Speaker 37 (04:25:42):
Did anyone affiliated with Epstein, including Ms. Maxwell, contact you on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein to discuss his arrest and the allegations against him?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:25:52):
No.
Speaker 37 (04:25:54):
Did they ever ask, either Jeffrey Epstein or Ms. Maxwell, ever ask you for their assistance once Epstein was in trouble?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:26:05):
No.
Speaker 37 (04:26:08):
Or once Ms. Maxwell was in trouble?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:26:11):
No.
Speaker 37 (04:26:13):
Did Jeffrey Epstein ever attempt to contact you while he was incarcerated in Florida?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:26:19):
No.
Speaker 37 (04:26:19):
He didn't attempt ever to contact you?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:26:21):
Not as far as I know, no.
Speaker 37 (04:26:24):
Yesterday, during the deposition of Secretary Clinton, she suggested that we follow the money with Epstein, because there's a big question, how did he accumulate so much wealth? And I think you had testified earlier, and if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me, that you didn't really know how he made his money. I mean, he had a big plane and-
William Jefferson Clinton (04:26:48):
I knew that he had made an extraordinary amount of money from Les Wexner, who was quite wealthy. I had no idea whether he had made enough to support the lifestyle that I saw.
Speaker 37 (04:27:03):
And I assume you're aware Mr. Wexner testified under oath, that he acted like he really didn't know Jeffrey Epstein very well, which is kind of hard to believe because he paid him a lot of money and-
William Jefferson Clinton (04:27:16):
Yeah, he made him.
Speaker 37 (04:27:17):
Yeah.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:27:18):
But you never know.
Speaker 37 (04:27:20):
Yeah. Well, one of the things when we concluded the deposition yesterday, we asked Secretary Clinton for her advice moving forward in the investigation. And with respect to a statement she said yesterday and was something that we've done on the committee, the majority has done on the committee, in the past, we've followed the money, we've subpoenaed bank records, we've subpoenaed suspicious activity reports from Treasury. Those were some of the things Ms. Clinton suggested. And in order to do that, obviously we have to subpoena banks, specific banks for specific accounts. Do you ever recall in the conversations you had with Mr. Epstein, any particular bank that he was affiliated with or any particular big banks that maybe he had deals going?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:28:11):
No, he never asked me about that.
Speaker 37 (04:28:14):
Okay.
Jack Emmer (04:28:19):
And with that, we can go off the record.
Speaker 38 (04:28:32):
We can go back on the record. Mr. President, I just wanted to clarify one thing from the previous round. Our understanding of your testimony today is that with respect to the dinner with Ms. Maxwell in Los Angeles, you were not actually sure whether or not that dinner occurred.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:28:51):
That's correct.
Speaker 38 (04:28:53):
Is that correct? Is that correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:28:54):
That is correct.
Speaker 38 (04:28:54):
Thank you. As we start to close, is there anything you would like to add or clarify about what you've said here today?
Speaker 36 (04:29:05):
You're good.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:29:05):
What?
Speaker 36 (04:29:05):
You're good.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:29:06):
I think we're fine. I'm struggling because it's hard to know exactly what I knew, when I knew it, given what I've learned since. It's become kind of a compelling challenge, but I've tried to tell you what I knew then. And when you ask what I think now, I think you have, all of you, Mr. Chairman, you've had a chronologically challenging thing. You've got all the stuff that happened with Jeffrey Epstein, some of it as regards to President Trump, going back to the late '90s, and that's a long time ago. And then what we learned later, it's been difficult. But I have enjoyed it, you've been very respectful to me and given me a chance to talk to you.
Speaker 38 (04:30:10):
Well, we thank you for your time.
William Jefferson Clinton (04:30:11):
And I wish you well. I still will say, if you can think of some things to do that will reduce the incidents of trafficking in America, and it should be possible for us to virtually eliminate underage abuse, it should be. We just got to figure out what kind of technology we need and what kind of policies. Thank you.
Speaker 38 (04:30:48):
And the answers that you've provided today are to the best of your recollection. Is that correct?
William Jefferson Clinton (04:30:53):
Yeah, the answers I provided today are what I believe at the time and what I think was in my heart, including about previous testimony.
Speaker 38 (04:31:07):
Great, thank you. Unless there's anything else you would like to share, we can go off the record.
