Nancy Cordes (00:00):
So the Canadian electricity tariffs on the US are off.
Howard Lutnick (00:05):
Off.
Nancy Cordes (00:07):
How did that happen?
Howard Lutnick (00:08):
Well, the President woke up this morning and he saw it and he just jumped right on it. He sent out a couple of tweets this morning and Truths that made it crystal clear that you can't have a Canadian premier sort of attacking, effectively tacking on a 25% tax on Americans energy, a couple of states. And he made it crystal clear. This is coming off today. He called me first thing this morning and said, "Howard, this had better come off," and I spoke to Doug Ford, the premier, and I'm happy to tell you it is off.
Nancy Cordes (00:46):
So Americans will not be paying more for electricity if they live in Michigan, New York and Minnesota?
Howard Lutnick (00:52):
Gone.
Nancy Cordes (00:54):
Wasn't the premier just reacting to tariffs that the US imposed on Canada?
Howard Lutnick (01:00):
But remember, the tariffs were about fentanyl deaths in America. I mean, the president is not going to allow Americans… About 75,000 autopsy deaths in America, and imagine how many are not autopsied. God forbid you lose your child, what makes you think you're definitely going to autopsy them to determine why they died? So the President is on it. He said it's got to end. And I love the fact that the Canadians say, "Oh, it's not us." 75% of terrorists that we've captured have come through Canada, and fentanyl, just because they've only captured 43 pounds. Come on. We know way more than that is coming.
Nancy Cordes (01:37):
So just so I understand, is the President still going to go through with his new threat to bump tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum up to 50% in the morning?
Howard Lutnick (01:50):
No. No, that's off too. So we're at 25% steel and aluminum because that's where we were. So I say there's three buckets to think about. There's things that are necessary for America and its safety, that would be steel and aluminum. We've got to have a steel and aluminum industry here in America to protect us for national security. You can't be at a war and not make steel. You can't have some other country supply your steel if God forbid you need it for a war. Autos. We need to have auto manufacturing here in America. It's very important to us. Pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, these are vital things for America and he is focused on them. Then that's number one.
(02:32)
Then we have reciprocal tariffs. That's number two, which says let's create fairness in the world. Since 1945, we have been exporting the power of our economy to everyone in the world. They have high tariffs and we have low tariffs and maybe a little fairness would seem reasonable, so that starts April 2nd. We're going to start having reciprocal tariffs. Fairness. And then we're going to do bilateral trading deals with each of the countries who want to work with us, and let's see if we can't make it better. Unleash our farmers, unleash our ranchers. You won't believe the nonsense that I've had to read. India, the Prime Minister comes and visits, brags about is 1.4 billion people. Won't let us sell a bushel of corn and think of the stuff they sell here. You got to be kidding.
Nancy Cordes (03:25):
But when it comes to the Canadian situation, what is really being accomplished with all of these one or two day tariffs that end up getting yanked?
Howard Lutnick (03:35):
Well, when you're negotiating with someone and they're not paying attention and they're disagreeing, the President, who's the best dealmaker ever to sit in that chair, is going to say, "Here's my response," and then all of a sudden, shockingly their respond. So that's what he has to do. He has to do what he thinks is important to get the right deal for America. You've got the right person sitting in that chair making the right moves, and each and every move he's made has resulted in what? The reasonable outcome that you would expect. Look, people are used to this negotiating nonsense about governments say a lot, do nothing. With Donald Trump, you do nothing, you get punched.
Nancy Cordes (04:18):
Is it worth it even if it rattles the markets day after day?
Howard Lutnick (04:22):
The markets are going to learn let the deal maker make his deals. Let the best negotiator and the best person who cares about America, let him make the deals, and if he thinks he's got to threaten someone today, like Colombia… Remember he threatened Colombia that wouldn't take people in? He just needs to say, "Listen, we're America. Stop this nonsense," and within a short period of time, I think people will realize that doesn't pay to do it this way. Let's just do it the grown-up way. When the biggest economy in the world says, "I don't like the way you're treating us," how about a little respect? How about a little dignity? How about the way Mexico is dealing with it? They're dealing with it elegantly and with a proper set of discussions, not responding, saying, "Let's work it out together."
Nancy Cordes (05:08):
But you ran a large financial company. You know how difficult it is for businesses to plan for the long-term, even the short-term when policies out of Washington are changing every day.
Howard Lutnick (05:21):
When I ran my business, when my biggest client in the world said something to me, you know what I said? Yes. I said yes right away. Think about it. The biggest trading partner in the whole world that is vital to Canada's existence says, "I'm unhappy," and they respond negatively, you know why? Because for 20 years, 30 years, they've gotten away with it. It's like Ukraine. They came in. You imagine coming into this country, sitting in the Oval Office, having received $300 billion in aid from US and military and NATO and all the rest, and the first words out of your mouth aren't thank you. Just say thank you. God knows, just say thank you. When the biggest client, the biggest trading partner, the most important counterparty you have, who really, really matters to you, the first thing you do is showing immeasurable respect. Say, "Thank you. I want to work it out with you. I want you to be happy."
(06:20)
And that's what Donald Trump is going to make everybody realize. We feed the world. Please be kind to us. Don't open your border. Imagine Mexico allows caravans down their highways to break into America and they then say, "You are really important to us." It seems very disrespectful. How about we don't have to build a wall, you build the wall? You want to trade with us, you want all this economic power to come to you, how about, Mexico, you build the wall. So when the first time in his first term he said Mexico would pay for the wall, you know who's guarding the wall right now? 11,000 Mexican troops are guarding the wall because they care about America and they care about America when Donald Trump's in the White House.
Nancy Cordes (07:06):
You talk about respect, but here's what the President said just this morning about our closest trading partner. He said that he's going to impose tariffs that will permanently shut down the Canadian car industry. Why is it in America's interest to destroy one of Canada's biggest industries?
Howard Lutnick (07:29):
Okay, so let's go back a little. Number one, the Ontario Premier threatened energy against America. You can't threaten-
Nancy Cordes (07:36):
But he was responding to what you did.
Howard Lutnick (07:38):
No, no. He wasn't, and he knows he wasn't, and he knows he made a mistake and he withdrew it. The president gave USMCA the agreement with USMCA. He said, "I'll let that remain tariff-free, but anybody who's not in USMCA is going to pay a tariff until fentanyl deaths end in America." Try not to forget, March is about fentanyl deaths in America. We've got to end it. And then let's talk about cars just for a minute. Once upon a time, cars were made in Detroit and in Ohio, Michigan and Ohio, and NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement. Another way to say NAFTA is Destroy Michigan and Ohio Agreement. What they did is they took these car companies and they moved them to Mexico and Canada. Why? Canada, we just want to have unions. Mexico, cheaper labor. And how about the auto workers who lived in Ohio and Michigan? Ruined their lives. Ruined their lives.
(08:38)
You know what the worst statistic that I know is? The workforce of the United States of America. Two-thirds is high school educated, one third is college-educated. The life expectancy of my high school educated workforce is seven years lower. Makes me want to cry. Why? Why is it seven years lower? It's not the air we breathe, it's not the food, it's not the medicine. It's despair. If I move your factory where your grandfather worked and your father worked and you planned to work, and I move that factory to Canada, your life is ruined. Drugs, alcohol and suicide, and then fentanyl comes in and finishes the job. And Donald Trump is going to end it. He's going to rebuild those communities. He's going to rebuild it. And you know the statistic you're going to see that's going to make the most difference? The average life expectancy of our workforce is going to be equal, and that is going to be because they're going to have a better life under Donald Trump.
Nancy Cordes (09:41):
How are you going to convince manufacturers to bring factories back to the US if you don't show them consistency, that you have a tariff plan and it's not going to change tomorrow or the next day, but it's a well-thought-out plan and it's going to remain in place?
Howard Lutnick (09:59):
Donald Trump said from the beginning, reciprocal tariffs, how you treat us is how we will treat you. What people don't understand-
Nancy Cordes (10:07):
But then he said, it's all open for negotiation and if somebody brings him a deal, he might pull it off.
Howard Lutnick (10:11):
No, no, no. Reciprocal tariffs are the baseline and the countries of the world like Europe has a 20% VAT. 20%. So we pay 20%. You know how many cars, American cars, we sell in Europe or in Korea or Japan? Try buying a Chevrolet in Germany. We all have Mercedes and BMW and Volkswagen. Oh, those are everywhere, but American car over there? Nope. They block us on non-tariff trade barriers, subsidies. They just keep us out and Donald Trump is going to unleash that. So what's going to happen is you don't want to pay that tariff? Come on, build it here. You are seeing TSMC, a hundred billion, Apple, 500 billion, SoftBank, 200 billion, OpenAI, 500 billion. These companies are going to build in America, build the factories in America, and what we are going to create is tradecraft.
(11:08)
We're going to recreate electricians, but not the electrician who fixes our house. HVAC, but not in our house. Do high-tech factories, electricians, plumbers. But why? Because these computer factories, they cool themselves with water. These are the high-tech jobs, 200, $300,000 a year. The Commerce Department and the Education Department are going to come out with 5 million jobs where if you're going to go into that program and get trained, you get a guaranteed job with one of the high-tech companies in America and they guarantee you a job starting at around 125 to 150,000, and up you go through your career. America is going to be an incredible manufacturer of high-tech. It's coming home. It's coming home under Donald Trump.
Nancy Cordes (11:56):
That sounds amazing. The stock market is down 7%. The NASDAQ is down 14%. If investors thought that you had a clear well-thought-out plan to bring manufacturing back to the US, wouldn't the stock market be going up instead of down?
Howard Lutnick (12:12):
I love the fact that the Biden administration leaves us a pile of just horrible numbers. Horrible numbers.
Nancy Cordes (12:20):
Your numbers are worse than theirs.
Howard Lutnick (12:21):
When do our numbers begin? With all due respect, when are we having this conversation, in March? Do you think it's our numbers? Do you think our tariffs have anything to do with anything? This is nonsense.
Nancy Cordes (12:32):
A sharp decline in consumer confidence, in the stock market. Inflation is ticking back up.
Howard Lutnick (12:38):
Donald Trump is going to balance the budget of the United States of America. Interest rates are going to drop 150 basis points during his term. Oil and our gas prices are going to come smashing down, egg prices come smashing down. As these things happen, you are going to see the greatest resurgence in the United States of America you have ever seen. I'm sorry that Biden left us horrible numbers. I'm sorry. Donald Trump can only fix them when he's in office. You could try to pin them with before he was in office. I get it. It's nonsense. Let Donald Trump's policies reign and you will see at the end of the year the greatest set of resurgence and growth and building in the United States of America.
(13:18)
Because remember, each trillion dollars of investment in America… So Apple is 500 billion over the next four years. Each trillion is 1% of GDP. Each trillion of Donald Trump's investment that he's bringing back with these tariffs is 1% of GDP, and when he balances the budget of the United States of America… I know lots of people say, "Oh, Lutnick is very energetic." Elon Musk is going to cut a trillion of waste, fraud and abuse, and we are going to earn a trillion dollars of revenue and we are going to balance the budget for Donald Trump, and this country is never going to be the same. It is going to be great again.
Nancy Cordes (13:57):
You say there will not be a recession. President Trump says he can't rule it out. Who should the American people believe?
Howard Lutnick (14:04):
I am talking about the Donald Trump policies. He is living in the Biden numbers that he sees today. So if you ask him today, what does he think? He said, "Look, I was left with terrible numbers. What do you want from me? I can't say what Biden gave me, but Howard Lutnick can tell you what the policies of Donald Trump are going to deliver for the American people," and I can promise you the policies that Donald Trump is bringing in are going to create the greatest set of growth and prosperity that America has ever seen in modern times.
(14:39)
I can't be more excited about it. I can't be more thrilled to be part of his administration. This is so smart, so thoughtful. And if you think about it a little and you stop worrying about, as you said to me earlier today, doesn't it seem terrible that cars are in Canada? How about the question of why are American cars built in Canada? Why aren't they built in Detroit? Why aren't they built in Ohio? What did we do to those families? And the answer is failed leadership, and Donald Trump is going to fix them.
Nancy Cordes (15:13):
Even cars that are built in Detroit use parts that are made in Canada, right? Aren't they a vital part of our supply chain?
Howard Lutnick (15:20):
We made them a vital part of our supply chain by chasing them out of America. Once upon a time, America… Think about this. This is a shocker. America made American cars in America and then NAFTA created, "Oh, it's cheaper labor to screw all the American workers and move it to Mexico where it's cheap labor, and why don't we move to Canada and we can get out of our unions? So let's break the unions and let's move to Mexico. Rah, rah, car company. Screw American worker." How about Donald Trump, a Republican, says, "I've had enough." I think under Donald Trump union labor is going to double because those factories are going to come back and those workers are going to get great jobs and we are going to have a different America, one that produces and manufactures. "And if I need to use tariffs," this is the President talking, "If I need to use tariffs to bring that manufacturing home, we're going to do it."
Nancy Cordes (16:20):
Will these policies be worth it if they lead to a recession, even a short-term recession?
Howard Lutnick (16:27):
These policies are the most important thing America has ever had.
Nancy Cordes (16:31):
So it is worth it?
Howard Lutnick (16:33):
It is worth it. The only reason there could possibly be a recession is because of the Biden nonsense that we had to live with. These policies produce revenues, they produce growth, they produce factories being built here. You're seeing the announcements. I stopped by an Eli Lilly, everybody calls me, asks me to cut their red tape. I'm like, "God, if I spent all the time cutting red tape, I'd never actually have a job." But Eli Lilly calls me and says, "Come to my opening. We're announcing 40 billion new pharmaceutical plant." I mean, it's company after company manufacturing. The auto company said, "We'll move it back. It'll take us six months to a year. We're going to move back to America." These are American jobs, American manufacturing, and anybody who bets against Donald Trump is a fool.
Nancy Cordes (17:21):
Just recently, I believe it was Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, these banks are adjusting their forecast for the risk of recession up and they're saying it's not because of Biden's policies, they're saying it's because of the possibility of an aggressive trade war.
Howard Lutnick (17:41):
So here's what happens when you say we're going to have a tariff on April 2nd, everybody tries to hustle in before the tariff. You could see miles of cars coming into the country to try to beat the tariff in from Japan, from Korea and from Germany. That creates a distorted GDP. It doesn't change a darn thing about America, not a darn thing about America. Americans are going to see American cars are going to be cheaper than foreign cars, and the people who make those American cars are going to be American and these things are great for America.
(18:25)
For once, I would like for people to talk to me and to our President about why it's great to be an American instead of… I don't care about German car companies making cars in Germany. Good for them. And Korea, good for them. And Japan, good for them. Their prime ministers can take care of them. Thank God we have finally a president who takes care of us. He's not the president of the world. He's the President of the United States of America, and he cares about American workers and that's who he's here to protect, and all this other nonsense has got to go because the fact is the stock market is going to be much, much higher. Much, much higher. You know what? If they're worried about this change, they're foolishly betting against Donald Trump, because if I were you, I'd bet for them.
Nancy Cordes (19:22):
But it sounds like you're saying trust us. And are you worried that at some point Americans are going to feel like there's a bunch of billionaires in Washington who are playing Russian roulette with our retirement?
Howard Lutnick (19:36):
$2 trillion deficits don't bother you at all. How could you ask me while we're running a $2 trillion deficit and not care? You're destroying the people who have run this country before are destroying the future for my children and my children's children. We have a $36 trillion deficit and we used to run deficits of 400 billion. Now 2 trillion, everybody's like, "Waa." Who cares? I tell you who cares. Donald Trump cares. And when we balance the budget, you know what that means? That means our deficits stop interest rates come smashing down. His goal is to have external revenue. The way I think about it, we all are so used to paying taxes. We have Stockholm Syndrome. Don't stop the Internal Revenue Service. God forbid. How about this? The rest of the world leans on our economy, breathes off our economy.
(20:40)
Not only is our economy $29 trillion GDP, but we consume $20 trillion a year. We are the buyer of everybody's stuff. We buy everybody's stuff. So who is more important, the people who sell stuff or the people who buy stuff? So we are the buyer of everybody's commodities, products, goods and services. Everything comes from us. Let them pay a membership fee. We all understand that model. Let them pay. How about we, you and I, and every single person we know pay less? How about no tax on tips? How about no tax on overtime? How about no social security? How about all those things? These are the kind of thoughts that will change America. I know what his goal is. No tax for anybody who makes less than $150,000 a year, that's his goal and that's what I'm working for.
Nancy Cordes (21:39):
So you're saying when it looks chaotic and unpredictable from the outside, that there actually is a master plan when it comes to these tariffs?
Howard Lutnick (21:48):
It is not chaotic, and the only one who thinks it's chaotic is someone who's being silly. He said reciprocal tariffs.
Nancy Cordes (21:55):
Nobody expected him to announce 50% tariffs this morning.
Howard Lutnick (21:59):
He needed to break some guy in Ontario who said he was going to tax American energy 25%. The President of the United States in the White House says, "Oh, no, you won't," and breaks him. Breaks him in what? By a tweet and a Truth and you think that's chaotic. You know what I think that is? I think that is the thank God we have a president who's taking care of us. If you were in one of those states and you thought your energy prices were going to go up 25% and you said, "Where's the President?" And all of a sudden he came down like thunder to make that end, you'd say, "Cool. I'm glad that's the kind of White House," and that's what we've got.
Nancy Cordes (22:43):
The President does seem like he's preparing the nation for some short-term pain. He calls it a disturbance. How much pain should Americans brace for how much will inflation go up and for how long?
Howard Lutnick (22:58):
Okay, if you balance the budget, it's not inflation. Tariffs do not create inflation. Printing extra money creates inflation. I tried to describe it. If we all had $1 trillion and that's all the money that was there, okay, and your shoes had a tariff and my shoes didn't, then my shoes would just be cheaper than yours, but that's not inflation. Whereas if I give everybody $2 trillion, both our shoes are more expensive right now, right away. So printing less money is less inflation, okay? Tariffs make American-made goods cheaper. Imagine saying that.
(23:38)
I saw someone complain this morning, a construction company was complaining this morning and said, "Now we have to buy American lumber and hire American people," and he was complaining and I thought, "Now that's humor." Sure, you can find in the world something cheaper, but you might have to hire an American, and you know what? If you have to pay him a little more, that's what President Trump is all about. Pay our people more to live in our economy. You want to leech off our economy, you want to breathe off our economy? Okay, help us build here. Hire Americans, and if you got to pay him a little more. We're Americans, we deserve it.
Nancy Cordes (24:22):
When President Trump was running, he said multiple times he was going to bring down inflation on day one. Was that hyperbole?
Howard Lutnick (24:32):
Driving down energy prices is key. Driving down interest rates is key. Where are interest rates now? Lower. Where are egg prices? Lower. He's going to drive down energy. He needs to drive down interest rates. Those are the key drivers, right? Food, we're going to bring it down. The way we're going to bring down food in the big picture is there are so many countries who block our farmers, our ranchers, and our fishermen. They just block us. If we unblock it and they can produce more volume, they produce it at a lower price.
Nancy Cordes (25:06):
If you're worried about the deficit and the debt, why extend the Trump tax cuts? That's trillions of dollars right there.
Howard Lutnick (25:15):
Taxing Americans. Putting a $4 trillion tax hike on Americans is like… What's the term? The opposite of Donald Trump. He wants to bring down the Internal Revenue Service and those Democrats who say, "Oh, let's raise taxes on all Americans," that's the more taxes from the Internal Revenue Service. Listen to Donald Trump. He said, "I created the external revenue service to have other people pay, not Americans." It's time for Americans to realize that everyone else is living off of us. Let's let them pay some of their fair share. Instead of we all say, "oh, we pay our fair share," how about all the people who are living off us? How about Mercedes? Think of all the cars they sell. How about they pay some? Look at everything you buy. Maybe, just maybe the people who provide that should pay.
(26:09)
Do you ever think about this, every boat, every commercial vehicle you've ever seen, every single one you've ever seen, cruise ship, you ever see the flag hanging off the back? You ever seen an American flag in your life? Never. You know what it's a flag of? Liberia. And you're like, "What?" Because you're paying no tax. So all those ships are paying no tax. It's just a tax scam. Ireland has a $60 billion-surplus. Ireland. Why? Because our companies drop their IP there, their patents and their IP, and they pay Ireland the money. Tax scam. How about we end the tax scams, bring the money back, reduce our taxes? Who's our? All of America. Eliminate the tax on tips, tax on overtime, tax on social security, drive down the tax rate of America.
(27:05)
Sell green cards, call them gold cards. Instead of giving away 400,000 a year. Do you realize if we sold those 400,000 a year for 5 million each, you know that's $2 trillion every time? $2 trillion. We'd have no budget deficit. We could lower taxes on America. These are the thoughts of the guy in the White House. I keep pointing right there because that's where he is, he's right over there. It takes me at least three and a half minutes to get there. It's amazing the opportunity of America, the greatness of America with someone like Donald Trump at the White House.
Nancy Cordes (27:42):
Secretary Lutnick, thank you so much for talking with me. I really appreciate it.
Howard Lutnick (27:45):
Thanks for coming over.
Nancy Cordes (27:46):
Thanks.