Mr. Wicker (01:52):
If the committee would come to order, our eager members of the Fourth Estate are welcome to clear away, thanking them for their presence.
(02:07)
This morning, the committee meets to consider the nomination of retired Lieutenant General Dan Caine for the position of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. General Caine has a tremendous responsibility before him. I believe President Trump has made an excellent choice in selecting him to meet the challenges. So I thank General Caine for his willingness to serve our country, especially in this hour of need.
(02:33)
We live in the most dangerous national security moment since World War II, an axis of aggressors led by the Chinese Communist Party, and Vladimir Putin's Russia means us harm. This axis does not want this century to be an American-led century, or a freedom-led century. Our adversaries have started two wars against Ukraine and Israel, they threatened to open a third front against Taiwan. We must restore peace, and we can do that only through strength.
(03:08)
Since his nomination was announced, some people have written that General Caine is unqualified. They point out that he has not served as a combatant commander, as a service chief or as a vice chairman, roles which are contemplated in 10 U.S.C 152. I would suggest these same people read, or reread the Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986. Those who read that law and then read General Caine's resume will see that the architects of that legislation would conclude that their reforms were successful.
(03:52)
The driving force behind Goldwater-Nichols was to inspire and in some cases require jointness. So let's talk about jointness with regard to Lieutenant General Caine. They believe that when our military services work together, those services are greater than the sum of their parts. General Caine agrees, and his record reflects that.
(04:12)
He began his career as an Air Force fighter pilot in 1992. By the time he was done, General Caine had operated in every domain and he had developed relationships with every service, that would not have been true 40 years ago. General Caine flew and commanded aircraft, but he's also worked for the U.S. Department of Agriculture, having helped in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, in the midst of a bird flu outbreak at the White House, General Caine wrote early Homeland Security strategies. He deployed and commanded repeatedly to Iraq and Syria, serving within various special operations forces units. He ran our most secretive programs for all military services. General Caine worked extensively as the CIA's senior military officer. Again, collaborating with every military service and combatant command.
(05:11)
It's difficult to imagine a better joint and interagency background for a nominee of this position. Our threat environment is complex and General Caine understands how the services can work together to meet today's dangers.
(05:26)
We have much work to do, as this committee knows, we need to grow our defense budget, we need to reform the Pentagon's processes drastically. If confirmed, General Caine would play a significant role in providing military advice to the Secretary of Defense, and the President of the United States on both of those topics.
(05:46)
In particular, the chairman plays a significant role in the requirements process. I hope he will make a priority to modernize this critical aspect. The statutory role of the chairman may be limited, but the position is explicitly the voice of the combatant commanders. That voice matters because the commanders are largely absent from our requirements and budgeting processes.
(06:13)
The chairman can and should also be an advocate for a more agile planning process, one that considers the problems, and I'm going to use two big words here, the problems of simultaneity and protracted warfare. I guess that's three big words, and two big terms. These are technical terms for fairly straightforward facts. First, that our adversaries are likely to act against us in a coordinated fashion, simultaneity. And secondly, that once that war breaks out, it tends to take on a life of its own protracted warfare.
(06:57)
Lastly, a chairman is responsible to deliver a serious, honest chairman's risk assessment to this committee as soon as possible. I look forward to General Caine's thoughts on each of these points. Based on my conversations with the nominee, and based on his actions in uniform, I'm confident that General Caine will give President Trump his best military advice. He will do so without bias, as he's required to do. He would not consider whether the president may like or dislike that advice. That's exactly what a United States president deserves.
(07:36)
I'm convinced that General Caine sees this role as absolutely nonpartisan. We can argue politics up here on this dais, but I expect General Caine to stay out of it, no matter the subject. I thank the nominee for his service and for appearing today, and I turn now to my friend and colleague, Ranking Member Reed for his opening remarks.
Mr. Reed (07:57):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Lieutenant General Caine welcome, and congratulations on your nomination. Also, I would like to extend my appreciation to your family, because I know they've been with you throughout your entire career, and they're with you today. I also want to offer my deepest condolences to the families of the U.S. Army soldiers who tragically lost their lives in Lithuania during a mission last week.
(08:23)
General Caine, you have been nominated to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. We must start by acknowledging the unusual conditions around your nomination. Six weeks ago, President Trump abruptly dismissed General C.Q. Brown, who was not even halfway into his tenure as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Secretary of Defense Hegseth also dismissed several other senior officers, including Admiral Lisa Franchetti, the Chief of Naval Operations, General James Slife, the Air Force Vice Chief of Staff, and all three judge advocate generals for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. To this day, no explanation has been given for the dismissal of these officers.
(09:04)
As such, I remain deeply concerned that they were dismissed for political reasons, which sends a chilling message throughout the ranks.
(09:13)
I would take a moment to salute General C.Q. Brown, who served this nation honorably for more than four decades, and led the joint chiefs with dedication and skill. He and each of the officers who were dismissed had outstanding careers in the military, and represented our nation with great courage, honor, and distinction. We all owe them a debt of gratitude for their service and sacrifice.
(09:36)
General Caine, I trust that you understand the fraught situation within which you have been nominated to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. In this regard, your distinguished record of service is encouraging. As an F-16 pilot with thousands of flight hours and multiple combat deployments, you have served with distinction in the Air Force and the Air National Guard. You have also served in senior leadership roles at the Pentagon, the White House, and overseas, including in the special operations and intelligence communities.
(10:06)
General, if confirmed, you will serve as the principal military advisor to the president, the National Security Council, the Secretary of Defense, and Congress. You will be expected to be an effective strategist, advisor, and manager, and your counsel will be relied upon as we confront the multitude of national security issues before us. Indeed, we face significant challenges.
(10:28)
China clearly remains our primary competitor, as the only nation with both the intent and capability to challenge the interests of the United States and our allies and partners. At the same time, Russia remains a violent destabilizing force, and nations like Iran and North Korea continue to push the boundaries of military brinkmanship.
(10:47)
To succeed in this environment, the U.S. military must better develop its joint capabilities across all domains including space, cyber, and information. Moreover, we must not lose the combined strength of our allies, nor can we abandon the soft power of our diplomatic and humanitarian efforts. To retreat to Fortress America will encourage our adversaries to exert their influence throughout the world.
(11:15)
General Caine, I'm interested to know how you would ensure our military remains the world's premier fighting force. If confirmed, you will be responsible for identifying new joint capabilities, and performing net assessments to ensure each of the services are procuring the right capabilities needed for the Joint Force. The chairman must review capabilities holistically across the total force which can conflict with the priorities of individual services. The committee would be interested to learn how you plan to manage this dynamic.
(11:47)
In addition, the National Defense Strategy, the National Military Strategy, and the annual chairman's risk assessment are vital documents this committee relies upon to perform its oversight functions. As the administration begins its work to review and revise these documents, general Caine, I would like your assessment of the current strategy, and whether you would recommend any changes to these documents.
(12:11)
Finally, the Joint Force is fundamentally about people. As the nation's senior-most military officer, it will be your responsibility to understand the needs of America's service members, and to be their greatest advocate. If confirmed, you will be the most visible military officer in the nation. It will be critical for you to represent the force with total professionalism and trustworthiness.
(12:35)
Frankly, I am concerned about the health of civilian military relations in our country. Over the past several months, the military has been dragged into dangerous political fights, public trust in the military is eroding, and I fear that the military's trust in civilian leadership has been shaken. Civilian control of the military is a sacred duty that must be carried out responsibly and not exploited.
(12:59)
General, I'd like to know how you will work to help improve civil-military relations and demonstrate this ethos yourself every day. Above all else, I expect you to pledge to always provide your best military advice to the president and the Secretary of Defense, even if that advice is not what they want to hear. The safety of our service members and the American people depends upon such candor.
(13:23)
General Caine, if confirmed, you will lead the Joint Force at a momentous time. I thank you, and I look forward to your testimony. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wicker (13:34):
Thank you. Thank you, Senator Reed. General Caine, we will now hear your testimony. You are recognized.
General Caine (13:43):
Well thank you Senator, Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reed, members of this committee. My name is Dan Caine and I'm honored and humbled to sit before you today as the president's nominee to be the 22nd chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
(13:58)
I'd like to start by thanking the president and the secretary for their trust and confidence in me, and if confirmed, allowing me to again serve our great nation. I'd also like to thank General C.Q. Brown and his wife Sharene, and their family for their more than 40 years of selfless service to our nation. I'd like to thank the team that helped prepare me for this hearing today. And finally, I'd like to thank my family and friends who have given me so much. It is my family who has made my service possible, always at their own expense. They have given more than I have, and there are not words to express my thanks to each of them, especially my family in our nation's Midwest.
(14:45)
I sit here before you the, proud son of an Air Force fighter pilot who flew F-4 Phantoms in Vietnam. My mom was a pediatric critical care nurse who worked nights so she could be home when my sister and I got up in the morning, and when we got home in the afternoon. I learned about service from my parents and the other members of my family who served not because it was easy, but because it was the right thing to do. In our family, we serve. When asked, we always say, "Yes."
(15:17)
Senators, I acknowledge that I'm an unconventional nominee. These are unconventional times. It is 9:48 p.m. in Beijing, 6:48 p.m. in Tehran, 4:48 p.m. in Moscow, and 10:48 p.m. in Pyongyang. As we sit here now, our nation faces an unprecedented rising global risk. Our adversaries are advancing. Global nuclear threats are on the rise, and deterrence is paramount. Our national defense requires urgent action and reform across the board. We must go faster. We must move with a sense of urgency.
(15:59)
We can never forget that our number one job is to create peace through overwhelming strength, and if need be, fight and win our nation's wars. I realize for many Americans I'm an unknown leader, and it is with a heart full of gratitude that I've been given a truly unique set of experiences that I believe have prepared me to be the 22nd chairman.
(16:23)
For the past 34 years, I've served in the active Title 10 Force, in the Title 32 National Guard Force, in the Title 50 force at the CIA. I've served in the interagency and at the White House, and I've deployed in combat as a fighter pilot, a special operations officer, and a CIA officer, and I've been an entrepreneur and investor in the business sector while a citizen soldier in the National Guard.
(16:51)
As a general officer, I've had the privilege of serving three presidents from both political parties, and most recently was the associate director for military affairs at the CIA, a job where I was charged to provide military advice to the director of the CIA, and globally integrate DOD and CIA activities across the world. Along the way, I've proudly served alongside some of America's most incredible warriors and civilian teammates and their families, and I've witnessed them do awe-inspiring things in the service of our nation, and to a person they've poured more into me than I could ever have poured into them, especially our non-commissioned officer corps.
(17:37)
And sadly, I've been there with them as they made the ultimate sacrifice on the fields of battle, and been with their families as we told them of their loved one's service and sacrifice; I think of our fallen every single day.
(17:53)
These experiences help me to better understand how our nation considers and uses military force to achieve our national security objectives, and they directly inform my views of the importance of carefully considering the use of that force, and the risks associated with it beforehand, and always asking the important question, "And then what?" before we do. And if the decision is made to use military force, crushing our enemies and winning.
(18:26)
I've also had the privilege of serving alongside incredible business leaders, starting and scaling companies as an entrepreneur, and along the way I learned what a different kind of grit looks like. Our American entrepreneurial spirit is a force multiplier, and my time as an entrepreneur has made me a better general officer and leader, and if confirmed, I'll bring more of that spirit into the Joint Force.
(18:52)
Senators, I'm here today to earn your trust, and the trust of the American people. If confirmed, I'll continue to work as I have for my entire 34 years in uniform, always focused on the mission, and our incredible people. If confirmed, I'll continue the traditions and standards of my oath of office and my commission as a nonpartisan leader who will always strive to do the right thing.
(19:17)
Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reed, and members of the committee, thank you for your time and your consideration. As we gather here today, let us never forget our deployed forces and their families, and may we always remember our fallen and their families, especially those three that Senator Reed mentioned, and our one missing. I look forward to your questions.
Mr. Wicker (19:40):
Thank you very, very much. General Caine, I am required to ask you some standard questions that we ask of all nominees in your situation, and so if you will just answer yes or no to these questions, to keep your talk button pressed. Have you adhered to the applicable laws and regulations governing conflicts of interest?
General Caine (20:09):
Yes. Senator, I have.
Mr. Wicker (20:10):
Have you assumed any duties or taken any actions that would appear to presume the outcome of the confirmation process?
General Caine (20:17):
No. Senator, I have not.
Mr. Wicker (20:19):
Exercising our legislative and oversight responsibilities makes it important that this committee, its subcommittees, and other appropriate committees of Congress receive testimony, briefings, reports, records, and other information from the executive branch on a timely basis. Do you agree if confirmed to appear and testify before this committee when requested?
General Caine (20:40):
I do, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (20:41):
Do you agree, when asked before this committee to give your personal views, even if your views differ from the administration?
General Caine (20:49):
I do, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (20:51):
do you agree to provide records, documents, and electronic communications in a timely manner when requested by this committee, by its subcommittees, or other appropriate committees of Congress, and to consult with the requester regarding the basis for any good faith delay or denial in providing such records?
General Caine (21:12):
I do, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (21:13):
Will you ensure that your staff complies with deadlines established by this committee for the production of reports, records, and other information, including timely responding to hearing questions for the record?
General Caine (21:25):
I will, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (21:26):
And two more General, will you cooperate in providing witnesses and briefers in response to congressional requests?
General Caine (21:33):
Yes. Senator, I will.
Mr. Wicker (21:35):
Will those witnesses and briefers be protected from reprisal for their testimony or briefings?
General Caine (21:41):
They will Senator.
Mr. Wicker (21:42):
Thank you very, very much. Now let me just start out by asking about some hyperbole that may have been out there in the press. General Caine, did you wear a MAGA hat in front of the president?
General Caine (22:03):
No sir.
Mr. Wicker (22:03):
Did you wear a MAGA hat at any time?
General Caine (22:06):
No, sir.
Mr. Wicker (22:07):
Okay. Would you like to elaborate on that answer?
General Caine (22:10):
sir? For 34 years I've upheld my oath of office, and my commitment to my commission, and I have never worn any political merchandise.
Mr. Wicker (22:19):
Okay, thank you for that answer. Now, previous chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have somewhat equivocated when asked about top-line spending issues, I think you know about the proposals that will soon be before this Senate and this Congress. Is it in your best military advice, based on your experience, is it your opinion that we need real growth in the defense budget to maintain deterrence against the very capital cities and interests that you mentioned in your testimony?
General Caine (23:03):
Well, Senator, thank you for that question. We definitely must have a sense of urgency related to the budget. I think it comes down to ultimately finding more deployable or allocatable capital, and there's really three ways to do that. We can find greater efficiencies in the budget through cost savings, we can reprogram from different programs, or we can get a higher top line. I think of it in terms of a business model where we get more revenue, so we've got to move quickly and figure out how we can get real purchasing growth over time.
Mr. Wicker (23:37):
Okay. Well let's talk about efficiency. In the special operations community, and with the CIA, you've worked with some of the most innovative and risk-taking parts of national security enterprise. You also mentioned your experience in the private sector, which I think can serve you well; start-up ventures in the private sector, is that right?
General Caine (24:08):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Wicker (24:09):
And if confirmed, you'll conduct oversight on the military's requirement processes. We hear constantly from our combatant commanders that it takes years for their military needs to be converted into requirements. Based on your experience, do you believe the requirements process needs to be fixed, and do you agree with those who say it needs to be entirely torn down and rebuilt to get our warfighters what they need according to a timeline in which they need it?
General Caine (24:45):
Well Senator, I definitely agree something has to be done. The solution is probably somewhere in the middle. I don't know that we need to tear the whole thing down. I definitely agree that we need to improve the speed and agility of our requirements process. Technology is evolving so fast, our requirements process does not evolve at the same time, and we've got to have our combatant commander's voice in the requirements process.
(25:14)
The one area that I think we also need to do is to keep a global picture on those requirement processes. No two combatant commands have the same requirements, and only the joint staff has the global view on those requirements, along with OSD. So if confirmed, I'd like to continue to work with you, and the rest of the Congress to sort through this, so I appreciate it.
Mr. Wicker (25:38):
Well, have you had a chance to read my white paper on the FORGED Act and that proposed legislation?
General Caine (25:49):
Yes sir.
Mr. Wicker (25:51):
Don't you agree that it's a masterful piece of legislation?
General Caine (25:55):
I do, sir. It was a beautiful read, sir, yeah.
Mr. Wicker (26:00):
Would you like to elaborate on that?
General Caine (26:02):
Yeah, well sir, I mean I think it certainly lays out a lot of good markers for improvement in the requirements process.
Mr. Wicker (26:09):
Well, it seems to me you've worked in the private sector and you work with startups, the number of people in DOD who have to touch something, touch an idea, sign off on an idea, to actually get something done is far different from those people who are actually making innovative changes in the private sector; is that correct?
General Caine (26:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Wicker (26:39):
Okay, and do you agree then that we need to move in the direction of efficiency, and that a lot of the top-line money that I mentioned in my second question can be found by efficiencies and moving things faster, and also we can get to the warfighter what they need in a timely manner?
General Caine (27:02):
Yes sir.
Mr. Wicker (27:05):
Well, let me ask, because I've got 12 seconds, I might do a follow-up at the end there, but thank you very much for your testimony. Senator Reed.
Mr. Reed (27:14):
Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
(27:16)
General Caine, as you are aware, it was recently revealed that senior Trump administration officials, including the secretary of defense, were sharing sensitive information about upcoming strikes in Yemen on a Signal group chat. In your professional opinion, should a member of the Joint Chiefs, or the relevant combatant commander have been included in that discussion?
General Caine (27:39):
Senator, thanks for that question. I understand that the voice of the Joint Force had been expressed through the incredible work of the acting chairman, and current vice chairman. I understand he put a statement out yesterday or the day before saying that they'd consulted with the secretary, and from what I understand of that chat, that was a partisan political chat, and so the Joint Force should not have been represented in there sir.
Mr. Reed (28:07):
In your professional opinion, should the Yemen strikes have been discussed in a Signal group chat on an unclassified platform?
General Caine (28:15):
Well, Senator, I understand that both you and the chairman have asked for an inquiry into that, so I don't want to comment specifically on that matter. What I will say is that we should always preserve the element of surprise, and that should translate across every information domain and format, and never put our warfighters in any harm's way.
Mr. Reed (28:40):
Well, let me ask you, if you were on that conversation, would you have objected to the fact that it was being conducted on Signal?
General Caine (28:48):
Well, Senator, I was not in that chat.
Mr. Reed (28:51):
I know that, that's why I asked if you were.
General Caine (28:55):
Senator, I've always communicated proper information in the proper channels.
Mr. Reed (29:02):
Thank you sir.
(29:04)
Immediately following the announcement, and this is a follow-up to Chairman Wicker's first question, immediately following the announcement of your nomination, press stories started to circulate about comments President Trump made about you and your past relationship. And according to the reports the president tells a story where he spoke to you while you were serving in Iraq on active duty, and you said that you loved him, and, " I'll kill for you sir." The President then said that you followed up these comments by putting on a Make America Great Again hat; General Caine, is any of this story true?
General Caine (29:42):
Senator, as I mentioned to the chairman, for 34 years I've upheld my oath of office and the responsibilities of my commission. I think I went back and listened to those tapes, and I think the President was actually talking about somebody else, and I've never worn any political merchandise, or said anything to that effect.
Mr. Reed (30:03):
Thank you. General Caine, during the consideration of your nomination, were you ever asked who you voted for in the last election, or 2020 election?
General Caine (30:12):
Senator, I was not.
Mr. Reed (30:14):
Are you aware of any presently serving service members or senior civilians in DOD being asked questions like this?
General Caine (30:21):
I'm not Senator.
Mr. Reed (30:23):
Do you agree that it's the utmost importance to keep the military apolitical, and questions like this should not be asked?
General Caine (30:30):
I agree with you, yes, Senator.
Mr. Reed (30:32):
And what steps you will take to guard against the potential politicization?
General Caine (30:37):
Senator I think the question was what steps will I take to guard against politicization. I think it starts with being a good example from the top, and making sure that we are nonpartisan, and apolitical, and speaking the truth to power every day.
Mr. Reed (30:55):
General Caine, do you believe there's any situation where it would be appropriate for you not to be consulted prior to a military operation?
General Caine (31:05):
Well, Senator, I'm not in the job yet, so I can't imagine any hypothetical situation where I would not be in the conversation, if that's what you're asking. I believe the Joint Force, if confirmed, and even if I'm not in a job, the Joint Force has a responsibility to provide best options to the secretary, the NCC, and the president. So I can't imagine a case where the Joint Force would not be in the conversation.
Mr. Reed (31:33):
Final question, if confirmed, and this is a… You've got 40 seconds and this is probably will take longer than that, so just brief thoughts. How are you going to ensure that the parochialism, which is endemic in every organization, but certainly also in the Department of Defense, is curtailed or focused to a more joint effort?
General Caine (31:57):
Well, Senator, I appreciate that, and I'll be quick and come back to you with more if need be, but I'm encouraged by the 648 years of experience that currently exist in the Joint Chiefs of Staff and in the Joint Staff, and I think they're all absolute professionals.
Mr. Reed (32:15):
Thank you very much, sir.
General Caine (32:16):
Thank you, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (32:19):
Thank you Senator Reed. Senator Fisher?
Mrs. Fischer (32:21):
Thank you Mr. Chairman. Welcome General, thank you for putting yourself forward to continue to serve your country. As you are aware, there's ongoing efforts to force the Department of Defense to vacate portions of key bands of the electromagnetic spectrum, particularly the lower three gigahertz, and the seven-to-eight gigahertz bands. General Caine, do you agree that the Department of Defense should have a meaningful co-leadership in any interagency determinations about the future use of federal spectrum?
General Caine (33:03):
Senator, thanks for that question. There are certain elements of the spectrum that have unique physics associated with them that can impact our combat capabilities, so we certainly want to have a voice in the conversation.
Mrs. Fischer (33:20):
Do you believe that it should be a co-leadership, though? Not just a seat at the table, but because of the exquisite assets that the department has, and your knowledge of what those are, that you would need to have that co-leadership position?
General Caine (33:40):
Senator, you asked what the views of the department was. Mindful that I'm not in the job yet, and if confirmed, I'd have that conversation with the secretary about co-leadership related to that.
Mrs. Fischer (33:52):
What are the risks to national security if the department is forced to vacate those spectrum
Mrs. Fischer (34:00):
… spectrum bands.
General Caine (34:02):
Well, Senator, some of that may be reserved for a conversation in closed session at some point in the future, but certainly if we lose portions of that spectrum, we'll lose some exclusivity related to our combat capability. And certainly one, don't want to tip that off to our adversaries who might be listening, but two, would rather talk about that in closed session.
Mrs. Fischer (34:25):
I look forward to having those discussions with you if you are confirmed, sir. General Cain, for the first time in history, the United States faces two nuclear peer adversaries in China and in Russia, and yet our planned nuclear force was decided back in 2010 when the threat environment looked very, very different. And it hasn't been reconsidered since then. For example, just over the past few years, China surpassed the US in the number of ICBM launchers it possesses. Russia has suspended the New START Treaty and Nuclear Saber Rattling has been a defining feature of its invasion to Ukraine. North Korea has claimed to test the first solid fuel ICBM. And I'm concerned that our current programs or record may not be sufficient to address these future threats or these current threats, let alone future threats. If confirmed, how would you work with the Secretary, the services, STRATCOM, to identify and address any insufficiencies so that our nuclear deterrent would remain credible?
General Caine (35:40):
Well, Senator, and it must remain credible, we must invest in the deterrent side of our nuclear triad and there's a lot of work to be done there. And if confirmed, I look to work with the incredible leadership at STRATCOM. We have a great commander out there who's very smart, dedicated, and technically all over the program out there. And this will be an area of significant emphasis to make sure that we're fielding the capabilities that we need.
Mrs. Fischer (36:08):
Have you had an opportunity to review the Strategic Posture Commission's 2023 report?
General Caine (36:15):
Senator, I've not.
Mrs. Fischer (36:17):
I would highly recommend that you do so. It very clearly articulates projected threats. It identifies potential gaps in our capabilities and it makes a number of actionable recommendations, many of which were included in last year's NDAA. Finally, General Cain, the nuclear-armed sea-launch cruise missile or SLCM, is a Navy program of record that has been supported by this committee on a strong bipartisan basis. I was pleased to see you affirm the importance of SLCM in your advanced policy questions. Can you explain to this committee the importance of providing the President with additional theater nuclear options such as SLCM-N?
General Caine (37:05):
Well, Senator, when we look at the global laydown of nuclear weapons that you alluded to, the United States having an additional option is a key and essential component to our overall deterrence, and that's where SLCM-N fits into the equation.
Mrs. Fischer (37:20):
It's important that our Commander-in-Chief would have those options?
General Caine (37:25):
Well, I won't get out in front of the President. It may be a decision that he has a different view on, but certainly the joint force should offer him that option for his consideration based on the needs of the deterrent capabilities.
Mrs. Fischer (37:37):
And it's a program of record?
General Caine (37:39):
Yes, ma'am.
Mrs. Fischer (37:40):
Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wicker (37:42):
Thank you, Senator Fischer. Senator Shaheen.
Mrs. Shaheen (37:46):
General Cain, congratulations on your nomination and thank you for your willingness to continue to serve the country. I appreciated the time we spent in my office talking about this role and the challenges that you will be facing. One of the things that we discussed was the women peace and security legislation that was signed by President Trump during his first term, and it mandates that women should be at the table in conflict resolution and peace negotiations. And at DOD that's meant having women involved in security cooperation programs that really give us, I think, an advantage over our adversaries like China and Russia. Just for the record, are you familiar with the WPS program, General Cain?
General Caine (38:39):
I am Senator, yes.
Mrs. Shaheen (38:41):
And do you believe that's a DEI program?
General Caine (38:45):
I do not.
Mrs. Shaheen (38:45):
Thank you. Can you provide some examples of the operational advantage that from your perspective, this gives us?
General Caine (38:54):
Well, Senator, I can just give you my own personal recollections from being deployed before this was precursors of the program, but when we would go out into the field and after concluding an assault, we would have members, female members who would speak with those women and children who are on the objective and they would help us to understand the human terrain in a new and novel way. And so WPS is I think a program that really help us to understand the full spectrum of challenges that are in front of us.
Mrs. Shaheen (39:31):
Thank you for that. One of the combatant commands that has been most effective in using the WPS law has been INDOPACOM, can you talk about how this contributes to the mission that INDOPACOM has?
General Caine (39:48):
Well, Senator, I'm not familiar with the INDOPACOM-specific example. If confirmed, I'll look into it and come back to you with my thoughts on that matter.
Mrs. Shaheen (39:58):
Great, thank you, I appreciate that. We've been hearing some rumors that have suggested that the administration is considering ending the dual-hat policy under which our commander of European command serves as the Supreme Allied commander of NATO. The commander of UCOM has served as the Supreme Allied Commander since Eisenhower, and part of the reason is to ensure that US command and control of nuclear weapons on the continent also prevents nuclear proliferation in Europe. I'm not going to ask you to comment on what the policy of this administration may or may not be since I assume it's not been determined. But can you talk about the importance of US leadership in NATO as a result of this dual-hat arrangement and how would you approach mill-to-mill obligations with NATO partners?
General Caine (40:54):
Well Senator, allies and partners are a critical component to our ability to protect and defend our values and virtues around the world. NATO is a key component to that. The President's been clear on his views of the importance of NATO, as has the Secretary, related to whether or not SACEUR stays a US military officer. I'll defer to the President on that. I think that's a discussion that he currently is ongoing, but for me in particular, I value our allies and partners and if confirmed, that'll be a significant portion of the job that I have ahead of me.
Mrs. Shaheen (41:27):
Well, and I appreciate that that's a policy decision, but what I'm really asking is what the advantage is for the United States in having the SACEUR be an American.
General Caine (41:42):
And Senator as always anytime we have US forces deployed, we generally have wanted them under a US commander, and that was the history behind the establishment of SACEUR and putting the dual-hat UCOM commander and SACEUR together. And I think it is an opportunity for global leadership in particular in Europe. But again, would defer to the President as he considers what the future policy may look like.
Mrs. Shaheen (42:10):
And I know that Senator Reed asked you this question and it was part of your official questions from Senator Wicker, but when you have situations where your military advice may be different from the direction that the administration is heading on policy, how do you intend to approach those situations and how would you continue to make sure that the military perspective that you're supposed to represent is actually being presented?
General Caine (42:43):
Well Senator, the same way I have for 34 years with candor. Candor has gotten me here today and candor will continue to allow me to do my job moving forward. The President doesn't have to accept the military advice or the Secretary of the NSC, but we owe it to them for us to deliver that military advice.
Mrs. Shaheen (43:06):
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
General Caine (43:07):
Thank you.
Mr. Wicker (43:08):
Thank you, Senator Shaheen. Senator Cotton.
Mr. Cotton (43:11):
General Cain, congratulations on your nomination and thank you for your 34 years of service. Thank you also for your service at times in the intelligence community where your reputation is as strong as it is in the Department of Defense. Let's continue on the theme of Senator Shaheen's question about providing your candid military advice. I think as the Chairman and Senator Reed pointed out, a lot of people don't understand the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is not in the chain of command. Is that correct?
General Caine (43:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Cotton (43:39):
By law your role is the principal of military advisor, so if the President makes a decision on this, that or the other policy or operation about this, that or the other country that goes from him to the Secretary of Defense down to some other commander, say the CENTCOM commander or the Secretary of the Army or what have you, you're on the side giving advice to everyone, but you're not actually carrying out decisions in the chain of command?
General Caine (44:03):
That's correct, Senator.
Mr. Cotton (44:04):
And I think Congress gave the Chairman that role because we wanted someone who was free from those day-to-day demands of operational or managerial duties to provide that candid military advice. And as Senator Shaheen said, it's important that you provide that advice even when you think the principal doesn't want to hear it, the Secretary of Defense or the NSC or the President. But I think you said in your opening statement that you were an unusual or an unconventional nominee, which was it?
General Caine (44:35):
I think it was unconventional, sir.
Mr. Cotton (44:36):
Unconventional, okay. I agree with that. I think most people would as well. You don't strike me as the kind of guy who has been angling for this job for 34 years. Is that a fair statement?
General Caine (44:47):
That would be a fair statement, Senator.
Mr. Cotton (44:49):
And did you expect to get this job as recently as, I don't know, three or six months ago?
General Caine (44:53):
I did not, Senator.
Mr. Cotton (44:57):
Is there any reason to think that you're not going to be providing your candid and best professional military advice even and maybe especially when you've gotten wind, say a little birdie has tipped you off that maybe the Secretary or the President doesn't want to hear what you have to say?
General Caine (45:11):
Senator, no. And I went to VMI where I lived in the new barracks for four years and looked out on a statue of George Catlett Marshall for four years. And sir, if I failed to provide my candid advice to the Secretary or the NSC or the President, I think General Marshall would climb out of his grave and hunt me down.
Mr. Cotton (45:32):
Good, thank you. Because I think every President, every NSC, every Secretary of Defense needs that, especially from a Chairman, not to give them their candid advice when it's welcome, but even when they know it's unwelcome. Now, as you said though, you're an advisor, you're not a decider, you're not a commander. Once the Secretary in some cases or the President probably in most cases has made the decision, then you're on the side making sure that decision is going to be carried out by the relevant commanders, right?
General Caine (46:02):
Yes sir.
Mr. Cotton (46:03):
Thank you. Let's look at something specific in this area now, and that's the threat of Iran's nuclear program. By some estimates, they could be just weeks away from having at least testable if not workable nuclear devices, maybe as few as a couple of years away from having missiles that could hit us here in the United States. The President has said repeatedly that he wants a peaceful resolution to this crisis, but he is also said, I think his recently as last week quote, "If they don't make a deal, there will be bombing," end quote. He said for at least a decade I've known him that Iran cannot be allowed to get a nuclear weapon. Do you agree with the President's assessment that Iran cannot be allowed to get a nuclear weapon?
General Caine (46:43):
I do, sir.
Mr. Cotton (46:46):
And do you agree that because of their missile programs, especially the flimsy cover of the space launch program, that this is not just a threat to our troops in the region or Israel or our Arab friends in the region, this could be an imminent and existential threat to the United States itself in just a few short years?
General Caine (47:07):
Senator, I think that's an accurate statement.
Mr. Cotton (47:13):
If the President asks for military options to support what he has said publicly that if Iran is not willing to make a deal that there will be bombing, do you commit to provide him the best and candid advice you can about viable military options and the likely consequences of each?
General Caine (47:30):
Senator, I think that's what the job of the joint staff is to do, is to provide a range of options for the President to consider and then allow him to select whatever those options to work best for him.
Mr. Cotton (47:41):
Thank you. And finally, there's some hysteria about the prospect of the President ordering these strikes or someone like you in uniform providing him advise that it's going to lead to another forever war or another endless war. Are you aware of operations, maybe operations against Iran like the tanker wars in 1988 in which the forceful but discriminant application of military power did not lead to a forever war or an endless war but rather led to peace and stability?
General Caine (48:12):
Yes, sir. Those examples in our history do exist as-
Mr. Cotton (48:16):
Maybe the Qasem Soleimani strike in 2020 as well that caused Iran to pull in its horns for the rest of President Trump's first term. Thank you, General Cain.
General Caine (48:23):
Thank you, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (48:24):
You can answer that question verbally, Senator Cain. I noticed you nodded. I mean General Cain, you nodded your head.
General Caine (48:33):
Yes, sir. I wasn't sure exactly what the question was, but I agree with you, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (48:39):
Thank you, senator Cotton and thank you General. Senator Blumenthal.
Mr. Blumenthal (48:46):
Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you General Cain for visiting my office for your service and your families to our nation. You have a record that is exemplary and lengthy. You've served in the Air Force, the Air National Guard, and within the intelligence community with extraordinary distinction. This position is not one that you sought, is it?
General Caine (49:14):
No sir.
Mr. Blumenthal (49:15):
Or ever expected?
General Caine (49:17):
No sir.
Mr. Blumenthal (49:18):
And the reason is quite simply that the President of the United States decided to fire the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for political and personal reasons. And I must say that I find that abhorrent and I know that you are not going to comment in those terms on the treatment of your potential predecessor, but would you agree with me that politicization of the military is something that should be avoided at all costs?
General Caine (50:03):
Yes sir, that the nation and the Constitution all require a nonpartisan military.
Mr. Blumenthal (50:11):
And would you agree with me that this apparent myth because you've credibly denied it, that you wore a MAGA hat is extremely regrettable and unfortunate?
General Caine (50:24):
Sir, I just know that I have always upheld my oath of office and don't believe the President said I was wearing a MAGA hat from what I've listened to the tapes.
Mr. Blumenthal (50:37):
You don't believe he ever said it, but it has been attributed to him.
General Caine (50:42):
Sir, I think maybe he was talking about somebody else when I went and listened to the tapes.
Mr. Blumenthal (50:46):
Let me ask you, because of your extraordinary service general, and I can't imagine anyone better qualified to answer this question, if you heard that a mission of the kind that was discussed on an unsecure platform, Signal, and you were in one of those planes about to launch on that mission against the Houthis, knowing what you do about the substance of that conversation, how would you feel?
General Caine (51:23):
Well Senator, I stand by what I said before. I think we all can agree that we need to always protect the element of surprise.
Mr. Blumenthal (51:30):
And that element of surprise was very likely lost if there had been any intercept by one of our enemies or adversaries that could be conveyed to the Houthis, correct?
General Caine (51:45):
Senator, that's a little bit of a hypothetical question, but I'm thankful as always that we protect our servicemen and women who are going into combat operations.
Mr. Blumenthal (51:57):
But there are a lot of pilots and other military men and women who are understandably angry about that call, correct?
General Caine (52:08):
Sir, I've not had anybody come to me and tell me that they're angry about it, so I can't comment on that.
Mr. Blumenthal (52:18):
Have you read reports about that reaction to the call?
General Caine (52:22):
I have not Senator, no.
Mr. Blumenthal (52:26):
Would you agree that that kind of reliance on Signal for that kind of conversation should be avoided in the future?
General Caine (52:36):
Senator, I just know that I have always used the right system for the right kinds of communications. I don't know in particular what information was classified in what way on that Signal chat, I know that we must preserve the element of surprise.
Mr. Blumenthal (52:57):
That platform is not a hardened and secure platform.
General Caine (53:03):
That platform is encrypted but not secure, I believe in the definition of the term secure.
Mr. Blumenthal (53:11):
Let me ask you quickly on another topic. Would you agree that the Columbia-class program should continue to be an acquisition priority along with the Virginia-class?
General Caine (53:31):
Sir, I do think Columbia needs to continue forward at a pace and tempo equal to the threat.
Mr. Blumenthal (53:40):
My time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wicker (53:43):
Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Rounds.
Mr. Rounds (53:46):
Thank you Mr. Chairman. General Cain, once again, thank you for taking the time in my office to visit with me about a number of the items that you're hearing about today. I want to go back specifically to an item that Senator Fischer began talking with you about and that is with regard to the spectrum and the challenges surrounding it. And the reason why I want to use that as an example is because I know that General Milley and General C.Q. Brown, both in their role as the Chief of Staff and providing their best military opinion and advice were put in a position literally of saying to other people within other administrations that this particular part of the electromagnetic spectrum which is currently controlled by the Department of Defense is critical to our national defense.
(54:38)
And in fact, over the last several years, I have asked in front of this particular committee, well over two dozen uniformed officers to specifically discuss the need to maintain control of specific portions of the electronic spectrum. In particular, I've asked whether or not the 3.1 to 3.45 gigahertz band, if we were to lose that from DOD's specific use, if that would have negative consequences for our war fighting capabilities. And I have had 100% agreement that if we lost that it would have negative consequences. Would you agree with that assessment?
General Caine (55:18):
I would Senator.
Mr. Rounds (55:20):
Thank you. You will be asked at some point because this is a valuable commodity, there's a limited amount of electromagnetic spectrum available, but there are interests within the United States that would love to have access to this without regard to what it would do or not understanding what the impact would be on our national defense. Are you aware that under President Trump's proposed concept of a golden dome or a protection, a missile protection system, that a number of the radar systems that would be required to be in effect for that to move forward are found within the 3.1 to 3.45 portions of the spectrum because of their unique physical or physics competencies?
General Caine (56:05):
Senator, I'm familiar with the basics of that frequency spectrum. I don't know what particular radars Golden Dome has brought into their mix of equipment, but that would not surprise me.
Mr. Rounds (56:18):
Thank you. I just think part of the discussion that's been here today has been a concern by the committee that any person that has the role of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs recognize just how serious their role is with regard to providing to a very, very group of powerful individuals, the best professional military advice that they can provide. And recognizing that while you don't control the policy that is set, your role as this committee sees it is in many cases the last resort to providing the right types of advice that elected leaders have to hear regardless of whether or not they want to hear it. My understanding and once again, I'll ask you to just confirm it, you recognize that that is your primary responsibility.
General Caine (57:09):
Senator, I think that's the most important part of this job and the essential part of this job. And if confirmed, you have my commitment that I'll always speak truth to power.
Mr. Rounds (57:20):
Well, I think you'll find that this committee will be very supportive of you in that role. General, the B21-Raider is one of the most capable military platforms the world has ever seen. It will play a crucial role in any conflict the US faces against a near peer adversary because of its ability to operate in a highly contested environment. The Air Force has committed to at least 100 B-21s. But given its dual missions of conventional long-range strike and nuclear deterrence, many of us believe that we will need a number closer to 200 bombers. If confirmed, would you be prepared to advocate for more than 100 and perhaps as many as 200 of these platforms if a review of our war plan suggested that that is what is required for our operational plans moving forward?
General Caine (58:08):
Senator, the last part of your question I think is the key part for me, after the analysis portion and mindful that I've not been confirmed for this job yet, I'd like to speak to the other Joint Chiefs and the combat commanders whose requirements Raider will fulfill before I commit to supporting any particular number of B- 21s. It's an essential part of our nuclear and conventional program and certainly a key component of it. But before I commit to any number, I'd like to study the matter and come back to you.
Mr. Rounds (58:41):
But if that appears to be the case, you would not hesitate to recommend more if those studies warranted it?
General Caine (58:48):
I would not hesitate.
Mr. Rounds (58:49):
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wicker (58:55):
Thank you, Senator Rounds. Senator Hirono.
Ms. Hirono (58:55):
Thank you Mr. Chairman. General Cain, with all due respect to you, we should not be here today. This hearing is happening only because of the unprecedented dismissal without cause of General Brown as Chairman. As a highly respected military leader, General Brown faithfully served our country for decades. He provided exactly what the Constitution asks of him, the best nonpartisan military advice to civilian leadership. However, for an administration that is claiming to be the most quote, "transparent in history" end quote, no reasonable justification has been provided for General Brown's termination. Instead, General Brown's dismissal reveals once again, President Trump's intention to install yes men and women with fealty to him and not to the Constitution or their American people. Now, General Cain, you said you will always speak truth to power in your responses to advanced questions. And you indicated that you would provide independent advice, but let me just mention what happens to people who stand up to President Trump.
(01:00:12)
General Milley, who was a former Chair of Joint Chiefs, stood up to President Trump and here's what happened to him. President Trump took away his security detail, his security clearance, he even took down his portrait in the Pentagon. That's not all. General Milley is now under investigation by the Department's Inspector General to see if you'll be able to retire as a four-star general. It's always a challenge to stand up to this President. Let me just start with the two initial questions and I'll get to some other questions that have to do with your fitness to serve. I ask these questions of all nominees on any of the committees on which I sit. Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
General Caine (01:01:10):
I have not, Senator.
Ms. Hirono (01:01:10):
Have you ever faced discipline or entered into a settlement relating to this kind of conduct?
General Caine (01:01:17):
I have not, Senator.
Ms. Hirono (01:01:19):
General, you've been asked a number of questions regarding what the President attributed to you, that it's always been reported that you wore a MAGA hat, you testified you did not. If you did wear a MAGA hat, would that constitute partisan political activity by a uniformed officer?
General Caine (01:01:41):
Senator, I did not wear any political merchandise.
Ms. Hirono (01:01:44):
If you wore such a hat, would that constitute partisan political activity by a uniformed officer? Yes or no?
General Caine (01:01:52):
I think it probably would. Yes, Senator.
Ms. Hirono (01:01:54):
Thank you. General Cain, you've been asked also a number of questions about what's being referred to as Signalgate, and I commend the chair of this committee and the ranking member for asking for an IG inquiry. You were the director for special access programs at the Pentagon and office that manages our nation's most classified programs. Have you ever discussed classified information on an unclassified medium such as Signal?
General Caine (01:02:29):
No, Senator. I have not.
Ms. Hirono (01:02:31):
What would be the consequences for discussing a special access program on Signal?
General Caine (01:02:38):
Well Senator, we'd have to first do an investigation. We'd have to look into the particular matters associated with it. We'd have to consult with counsel to determine what the way forward was and then ultimately turn it over to the leadership in the department.
Ms. Hirono (01:02:57):
And you wouldn't just let this matter drop, which is basically what this administration wants to do?
General Caine (01:03:02):
Well Senator, I think that it's a little bit of a hypothetical situation asking me about what would happen if a SAP was dropped into a Signal.
Ms. Hirono (01:03:10):
It's really not a hypothetical. It is what is confronting this administration and what's happening. You know that we need to preserve the element of surprise. Is discussing the kinds of matters that were discussed on Signal preserving the element of surprise?
General Caine (01:03:30):
Senator, I don't want to… Given the fact that the Chairman and ranking member have been asked for an investigation, I don't want to comment on the particulars. I do want to stay at the strategic altitude and say that we should always preserve the element of surprise.
Ms. Hirono (01:03:46):
I think it was a very simple question, whether or not talking about the things that have been reported, whether that preserved the element of surprise. I would say that if you're truly speaking truth to power, that the answer would obviously be, no it does not preserve the element of surprise. That is why we need to have an inquiry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wicker (01:04:12):
Thank you, Senator Hirono. Senator Ernst.
Ms. Ernst (01:04:12):
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Excuse me. And I first would like to acknowledge the loss of three soldiers from the Third Infantry Division and pray for a speedy recovery on the fourth. General Cain, thank you so much for being in front of this committee today. And we all understand that there's a little bit of political theatrics that always occur on this committee, but I would like to thank you very much for your integrity and your measured responses to the questions today. You are carrying yourself with dignity and respect, and that's what we would anticipate and expect of anyone that will be serving as the Chairman of our Joint Chiefs of Staff, so thank you very much for that. You stated that you are an unconventional leader moving forward, and I am particular am very excited about that because you have served on active duty in active duty Air Force, but also in regards to my own service, you are a National Guardsman and thank you. It gives you a very well-rounded perspective when it comes to the men and women that serve in various capacities for our great armed services. But also very important to me is the fact that you have served as an entrepreneur and this brings a different level into the position that you are hoping to attain. And that leads me into my question. I've been very focused on our defense budget, efficiency and auditability. And we spoke about this in my office, because you have the eye of a businessman you know that your investment dollars are very important going into a business, so you will understand that every dollar going into our Department of Defense is also going to be very important for our war fighters and those that support them. The Department of Defense, despite managing the largest discretionary budget of the federal government, has yet to pass a full financial audit. We understand that this failure is eroding public trust in the department and hinders our ability as Congress to allocate those resources effectively and our frustrations just continue to grow. General Cain, if you are confirmed, what steps will you take to ensure the DOD finally passes a full audit by 2028 as required by the law, or ideally, if at all possible, even sooner?
General Caine (01:06:57):
Well Senator, thanks for that question. Not only as an entrepreneur alum, but also an American taxpayer, we owe it to the nation for the department to pass an audit. There are very few levers, if I'm confirmed, that the Chairman can throw other than to encourage the services to be prepared for that audit. And that's something that I'll take on if I'm confirmed for the job.
Ms. Ernst (01:07:20):
Thank you very much for that. And in regards to our special operations forces, I serve as the chair of the Emerging Threats and Capabilities Subcommittee, and will continue to advocate on behalf of our SOF. They're a very cost-effective force multiplier and they deliver those high-impact results with a very small footprint. And I know we have spoken about this, you do get that. Cuts to SOF funding risk seeding ground to our adversaries. General Cain, given SOF's proven role in great power competition, do you believe a justification exists
Ms. Ernst (01:08:00):
… for reducing their footprint and their budget at a time when unconventional threats are on the rise.
General Caine (01:08:08):
Well, Senator, mindful that I'm not in the job yet, I do understand and appreciate the exponential value that soft can bring to the competition phase that we're in right now. And if confirmed, I'd like to take that on and come back to you with my thoughts on it.
Ms. Ernst (01:08:26):
Yeah, thank you. And I will expect that as well.
General Caine (01:08:29):
Yes ma'am.
Ms. Ernst (01:08:30):
And I know we could go on, I'll submit a question for the record on recruitment and retention challenges. But I just want to close by saying I'm very grateful that President Trump has nominated you to serve as our chairman for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I do think that you'll bring a different level into this position, a different eye, a different way of looking at things. And we are in very challenging times, we all recognize this, we need a change. You are that change. So thank you very much for being willing to continue to serve in this capacity. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Wicker (01:09:07):
Thank you, Senator. Senator King.
Angus King (01:09:11):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General, congratulations on your nomination. We've discussed, almost every member of this panel has discussed the importance of giving straight advice to the President and the Secretary of Defense. These are two very strong personalities. The Oval Office is probably the most intimidating room in the world. And I hope you'll reiterate, you mentioned you owe it to them to give you the best advice. You also owe it to the country that you give them the best advice. You mentioned to me when we discussed this before, you have been retired, you didn't expect this job, you don't need this job. Give me your straight ahead commitment that when the chips are down, you're going to argue for your best military advice.
General Caine (01:09:58):
Senator, I don't know any other way to operate as a leader. My job, if confirmed, is to always provide best military advice to the President, the secretary of the NSC and to Congress, and to do so with candor every day.
Angus King (01:10:18):
That, as everybody has mentioned, particularly Senator Rounds, mentioned that this is really the principle responsibility of the job. And we are in a very dangerous moment. As you know, there are potential conflicts and conflicts all over the world. So you're going to be called upon probably in a matter of weeks to make these kind of calls and to provide that advice to the President. So I look forward to your honoring that commitment that you just made and making clear, not only providing advice, that sounds sort of neutral, but advocating for advice, saying this is what we believe the best military advice is. Let me move on.
(01:11:01)
It worries me sometimes that we have a tendency, particularly in national security, to move our focus from one area to the other and then we neglect the area that we're missing. What I'm very worried about now is a resurgence of terrorism. Syria, potentially could become another base for ISIS. There are thousands of ISIS fighters in jails in Syria. If they're released, that could be a major challenge. West Africa is now a major area of Al-Qaeda activity. Talk to me about the terrorism threat and the fact that we can't forget it because 19 people changed American history on September 11th and it doesn't take many terrorists to create serious problems for this country and for people around the world.
General Caine (01:11:55):
Well, sir, I don't know that I could say it any better than you just did. We have to keep our pressure on the terrorists who would continue to like-
Angus King (01:12:04):
Can you be sure that you got that in the record what he just said? Go ahead.
General Caine (01:12:08):
It's not something Senator, unfortunately, we can ever take our eyes off of completely. The challenge that somebody who would want to do harm to us or to our interests around the world is not going to go away anytime soon.
Angus King (01:12:24):
And one of the concerns that I have, we always talk about deterrence. That's the main spring of our defense strategy. But deterrence doesn't work with a terrorist with a nuclear weapon. They don't have a capital to blow up. They don't care about dying. The defense against that eventuality, which I think is absolutely terrifying, is intelligence. And I hope that you will continue to focus the forces in the Pentagon on intelligence and intervening if there's any threat of nuclear material getting into the hands of a terrorist organization.
General Caine (01:13:01):
Yes sir.
Angus King (01:13:04):
Finally, in terms of your leadership within the military, and I know that you're a passionate advocate for our war fighters. One of the things that concerns me, and I'm going from this meeting to a meeting of the Veterans Affairs Committee, is the transition from active duty military to retired, which you have experienced. And the testimony that we've had at numerous hearings is it's inadequate, it's improved in recent years, but there are still gaps that it's very complex and military active duty people going into veteran status, it turns out it's the highest propensity for suicide in the first couple of years after the transition from active duty. So I hope that's something that you'll pay some to. I believe that as much money, effort, and time should be spent on transition out as we spend on recruiting in.
General Caine (01:14:06):
Well, Senator, it is a bit of an arduous process. I can personally attest to that. And so I appreciate your leadership on helping the veterans of the nation to transition appropriately. And it is an area of risk for sure, and I'll keep my eye on it, if confirmed.
Angus King (01:14:20):
I hope you will. Thank you very much, General, and again, congratulations on your nomination.
Mr. Wicker (01:14:27):
Thank you, Senator
Angus King (01:14:27):
[inaudible 01:14:28] Obligation. Thank you.
Mr. Wicker (01:14:28):
Senator Cramer.
Kevin Cramer (01:14:30):
Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you General for your service and for your willingness to step back into the gap.
(01:14:36)
And while I agree that the dismissal of your predecessor was unfortunate, it's behind us. And I cannot think of a better person to replace General Brown than you. And frankly, the unconventionalness of you as the President's pick is in and of itself brilliant in my view. But when you look at your actual history and your actual service and the diversity of it, I just can't imagine a better choice. So congratulations on that and I look forward to supporting you strongly.
(01:15:14)
In your opening statement, you said some things that we hear a lot from people that come before the committee. And your response to Chairman Wicker's legislation dealing with the acquisition reform stuff, very welcoming. But everyone says that. Everyone says that. And yet I find it, and this is why frankly you being unconventional is encouraging to me because they all mean it, by the way, when they say it. I believe that at the moment they mean it. They mean it until the particular service that they served in or the particular agency within the service they served in, it was disrupted by the very thing they say they support.
(01:15:58)
We're dealing with the situation right now, perhaps the most disruptive innovator. Taking over, becoming the first director of the most disruptive innovative agency, the Space Development Agency, has been on leave for three months during a witch hunt that's began on the last day of the last administration. And everybody that says they're an innovator is an innovator except in this case, maybe we should check further into it. All the while satellites don't go up. All the while China goes at the speed of China. So I believe there's a cultural problem as well as we have some work to do as Congress policy makers have work to do, the administration has work to do, but we have a culture challenge as well. General, I'd like you to elaborate a little bit on how we can really make the difference that you say you want to make, and I believe you do want to make, so that we aren't just all of our industry into a couple of giants, whether it be a land, airspace, sea.
General Caine (01:17:02):
Well, Senator, you're hitting on an area that that is a point of passion for me. We have to stop admiring the problem and we have to start executing. And I do think your point about culture is where it all starts. I think we have to take an ownership and an entrepreneurial mindset to all of these reforms that are in front of us. And we can't do this alone, we have to do it with you here in the Congress in order to actually make these changes. I'm encouraged by the leaders who are coming into the department who have deep substantive business background that are not known as people who admire problems. And so if confirmed, I look forward to working with the various leaders in order to actually move the ball. And of course, working with the Congress to execute these things without continuing to admire these challenges in front of us.
Kevin Cramer (01:17:55):
Well, and I appreciate your reference to the new style of leaders coming in, the entrepreneurs and whatnot, and I have the same optimism as a result of it, but I am getting anxious about actually seeing it happen. So maybe you're the leader that can make that a reality for us now. We get to talk to the combatant commanders. You'll get to talk to them a lot. One of the things we hear over and over from commanders of course, is that intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, ISR is in great need and low supply these days. And the Air Force specifically has been on a mission to eliminate ISR as one of their key missions. It's disappeared even as a term in several of their documents to recent years. And it's not just their fault. I mean, as we've all been talking about, we have a resource challenge in our defense department and we're trying to work on that. I just think we all have to do a lot, lot more for sure. I want to recognize that. But I also worry that there's this divide between what the commanders say they need in the field and frankly what we're seeing and where we're investing. And I would just love your remaining seconds with me to expound a little bit on ISR, where you see it landing as a mission set. And maybe everybody has their own form, but I don't think that's very practical.
General Caine (01:19:23):
Well, Senator, just in my remaining five seconds, ISR and the ability to have indications and warnings to make decisions for commanders who hold risk is a key and essential part of our overall ability to execute the missions that we must do.
Kevin Cramer (01:19:39):
And I think that Air Force should keep it as a mission. I get that other services will have some form of it. But anyway, thank you. I look forward to supporting you.
General Caine (01:19:50):
Thank you, Senator.
Mr. Wicker (01:19:51):
Thank you. Senator Cramer. Senator Kaine.
Tim Kaine (01:19:55):
Thank you General. Good to see you. I enjoyed our visit. I would encourage my colleagues not to hold your last name against you. I share comments that some of my colleagues have made about the unfortunate circumstance with General Brown, but you didn't have anything to do with that. And I know from our conversations and my own due diligence, VMI is very proud of you. And folks who've worked with you in the past who I hold in high regard are very proud of you. And a lot of the questions that have been asked trying to really drill into your ability to give the best candid advice, I think your career has demonstrated to my satisfaction that you will do so.
(01:20:35)
One of the things that I really like about your background, and I think Senator Ernst and others have commented on it, is active and guard, DOD and private sector, at the Pentagon, at the White House, at the CIA. You've seen deep interaction with allies. You've really seen the breadth of our military mission in a way that I think is the kind of experience that would inform that judgment that you need to provide. And in fact, in a way, the role of the head of the Joint Chiefs, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs as Senator Cotton was walking you through, the work that you did at the CIA was a little bit the same role. Why don't you describe in a little more detail that posting to the CIA-
General Caine (01:21:23):
Yes, sir.
Tim Kaine (01:21:24):
A and what your job was in that, because I think it's almost analogous the advice you are providing to the CIA director, best military advice, is pretty analogous to the advice you'd be providing to the SEC DEF and the Commander in Chief.
General Caine (01:21:38):
Well, Senator, thank you for that question. And I do agree the A DMA, the Associate Director for Military Affairs was actually established by the Congress to detail a three star military officer over to the CIA under Title 50 authorities in order to provide best military advice to the director, the deputy director, and to work daily with the secretary, the chairman, the combatant commanders, and the service chiefs in order to globally integrate, same functions that the chairman has, in order to globally integrate CIA and DOD activities. And if confirmed, I'll continue to do that. Working with the best of the Title 10 forces, the best of Title 50, what the state department can bring to the table, what the rest of the interagency can bring to the table, along with our allies and partners. And so while I'm mindful that I've not led at the four star level, this is not a command job that I'm being considered for, it's an advisory job. And there's very similar traits to the last job in this one potential.
Tim Kaine (01:22:45):
And the posting that you had to the CIA for this important role, were you delegated by the SEC DEF to do that or did you interview with the CIA to get that post?
General Caine (01:22:56):
Sir, I was nominated by the department and interviewed by the CIA. And as far as I understand it, the CIA made the selection.
Tim Kaine (01:23:06):
But you were the nominee of the department? So I do think that the role is an important one. The one thing I don't see in your resume, but I suspect it's probably there and I just, your resume is too long, is interaction that you've had with the State Department over the course of your career. Could you talk about that a little bit?
General Caine (01:23:26):
Yes, sir. My first real substantive interaction with the State Department was actually when I was a White House fellow at USDA and we were charged with working on the global pandemic plan surrounding avian influenza H5N1.
Tim Kaine (01:23:43):
During the Bush administration?
General Caine (01:23:44):
Yes, sir. During the Bush administration. And that really began my substantive appreciation for what the diplomatic element of power can do. And that continued through my time in the military overseas and have deep regard and appreciation for what the State Department can do for us.
Tim Kaine (01:24:02):
I think all of us at times have been frustrated with silos that the states in their silo, intel and theirs, DOD, Pentagon and their own silo, and sometimes having the different perspectives is great. If everybody's just singing the exact same note, you sometimes wonder whether it's groupthink. So getting some different perspectives can be helpful. The fact that you've been in all parts of the Broad National Security family gives me some real confidence in your judgment coming into this position. Last thing I'll just ask is what would you say has been your signature experience over the course of your career in terms of interacting with our allies?
General Caine (01:24:47):
Probably, sir, the Scud hunt in 2003, where I had the opportunity to work very closely with our British, UK and Australian allies, which was absolutely a coalition effort from day one. And we went to war alongside them. And I've thankfully sustained all of those relationships. Now I have deep relationships with our closest allies. And if confirmed, look forward to continuing those.
Tim Kaine (01:25:16):
I'm a strong promoter of the AUKUS framework and the fact that you've had those relationships in the past and maintained them, that's a positive. I yield back. Thank you.
General Caine (01:25:23):
Thank you, sir.
Mr. Wicker (01:25:25):
Where were you exactly during that Scud operation, sir?
General Caine (01:25:30):
Well sir, the location that we flew out of I think is still classified. Happy to talk about that in a close session.
Mr. Wicker (01:25:41):
Okay. Thank you very much. Senator Scott.
Rick Scott (01:25:46):
All right. Thank you Chairman. So General, congratulations. You've got the right background. I think you're going to do a great job. Always like to see business guys succeed. So that's fun. This is all doable. I mean, you look at where we are, we've got communist China's built a military to defeat us. We've got allies that have not invested like they should have. We've got Iran, which appears to have enough money now to continue to support the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah. We've got China all over Latin America. I mean, what we have to do to defend the freedom of this country and try to do our best to police a world that mean, is this actually doable? Are you optimistic or are you pessimistic?
General Caine (01:26:32):
Senator, I'm always an optimistic leader.
Rick Scott (01:26:35):
And why do you believe that we can do it?
General Caine (01:26:39):
There's a lot of reasons, but the power of the American spirit is what leaps out to me right off the bat. There's very few things that we set our mind to that we can't achieve. And despite some of the very serious challenges in front of us, we've always rogered up to those challenges.
Rick Scott (01:26:56):
Do you think the budget that we're going to be able to provide is going to allow you to be able to do the things you need to do?
General Caine (01:27:01):
Well, Senator, I won't get in front of the President or OMB on what budget markers they set. What I will do confirm to you and commit to you is that whatever capital we're given will make the best out of it.
Rick Scott (01:27:13):
Yeah. So in Florida we have 20 military bases and three unified commands. One is homestead. We talked about this a little bit. It's not that far from Cuba, it's just Homestead is a little bit north of Key West and it hasn't had a dedicated flying mission in a while. It seems like it would be an important base. Do you see a future for Homestead and do you think it ought to have a flying mission?
General Caine (01:27:44):
Well, Senator, I won't get out in front of the service, but if confirmed, I'll definitely talk to the Air Force Reserve command and the Air Force to see what they're thinking around flying mission at Homestead. The history of that unit and that base is exemplary. They were with us in the Scud hunt. A small component of them were there with us back in 2003. And I've got deep appreciation for the culture and history of that unit.
Rick Scott (01:28:11):
This is the first time I have the opportunity to be the chairman of the subcommittee on Seapower. And as you know, we have not been able to build ships, maintain ships, keep ships ready. How do you think that's going to change?
General Caine (01:28:25):
Well, I think it's a significant challenge for us and we've got to up our game. I'm encouraged by the SECNAV's focus on this and we've got to get to our congressionally mandated number of 355 ships as soon as possible, which includes our ability to sustain them and repair them around the world. And we've got real limits right now.
Rick Scott (01:28:47):
According to the Navy, they provide the combatant commanders with 40% of their requirements, didn't make much sense. In business if one division they needed to deliver 40%, but it's work, we'd base that budget on the requirements needed. Do you think there's a different way we ought to be allocating resources?
General Caine (01:29:06):
Senator, I'm sorry, could you repeat the question again?
Rick Scott (01:29:09):
The combatant commanders, they're only getting a portion of what they're asking, is there a better way to allocate the resources?
General Caine (01:29:17):
Well, Senator, I appreciate the question. The challenge is that we have to globally integrate all the combatant commands and there's never a loss for tension between the COCOMs. What I trust is that the Joint Staff and the Joint Chiefs are looking carefully and thoughtfully considering where that balance is and then passing those options to the secretary for him to decide on where that allocation may be. Until we have such capacity that there's no need to do that, I think we're going to continue to balance those capabilities and capacities across all the COCOMs.
Rick Scott (01:29:56):
So my final question is, what drives you? Why do you want to do this? Let's say you did this for four years, what would your goal be at the end of those four years that you said, we got this accomplished?
General Caine (01:30:08):
Well, Senator, doing my part to make sure that we have a safe and prosperous United States of America. That the military element of power has delivered the deterrence capability that we needed to, and we've taken care of our families and our force along the way.
Rick Scott (01:30:26):
Thank you. You'll do a great job.
General Caine (01:30:28):
Thank you, Senator.
Rick Scott (01:30:29):
Thank you, [inaudible 01:30:30]. Thank you very much. Senator Mullin.
Markwayne Mullin (01:30:37):
Thank you Chairman, and thank you General for wanting to step back into service. Your retirement didn't last too long, and the idea that you're willing to jump back and serve just speaks volume to the true inner spirit that you have. And I want to thank you for doing that. You have made a tremendous amount of sacrifice already and you know, eyes wide open what this job is going to entail. You have some real challenges ahead of you.
(01:31:06)
And I want to start first talking about the defense industry. I know you're familiar with the so-called Last Supper in 1994 to where we basically encouraged our defense industry to consolidate. I'm a firm believer in looking back and looking at things of where it went wrong. Because since then, our defense industry really hasn't been to deliver on time and on budget on some of the most critical needs we have. We've seen from our planes in the air to our ships, in the shipyards, to the equipment that we're needing is constantly behind what we're needing. Today, when we ask for technology that's being used against us or that our adversaries have already may achieved. When we ask our defense industry to deliver it's five to seven years, if we're lucky, it's three, and yet it's never on time. Now you come from a unique position, being active, being reserved, and being in the private sector. I feel like that this is one of the biggest threats that we have. We have a technology need today, and it's being delivered five years from now. We are five years behind. Sir, how do you plan on tackling this? Because I do feel like this is the biggest threat to our military today.
General Caine (01:32:33):
Well, Senator, I agree. It's a huge problem. Technology is evolving so quickly that every time we field capabilities there, they're obsolete oftentimes when they hit the force. And that's not acceptable. I think it goes back to something that the chairman and I talked about at the beginning of the hearing, and that's related to having agility in our requirements and building a system of acquisition that allows us to take advantage of the current technologies, not those of the past. And so if confirmed, I'll work with the joint staff, the joint chiefs, and of course OSD, to pick up the speed, pace and tempo of fielding the capabilities that we need that are not obsolete.
Markwayne Mullin (01:33:14):
How do you plan on bringing private industry back in to actually go around some of our primes that are incapable of delivering in a quick fashion?
General Caine (01:33:26):
Well, Senator, I think we need a mix of both startups that are new entrants to the industry, but we also do need the primes. The answer is E, all of the above. There are components that the primes can only do and we have to leverage that capability. And then there's a bunch of things that new entrants will do to move forward. So I think the answer is, as I mentioned, all of the above.
Markwayne Mullin (01:33:52):
I agree that the primes are important, but they have failed miserably on staying on budget and on time and being adequate to delivering today's needs. I don't like rewarding those that have not delivered adequately when we've asked and we know that's been a problem. So holding them accountable is important.
(01:34:17)
Now I want to switch gears real quick about Afghanistan. It's deeply personal to me, and I know it is to you and anyone else that had the privilege of serving the nation in Afghanistan. But because our disastrous withdrawal, I feel like there's a hesitation in our military and our military family to actually step forward and make that again. I think there's a lot of doubt that the United States is able to stand behind what our first mission is and then to be able to bring pride to those that sacrificed. With that, brings a morale issue to those that are still serving, those are sometimes with the most experience in there, and I feel like we may be having a drain and knowledge of those that have sacrificed so much. How do you plan on retaining those and restoring that trust back in the military that says, Hey, we got you. We're not going to leave you on the battlefield, we're not going to let your sacrifice die, but we're going to let you walk away with a tremendous amount of pride knowing that your sacrifice meant something to this country?
General Caine (01:35:32):
Well, Senator, I appreciate the question. I think that's one of our most important jobs as leaders, whether it be at the chairman level or all the way down to the platoon leader level is inspiring those who serve, taking care of them always, but also making sure they know how much we appreciate them and their families and their service.
Markwayne Mullin (01:35:54):
But that doesn't address what happened.
General Caine (01:35:58):
Well, Senator, you mean in Afghanistan?
Markwayne Mullin (01:36:00):
Yes.
General Caine (01:36:02):
That withdrawal was not what anyone would've wanted. Very difficult circumstances. I think the officers on the ground did the best that they could with the policy decisions that were made. We mourned the loss of the 13 at Abbey Gate and we have to hold those accountable if there was something for them to be held accountable for. And I know the department is looking into that. But again, most of those professional military officers were executing the direction and orders of policymakers above them.
Markwayne Mullin (01:36:36):
Thank you.
Mr. Wicker (01:36:39):
General, is it accurate to say that Afghanistan was a forever war?
General Caine (01:36:48):
I'm not sure what the doctrinal definition of a forever war is, but it certainly took, it was a long, long time.
Mr. Wicker (01:36:56):
What was the engagement of NATO and American troops at the time of our disastrous withdrawal?
General Caine (01:37:12):
Well, sir, I think there were still US forces on the ground and still NATO forces on the ground. I'm not exactly sure what your question is.
Mr. Wicker (01:37:19):
Were there casualties?
General Caine (01:37:24):
At the very end? There were, yes, sir.
Mr. Wicker (01:37:26):
Oh no. In the last year before the disastrous withdrawal? There were no American casualties in that last year [inaudible 01:37:35]?
General Caine (01:37:34):
Not that I'm aware of sir. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wicker (01:37:37):
Thank you. Senator Gillibrand.
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:37:40):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you General Caine for being here. Thank you for your family, for their support of this appointment. Based on your understanding of relevant classification and authorities, do you believe that any of the information that was shared on the Signal chat was classified at the time it was sent? Particularly the details about timing of the target and for the manned US aircraft and other details related to the exact plan?
General Caine (01:38:11):
Senator, I didn't see the original con op. As I mentioned earlier in my testimony, I think we should always preserve the element of surprise. And that's a key and essential thing that we owe our war fighters.
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:38:24):
What would you have done if you were on that text chain?
General Caine (01:38:29):
Well, first I wasn't. And I think that was a political partisan text chain with policymakers at the political level only. So I can't hypothetically guess what I would've done, but we would not have-
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:38:47):
I wouldn't call that a political or partisan text chain. It had the head of intelligence, it had the head of CIA, it had our Secretary of Defense. It had the national security top advisors for the president. And to share that type of information, from a military perspective, I can't imagine if a subordinate of yours shared that type of military information in an unclassified setting such as a Signal text chain, they would be fired, would they not?
General Caine (01:39:17):
Well, Senator, as I mentioned earlier, I think the Chairman and Ranking Member have called for an investigation, and so I feel like it's appropriate for me to withhold comment until such time that it's either determined that there will be an investigation or not.
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:39:35):
Well, what would you do in a different scenario if you see classified information or war plans, information or tactical information on an unclassified chain? What would you do to stop the conversation?
General Caine (01:39:48):
Well, I think I would weigh in and stop it if I was a part of it, but in this case I wasn't.
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:39:54):
Thank you.
(01:39:55)
The worldwide proliferation of unmanned aerial systems is an undeniable national security threat, creating challenges in both funding and capability. How do you believe the department and joint force should approach these two challenges of funding and capability?
General Caine (01:40:16):
Well, Senator, it's definitely a big challenge in front of us. Mass and simultaneity, especially small UAS is one that is concerning to me, both from a technical standpoint, but also from a policy standpoint. As I'm sure you're aware, we have somewhat limited capabilities in some cases inside the US to stop some of these UASs. I think we have to continue to fund the research and development to counter them-
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:40:47):
Well, let's make it more direct to you. When you have drones hovering over Langley for a two-week period, appearing and disappearing without our technology being able to track or trace it, without having the authorities to follow the UAS to its point of departure and its point of return, that creates a serious national security risk if those UAS are indeed being operated by Russia, China, or Iran. So what will you do to protect the military bases and the military secrets that are under your purview?
General Caine (01:41:19):
Senator, if confirmed, I'll continue to put the appropriate amount of pressure and interest on that to work in conjunction with the commander of NORAD, NORTHCOM, General Guillot, who's doing a fantastic job on this issue and others to continue to work with the private sector to find the capabilities that we must have that we currently don't have to prevent this from happening again.
Kirsten E. Gillibrand (01:41:45):
Which capabilities don't you have? Do you lack the authorities or do you lack the technological capability?
General Caine (01:41:51):
Senator, I think it's a little bit of a mix of both. There are some authorities issues related to airspace directly over US military bases, and then transitioning
General Caine (01:42:00):
… transitioning outside of the geographical boundaries of that military base and who has cognizant authority over those small UASs at that point. And then, I think there's some technological challenges in the States around stopping them and actually downing them, there's always collateral damage concerns and those types of things.
Senator Gillibrand (01:42:20):
Will you seek the authority to be able to take down UASs above military bases?
General Caine (01:42:26):
If confirmed, I'll speak with the commander of NORAD, NORTHCOM and the relevant state and local authorities to make sure that we're illuminating those discussion points.
Senator Gillibrand (01:42:35):
Senator Cotton and I have legislation to do exactly that, and I would request that you review that legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Wicker (01:42:43):
Do you have co-sponsors, Senator?
Senator Gillibrand (01:42:46):
I don't know yet, but I can ask.
Senator Wicker (01:42:49):
Thank you very much. Senator Tuberville?
Senator Tuberville (01:42:50):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, General, for being here, your service, and congratulations on your nomination.
(01:42:59)
You're nominated to be the senior military advisor to the President of the United States, what a chore. I remember a time when generals and retired senior officers would avoid political discussions. It was extremely uncommon for a former senior officer to even endorse a candidate for political office. Lately, that approach seems to be an exception, not the rule. Some of your predecessors even appear to support political positions while in uniform. Your predecessor was deeply involved in politics, which should not be part of this approach. General Caine, in your own words, how would you describe to this committee the importance of your responsibility and commitment to provide the best military advice, even when that advice might differ from what the President of the United States believes?
General Caine (01:43:58):
Well, Senator, thank you for that question. It ultimately is the whole job is to be the principal military advisor to the President, and pursuant to that job, provide the President with the best military advice, even when the President may have different feelings about it, and that is exactly what the nation pays me to do. So if confirmed, that is exactly what I'll do.
Senator Tuberville (01:44:24):
General, when you take this job, what's your number one concern?
General Caine (01:44:30):
Senator, right now, the number one concern is the passage of time and ensuring that the Joint Force is ready, properly armed with the right capabilities out at the tactical edge, properly globally integrated with the services themselves, with the other elements of the interagency, with our allies and partners and with the private sector and ready to go tonight, and that means their families are ready, they're ready, they're properly trained and equipped. So we have much to do, Senator.
Senator Tuberville (01:45:06):
We all know that the machines that we build, the guns and the bullets that we have, everything at the disposal of the warfighter, but it's usually and is the people involved. Our recruiting has much improved in the last couple of months. What do you see your role as an advisor to the President in recruiting for all of our military?
General Caine (01:45:30):
Well, Senator, we don't have much of a military without the incredible 2.8 million members of the Joint Force that selflessly join the service to do something more important than themselves. And to answer your question, if confirmed, I think it's an opportunity for me to be another voice of encouragement for those young men and women who have the capability and meet the standards to come into the service and do something that they will forever hold so high in their past history. The chance to serve this nation is a special privilege for those of us that have come into the cloth of our nation and served, and I hope that I'll be able to encourage others to do so.
Senator Tuberville (01:46:14):
Being the chairman of the Subcommittee on Personnel and the Armed Services, we had a hearing last week with our West Point academies, Naval Academy and Air Force Academy. I would hope in the future, and I know your job is to inform our President and keep him advised of everything, but I think that your job too would be able to work with our academies in terms of our leadership, help build that leadership to a higher standard, to keep it to a higher standard, to build and let our young men and women know that that's where it all starts. If we don't have leadership, we don't have anything, and I think that's a good point to pass on to the President. Obviously, your information you give to the President is going to be number one, but also, help build our military is going to be going to be a huge part, I think, part of your job. What do you think?
General Caine (01:47:11):
I agree, Senator.
Senator Tuberville (01:47:13):
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Wicker (01:47:15):
Here, here. Senator Duckworth?
Senator Duckworth (01:47:18):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to begin by expressing my deep gratitude for the outstanding service of General Brown and so many other dedicated military leaders who were unjustly dismissed as part of a politically motivated purge of senior Department of Defense officials.
(01:47:32)
General Caine, I really enjoyed our conversations we've had recently over the last couple of weeks. If you are confirmed as chairman of the Joint Chiefs, you will serve as the President's principal military advisor and be expected to bring your military judgment to bear to advise against illegal, immoral and advisable courses of action, regardless of partisan pressure. However, we are in a moment where that very principle is under strain, such as with the dismissal of judge advocates general responsible for providing critical legal expertise because their counsel did not align with the political preferences of Secretary Hegseth. This pattern has had a chilling effect on the open, honest discourse essential to national security decision-making at the highest level.
(01:48:13)
Now, the lives of service members and future of our national security depend on expert qualified leaders who understand that their decisions have real life or death consequences. How will you insulate and empower general officers across the force to remain professional, and accordingly nonpartisan, and provide unbiased advice to civilian policy-makers without fear of coercion, undue partisanship or retaliation?
General Caine (01:48:38):
Well, Senator, thank you, I also enjoyed our time together. This is the whole job, this is why you and I both took our oath of office. It's what is contained in our commission and aligned with the Constitution. And so, that is what the nation expects out of our professional officer corps, and I'm sure what we'll continue to do moving forward in history.
Senator Duckworth (01:49:05):
And will you do your best to ensure that the general officer corps, those who give that advice, remain unbiased and nonpartisan?
General Caine (01:49:12):
Always.
Senator Duckworth (01:49:13):
Well, maybe biased on the side of the service members and national security.
General Caine (01:49:16):
Yes, ma'am, yes.
Senator Duckworth (01:49:18):
Yes, thank you. And it's great to see a guard guy at that table going through the confirmation hearing.
General Caine (01:49:26):
Thank you, ma'am.
Senator Duckworth (01:49:28):
You will also be the senior-most uniform officer entrusted with being a model and a leader for the Joint Force. Recently, we've witnessed troubling signs of blurred lines between private power and public trust, a striking lack of regard for protecting vital national security secrets, and the absence of accountability for top leadership, from Elon Musk receiving invitations for briefings on China to a pattern of mishandling classified information to Secretary Hegseth bringing family members into sensitive meetings with allies and partners, and very concerningly, we have also seen a concerted effort to skirt transparency to the American people on the use of force with decision-making being done over disappearing Signal chat. It seems like this administration is more interested in keeping secrets from the American people than protecting national security secrets for the American people.
(01:50:13)
You have experience running some of our most sensitive operations, so you know that even the need for secrecy to enable mission success does not mean skirting accountability to the American people. Do you commit to providing the legally required transparency to Congress and the American people over decisions related to the use of force, even in the face of pressure from civilian leadership?
General Caine (01:50:32):
I do, Senator.
Senator Duckworth (01:50:34):
Thank you. Another concerning focus of this administration has been to distract the military from its core mission of protecting the American people from external threats by redirecting military personnel, assets and platforms to domestic law enforcement missions. President Trump may have learned from his first term that asking one of your predecessors to deploy the military to fire on civilian protestors was a no-go, so instead, he has turned to form insidious tactics, linking criminal activities or undesired political speech to hostile governments, like Venezuela, or terrorist groups, like Hamas, in order to legitimize military involvement. In fact, this kind of threat inflation is exactly what dictators do.
(01:51:14)
The separation between military missions and civilian law enforcement is a core tenet of our democracy, and exists not only to protect the rights of American citizens, but also to preserve the integrity of our Armed Forces. When military personnel are thrust into law enforcement missions, it places them at risk of moral injury, of being asked or enforced partisan concerns rather than to defend the nation. It compromises not just their mission, but their conscience. What steps will you take to ensure that US military personnel or assets are not inappropriately used in law enforcement capacities that distract the military from its core mission, undermine readiness and threaten public trust?
General Caine (01:51:49):
Well, Senator, thank you for that question. I think there's strong legal systems in place that prevent any missteps there, it ranges from Title 32 authorities to Title 10 authorities, and have no reason to believe at this point that those are insufficient in any way.
Senator Duckworth (01:52:14):
Thank you. I would enjoy working with you, General.
General Caine (01:52:15):
Thank you, Senator.
Senator Duckworth (01:52:15):
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Wicker (01:52:18):
Thank you very much, Senator. Senator Sullivan?
Senator Sullivan (01:52:20):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to begin by agreeing with our ranking member and others, you, Lieutenant General Caine, on commending General C. Q. Brown for his exceptional four decades of service. I fully agree with the accolades he's receiving in this committee, and wish him and his family the best.
(01:52:43)
I've worked, served under, met with hundreds of flag officers in my positions as a US Senator, as a US Marine, and I will say, General, I think you are one of the most impressive flat officers I've met with, and I don't say that lightly. Like I said, I've met with hundreds. I think it's the combination of all the experiences, to Senator Duckworth's point, guard reserve, private sector. You're bringing a lot in here, and I think that's going to be very, very important.
(01:53:14)
I do want to touch on this topic that we're playing up a lot here on keeping politics out of our military. I couldn't agree more with that, I think it's really important. A big part of my career here, I've tried to make sure that happens. But I will say, we're not talking about what just happened the last four years. I think the military was politicized in a huge way, particularly from the civilian leaders who were pushing left-wing theories on the military, pushing climate change over ship building, the undersecretary for policy came before this committee and told us that our military is, quote, "systemically racist," it's ridiculous, right? Do you believe our military is systemically racist, is that what you saw in your 30-plus years of service?
General Caine (01:53:58):
No, sir.
Senator Sullivan (01:53:59):
So do you agree, just to make 100% sure, with the secretary of defense's testimony when he came here, that our military professionals, uniform professionals, need to remain apolitical and committed to our constitution, identify not as Republicans or Democrats, but warriors and leaders, is that your commitment?
General Caine (01:54:20):
It is, Senator.
Senator Sullivan (01:54:20):
And will you commit to this committee to doing that?
General Caine (01:54:22):
I will, Senator.
Senator Sullivan (01:54:23):
Thank you. I'm not going to let this hearing go by without a famous quote from the father of the US Air Force, Billy Mitchell, who was talking about a certain place in the world, he said, "Whoever controls this place controls the world, it is the most strategic place in the world." What place was Billy Mitchell talking about, General?
General Caine (01:54:43):
Alaska, sir.
Senator Sullivan (01:54:44):
And do you agree with Billy Mitchell's incredibly insightful analysis?
General Caine (01:54:49):
Mitchell was a brilliant air power theorist-
Senator Sullivan (01:54:51):
That's a yes, I assume you're saying?
General Caine (01:54:53):
… so yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Senator Sullivan (01:54:54):
Okay. Well, look, our adversaries agree. You and I talked about this in my office. Again, I appreciate the hearing. We've had huge incursions, a huge number of incursions in the last two years, joint Russian-Chinese strategic bomber task forces into our [inaudible 01:55:15] joint Russian-Chinese naval task forces into our EEZ up in Alaska. We are on the front lines of great power competition with regard to our adversaries. You and I talked about infrastructure in Alaska for our military. The President, after his election, said, "We will ensure Alaska gets even more defense investments as we rebuild our military," "Especially as Russia and China are making menacing moves in the North Pacific," that's from the commander-in-chief. The INDOPACOM commander, NORTHCOM commander, recently said that this very vital former naval base, Adak, is a former sub base, air base, huge fuel depot, one of the biggest fuel depots for our Navy in the world, we have a Navy team there right now this week looking at reopening that.
(01:56:10)
Can I get your commitment to work with this committee and me on infrastructure that can protect our northern flank? Because as the NORTHCOM commander recently testified, these incursions are only going to increase,
General Caine (01:56:23):
Yes, sir.
Senator Sullivan (01:56:25):
Let me talk about another issue that doesn't come up a lot. You talked about urgent action, reform to go faster, with greater efficiency, I think one of our unsung success stories in this regard is 8(a) contractors working with the Department of Defense. DoD can use these 8(a) contractors if they want, they don't have to, but they bring efficiency, speed, low-cost contracts and quality services. I saw a recent example of a integrated request from DoD to have a wheeled vehicle that can put a harpoon anti-ship system on it. This 8(a) contractor got it designed in two weeks, got it produced inside of 12 months, they're already in Taiwan, they're going to produce 20 more in 18 months. The OEMs, big primes, if they tried to do that, it would've taken them 10 years. Can you commit to me to continue to work with these small businesses that I think deliver readiness, efficiency and modernization?
General Caine (01:57:36):
I will, Senator.
Senator Sullivan (01:57:37):
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Wicker (01:57:38):
Thank you, Senator Sullivan. Without objection, that chart will be-
Senator Sullivan (01:57:43):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Wicker (01:57:43):
… copied into the record. Senator Rosen?
Senator Rosen (01:57:47):
Well, thank you, Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reed, for holding this hearing. My thanks to you, General Caine, for meeting with me, we had a great conversation about Nevada and for your willingness to serve.
(01:57:58)
But I'm going to keep on the subject of Nevada assets and documenting exposure at classified locations. And so, from your time as the director of special access programs, and from your own experience serving at a data masked location, a duty station whose location and existence is classified, you're familiar with the delicate balance between protecting sensitive information and ensuring that service members records actually reflect their service connected injuries at those sensitive or data masked locations. And so, I've heard from constituents who served at such locations, like the Nevada Test and Training Range, who believe they were exposed to radiation from our days of conducting explosive nuclear weapons testing and burn pits which dispose of classified waste.
(01:58:43)
However, DoD does not classify the range as a place where exposure occurred, despite the Department of Energy providing a presumption of exposure for their personnel who serve there at these exact same locations within the range, and because their service records are data masked, as you know, these veterans can't even prove to the VA that they were ever actually stationed there. And so, in fact, Nevada, there are six DoE covered facilities, most of which are within the Nevada Test and Training Range where DOE employees presumed to have been exposed to irradiation. But for our service members, the VA only recognizes one, the Nevada Test Site, as a presumed exposure location.
(01:59:29)
So one such facility that is covered for DoE but not for DoD is the Tonopah Test Range, which is both a DoE and Air Force installation. Portions of the range are still fenced off and contaminated. A 1975 environmental assessment acknowledged the contamination and the harm it would cause. But the airmen, they were never told, they do not have a presumption of exposure. As their DoE counterparts, they served alongside with due, and further adding insult to this, they can't even show that they were there. All of this have prevented them from being able to receive their well-deserved veterans' benefits. And I know we talked about this, we need to make this right, and I'm committed to fixing this problem in this year's NDAA. I hope that I can count on your support to making it happen.
(02:00:21)
So will you commit to working with me, of course, and the committee to find a solution that provides DoD the presumption of exposure at such data masked locations, and provides those who served and are serving at these locations a way to sufficiently document, sufficient documentation, so they can submit their health-related issues without ever compromising the security of their service details?
General Caine (02:00:46):
Senator, thank you for raising this in our office call and thank you for your leadership on this matter. I do think we owe our service members a way forward through these important jobs that they have that they can never talk about, and so I do commit to staying close with you on this matter and trying to sort out a way that we can help them transition, take the credit and the risk that they've bought in the service of their nation with them into the next chapter of their lives.
Senator Rosen (02:01:15):
Thank you, I appreciate it, and I know the men and women who serve there will be very pleased if we're able to do this, it really means a lot to them.
(02:01:25)
I just have about a minute left, so I want to just ask about the force of the future, because over the course of your service, you've gone through the rigors of actually training in Nevada skies, while stationed at Nellis Air Force Base, thank you. You know personally, our military readiness depends on meeting immediate war fighting needs while preparing for potential conflict our country might face. It requires evolving and changing how we train to fight, which is one of the reasons I fought so hard to make sure Nevada's military training ranges are modernized, keeping pace with emerging threats. So if confirmed, how would you prioritize investments in readiness and modernization and force structure, especially in these emerging domains, like cyber warfare and AI?
General Caine (02:02:10):
Well, Senator, we've got to train to the realistic threat in order to ensure that we're prepared if we ever do go into conflict. Part of that is making sure that our training ranges, either live, virtual or constructive, accurately replicate the threat so that our warfighters can train to the realistic threat. And I think we still have some work to do, both in our physical ranges and in our virtual ranges, and if confirmed, that'll be an area along the readiness line of effort that I spend some time on.
Senator Rosen (02:02:45):
Thank you, I look forward to working with you on that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
General Caine (02:02:46):
Thank, Senator.
Senator Wicker (02:02:47):
Thank you, Senator Rosen. Senator Budd?
Senator Budd (02:02:50):
Thank you, Chairman. General, it's good to see you again. Thanks for your willingness to serve. Enjoyed our meeting in my office last week, it was a great discussion.
(02:03:01)
Let's talk for a minute about China, their strategy for expanding their power. It's operated a lot using gray zone tactics or military and civil action somewhere between the boundaries of peace and war, and it's difficult to confront with conventional military force. Admiral Paparo, he stated that Special Operations Forces are crucial for competing in the gray zone, and that SOF is under-invested in the Pacific Command. Can you talk about your views on the role of SOF at all stages of conflict, and what investments should be made to grow these capabilities?
General Caine (02:03:39):
Well, Senator, thanks for that question. As somebody who's proudly been a part of the Special Operations Forces, I appreciate greatly the exponential return that those forces can provide to the nation. When I think about creating multiple dilemmas for Xi Jinping, many of those dilemmas are created through America's Special Operations Forces, where we build great partnerships, we help train our allies and partners, when required, we're able to execute sensitive missions that help us to illuminate the threat in a more thoughtful way. And so, I would agree with Admiral Paparo's views on SOF Forces in the Pacific, but would defer to General Fenton who probably has strong views on that, and if confirmed, I'll consult with him on these matters.
Senator Budd (02:04:34):
Thank you. I appreciate your commentary that they deliver an exponential return, I believe indeed they do. In your advanced policy questions, you underscore the importance of synchronization between the DoD and the intelligence community, how do you propose we do that?
General Caine (02:04:49):
Well, Senator, it really starts with trusting and deep relationships. I'm fortunate in my last job to have learned the value of making sure that the best of the Title 10 community is linked up with the best of the Title 50 community to get to almost "Title 60-like" outcomes. I realize that there is no Title 60, but I put that in quotation marks. And if confirmed, I'll continue with that pathway forward. We have an incredible associate director for military affairs at the CIA now, Lieutenant General Mike Downs, who carries on and is probably doing a much better job than I ever did over there, and so if confirmed, will continue to build on those relationships. And I think it extends beyond just the DoD and CIA relationship, it extends into the relationship that we have with the State Department, it extends into the relationship that we have with the other elements of the interagency as well.
Senator Budd (02:05:48):
Thank you. Also, in your advanced policy questions, you mentioned that the service chiefs and combatant commanders, they use our unfunded priorities list as essential tools in communicating to us here in Congress, in the areas where additional resources could significantly enhance military readiness and capabilities. You also state that unfunded priorities lists, they're not the only tool to build a strategy-informed defense budget. So where do you think the DoD is currently leveraging to align the defense budget and the defense strategy, and where's there room for improvement on that?
General Caine (02:06:25):
Well, sir, I'm not yet back in the service, so I need to read the current version of the National Defense Strategy if I'm-
Senator Budd (02:06:32):
Best guess outside looking in, sir.
General Caine (02:06:36):
I think we need to continue our efforts in the Pacific, and that would be my early read without actually being into the intel record.
Senator Budd (02:06:44):
Thank you. Last year, combatant commanders, they testified before this committee, speaking to the value and the relevance of the F-15E Strike Eagle and their respective areas of responsibility. So as a fighter pilot with extensive experience in combat and homeland defense missions, can you speak to the value and utility of the fourth-generation fleet, specifically the F-15E and the 16, which you flew, and whether you find it wise to reduce these inventories prior to taking delivery of the potential replacements? I guess it's the divest to invest strategy, if you'd comment on that, please.
General Caine (02:07:22):
Yes, sir. Thanks for that question. What we can't do is leave something uncovered in the interim. And when I think about at least the F-16, for example, they're predominantly tasked with homeland defense at this point in time. We can't ever let another 9/11 happen, so we have to make sure that we do not divest so much that we lose coverage in places that we must have to sustain that combat capability. We obviously need a probably fourth and fifth-gen and sixth-gen mix for a while, until we get to the point where we're all where we need to be in sixth-gen.
Senator Budd (02:07:58):
Thank you.
General Caine (02:07:58):
Thank you, sir.
Senator Wicker (02:08:03):
Yes, thank you very much. Senator Warren?
Senator Warren (02:08:08):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulations.
(02:08:12)
So if confirmed, you would serve as the principal military advisor to the President and swear an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. President Trump once described your predecessor, General C. Q. Brown as, quote, "An outstanding leader." And it's true, C. Q. Brown served for 40 years in seven assignments across four combatant commands. The President's removal of the only Black officer and removal of the only female officer from the Joint Chiefs of staff has sent a chilling message about who is and who is not welcome in our military. This worries me deeply about the future of our military and the defense of our nation.
(02:09:03)
I am also concerned that President Trump wants to turn the chairman of the Joint Chiefs into just another political position. Last year, President Trump claimed that you once said you would kill for him and then you slapped a MAGA hat on. I know that others have disputed that story, but it raises questions about whether you were selected because Donald Trump thinks that you would be loyal to him rather than to the Constitution of the United States. Secretary Hegseth has now removed the top legal advisors for military services and recommended replacements at a lower rank.
(02:09:45)
So Lieutenant General Caine, if confirmed, your job will be to present your best military advice. Do you agree that in order to be able to comply with the law, and make sure that your advice complies with the law, that military commanders need legal advisors with both enough expertise and a high enough rank that they will be listened to during this process?
General Caine (02:10:19):
I do, Senator. I know I've always had great legal advice regardless of what rank they were, but I do agree.
Senator Warren (02:10:25):
So you think that you need people who have good advice, but do you think it helps in making sure that others, I'm glad that you listened to good advice no matter where it comes from, but that others are more willing to listen if the people offering legal advice have high enough rank to carry some weight in the room when those decisions are taking place?
General Caine (02:10:48):
I do, Senator. Although, as I mentioned, I've sincerely had great legal advice from O-5s to O-7s, and I think it's the human, the officer, and their professionalism and intellect versus what rank they have. I do appreciate the efforts to ask the question about what rank they should be, but would defer to the secretary on what rank he would want them to be.
Senator Warren (02:11:20):
I have to say, that gives me some real concern, because the whole point of elevating the rank was the concern that not enough people were listening to good legal advice. And while I appreciate that you say you listen, we need people to listen who are making decisions up and down the line.
(02:11:40)
I understand, Lieutenant General Caine, that the circumstances of your nomination are beyond your control, but they also place a significant burden on you to show leadership, to restore public confidence in the military, and to show that you work for the American people. I've long been concerned by senior Pentagon leaders who trade on their time in public service to cash out afterwards to work for defense contractors, and that is why, during his confirmation hearing, General Brown agreed that he would not become a lobbyist or join the board of a defense contractor after he resigned.
(02:12:22)
Lieutenant General Caine, are you willing to demonstrate that you're taking this job to serve the American people, and commit that after you leave this job, you will not work for any major defense contractors or companies that are affected by your official actions?
General Caine (02:12:38):
Senator, for myself, I've got no intent to do so.
Senator Warren (02:12:40):
Okay. So you can commit to that?
General Caine (02:12:40):
Yes, Senator, that's not my intent.
Senator Warren (02:12:47):
President Trump's removal of highly qualified and talented military leaders is a permanent stain on this nation's history, as well as a blow to our ability to recruit the force that we need to compete with China. If confirmed, you'll have an important responsibility to show the American people that you'll defend our nation with integrity, that you will follow the law, and that you will lead our men and women in uniform with integrity. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Wicker (02:13:20):
Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator. And we'll now move to Senator Schmitt.
Senator Schmitt (02:13:28):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see you again, General, congratulations. I think you've… Well, let me first start by saying, I think the people who talk the most about making sure you give advice to President Trump have no experience with President Trump, interpersonally, I should say. And he does seek out advice, among a lot of people, and I think that your background and your experience will be invaluable to him as he asks tough questions and you give honest advice, as you've committed here today. Anyway, I think the dynamic's going to be great, I think your background and experience really prepare you very well for this important role.
(02:14:15)
So I wanted to ask you about a couple of things where I think that your experience will play an important role in specific decisions. So this great powers competition that we are with China. I was really happy to see President Trump and Secretary Hegseth move quickly on NGAD and not just deciding that we were going to move forward with next-generation air dominance, but actually selecting the F-47 so we can move forward on this. I think that was a bold stroke of leadership and decisiveness that we need right now. That aircraft will see further, go faster, carry bigger payloads, which matter a lot in the Indo-Pacific, and with your experience, I know that you can appreciate that.
(02:14:59)
But one of the big challenges we have, has been mentioned by a few already, is just the inability for us to go from point A to point B. When we recognize a problem, how do we solve the problem? Everyone recognizes that it's an issue, but we haven't made a whole lot of progress up until this point. I believe there is a commitment to do something about it, you and I talked about this at our office. In your view, what would we do differently if we were at war right now? If we actually live rounds, we're at war, what would we do differently than we're doing right now on the procurement side and the execution side?
General Caine (02:15:41):
Well, Senator, thanks for the question. The chairman's bill builds on a book that was written about the defense industrial base back in the mid '30s, and I think if we were in a gunfight at this point in time, we'd be doing a lot more
General Caine (02:16:00):
… With a greater sense of urgency than we probably have right now. And if I'm confirmed, I'll carry that sense of urgency that I think we share, into the department and into the joint force to make sure that we do not end up in a case where our young war fighters do not have the kit that they need prior to them needing it.
Senator Schmitt (02:16:18):
Yeah, that overwhelming force that we need to have, that advantage that we have is just critical. And the concern that I have is that we talk a lot about it, but it's, we have to move forward on this, we have to move forward.
(02:16:32)
So again, before I run out of time. Again, your experience, varied experience in the military and now outside, I think give you a glimpse of one of the challenges that we face too. So Missouri, this is sort of a Missouri asset here, is the home of Whiteman Air Force Base, which is more broadly known as the home of the B-2 stealth bomber and soon to be the B-21, but the four 442nd fighter wing is also there, and the 442nd fighter wing, like many of these units, punch above its weight class, has flown the A-10 in combat missions for decades. The A-10 is going away, and I think there's a frustration that there hasn't been a follow on mission named here. And we talked about this in my office and there's opportunities, whether it's in the short term, the F-15E and eventually the F-15EX. The real danger is that because we've delayed these decisions, these experienced maintainers and pilots, they go somewhere else. Right? They just don't have the certainty of knowing that there's going to be a follow on mission.
(02:17:39)
Will you work with my office and the folks that are responsible for these decisions? We just have to start making these decisions more decisively and timely, and I think that Whiteman stands right in the front of that line.
General Caine (02:17:53):
Sir, I will, but I want to make sure I bring the Air Force leadership-
Senator Schmitt (02:17:57):
Absolutely.
General Caine (02:17:58):
… into that conversation as well. I've got very little throw weight on those decisions. [inaudible 02:18:02].
Senator Schmitt (02:18:02):
No, I know, but you're going to be in an important spot.
General Caine (02:18:04):
Yes, sir.
Senator Schmitt (02:18:06):
And I think recognizing strategically that this is important, and we've had conversations with the Air Force about this as well.
General Caine (02:18:10):
Yes, sir.
Senator Schmitt (02:18:12):
I guess with the last remaining seconds I have, I'll just sort of, our view of this great powers competition with China. What are some things that we need to get better at? What are some things that we need to do to prepare as we shift and pivot to Asia, and so many people talked about, in the Indo-Pacific?
General Caine (02:18:36):
Sir, with deep respect for the question, that's a pretty big question.
Senator Schmitt (02:18:40):
What's the most important thing? The one thing.
General Caine (02:18:45):
Probably taking advantage of the time that we have, as I mentioned earlier in my testimony. Making sure that we're moving with the speed, precision, sense of urgency to get the kit that we need. The challenges range from contested logistics, to long-range fires, to command and control. So, it's a much deeper conversation center.
Senator Schmitt (02:19:02):
Well, thank you. Look forward to working with you. Congratulations.
Mr. Wicker (02:19:04):
Will you supplement that on the record then, General, because it was a very intricate question that was sprung on you with 10 seconds to go.
General Caine (02:19:15):
Yes, sir, and you want me to do that now, I assume, Chairman?
Mr. Wicker (02:19:19):
No, no. Just take it for the record.
General Caine (02:19:20):
Okay, yes, sir. Got it.
Mr. Wicker (02:19:21):
Thank you very much.
General Caine (02:19:22):
I'm getting some signals from behind you, so.
Mr. Wicker (02:19:24):
Right, and Senator Kelly.
Senator Mark Kelly (02:19:26):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'm going to follow up on Senator Schmitt's question in my second part if I have time, because I think that is the big question of the day is, how do we handle the challenges we'll face in the Western Pacific? General Caine, first of all, congratulations on your nomination, it's a very important role.
(02:19:49)
First, I want to talk a little bit about General Milley. So as a career military officer, lifelong public servant who served in this role as chairman under President Trump and President Biden, he's now facing an investigation by this administration and possible demotion. This is allegedly because he, in coordination with the then Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, made phone calls to Chinese military officials to reassure them that the United States was not going to launch an attack preventing unnecessary conflict. General Milley did this out of a deep respect and commitment to the constitution of the United States, in my view. I asked about this in my office when we met privately, but I want to ask in this public setting. If you are confirmed and sworn into this position, to whom or what do you swear an oath to?
General Caine (02:20:47):
Senator, as I have for 34 years, it's to the constitution.
Senator Mark Kelly (02:20:52):
Thank you. And setting aside the specifics of this scenario, if necessary, will you choose the right thing to do, even if it's hard, over the easier, wrong option?
General Caine (02:21:04):
Senator, I've always strived to do the right thing and that's not going to change now.
Senator Mark Kelly (02:21:09):
Thank you, General, and are you willing to get fired from this job for doing the right thing and following the constitution?
General Caine (02:21:16):
I am.
Senator Mark Kelly (02:21:18):
Thank you, General. So back to what Senator Schmitt was getting at, part of what he wanted to discuss.
(02:21:27)
So, I want to switch gears here and go back to INDOPACOM, force projection, repositioning of forces, and resource requirements. I think you mentioned TRANSCOM, they play a vital role in projecting forces from the United States into INDOPACOM. And that's why I'm reintroducing the Ships for America Act, which is a bipartisan bill aimed at strengthening our commercial shipping base, which would have the added benefit of giving our combatant commanders additional sea lift capability, so we can rapidly respond in crisis and in conflict. If confirmed, what will you recommend to the Secretary of Defense and the president to ensure our industrial shipbuilding base, from forging supply chains and production are ready for competition in crisis?
General Caine (02:22:21):
Well, Senator, I'm not in the job yet and I'm not back in the service yet, but if confirmed, I'd like to take that one for study and come back to you.
Senator Mark Kelly (02:22:34):
As you know, it's a logistical problem. 5,000 miles of ocean, the Chinese, if we wind up in a conflict in the Western Pacific, they've got to go just hundreds of miles to resupply their forces. So, I appreciate you being willing to take a look at it.
(02:22:56)
One last topic. I want to talk about efforts across the department to modernize our acquisition process. And this is a topic that I'm focused on as the co-chair of the Defense Modernization Caucus. Our system is too slow, it's too unwieldy, and it can't modernize currently at the pace of China. We currently cannot match them on how fast we can innovate. So, we need to foster an ecosystem change that encourages some risk from small businesses so they can innovate faster, and ensures that if a technology meets a current demand signal, we have an effective mechanism to bridge the testing and evaluation gap that often exists to get that stuff over to production. So General, if confirmed, what changes will you recommend to the secretary and the president to ensure that we take advantage of smaller innovative companies and acquire at the speed that technology is moving forward?
General Caine (02:24:03):
Well, Senator, it's, we've got to have everyone weighing in, small businesses, new entrants, and even the primes. The ability to bring advanced technologies from new companies, startups, into the joint force and make it easier for them to bring their products and services into the military, is something that I'm passionate about, given my background and experience. If confirmed, I think that that'll be an area where I spend some time on. I know I'm out of time.
Senator Mark Kelly (02:24:35):
All right, thank you. Thank you, General. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wicker (02:24:38):
Thank you very much. Senator Banks.
Senator Jim Banks (02:24:40):
General Caine, congratulations on your nomination and thank you for being willing to come out of retirement and serve your country in this most significant way. I look forward to having a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs whose only focus is national security, but you have a hard road ahead of you. As you and I discussed before, General Milley modeled inappropriate and political behavior to a whole generation of officers, and it's why I fully support President Trump's decision to relieve General CQ Brown and the unconventional decision to go beyond the usual four-star choices and pick an outsider like you for this most important role.
(02:25:22)
You spent much of your military career outside of Washington DC, not exclusively inside of the Pentagon. And because of this you have a much better understanding of what's important to our war fighters and to the average American. You also know that the National Guard often gets the short end of the stick in the budget fights. And having a chairman who properly appreciates the importance of the guard is critical. So because of all of that, I can't wait to get you confirmed as soon as possible.
(02:25:52)
And I want to go back and talk for a moment. As I said before, General Milley was the most political chairman of the Joint Chiefs that I believe that we've ever had. He actively undermined his commander-in-chief. General Milley admitted to calling Speaker Pelosi and disparaging President Trump's mental fitness and questioning his nuclear command authority. That was completely inappropriate and unacceptable. And General Caine, I want to ask you, how will you communicate differently than that with congressional leadership?
General Caine (02:26:23):
Well, Senator, I'm committed to open and transparent communication, but the first duty of the chairman is the advisor to the president, and so I would flow through that chain of command while providing always options to the president.
Mr. Wicker (02:26:39):
[inaudible 02:26:40].
Senator Jim Banks (02:26:40):
General Milley admitted that under his watch the Pentagon wasted nearly six million man-hours on DEI and woke trainings. Milley also testified to me before the House Armed Services Committee, that he wanted to read more about critical race theory and understand white rage. Under your leadership, General Caine, what kind of training can we expect our service members should be focused on?
General Caine (02:27:06):
War fighting, lethality, and readiness.
Senator Jim Banks (02:27:12):
General Milley was also the chairman during the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal, and as a veteran of the war in Afghanistan, this is very personal to me. Under his watch, there was no accountability at all for the deaths of American heroes at Abbey Gate, no accountability for the chaos at the Kabul Airport, and no accountability for leaving Americans behind. When military failure and incompetence result in the death of US troops, do you agree that the officers in charge must be held accountable?
General Caine (02:27:43):
Well, Senator, I appreciate the question. The Afghanistan withdrawal was not anything anybody would've wanted. It was very difficult circumstances and the officers on the ground had very little to do with the policies that they were directed to follow, and we all mourned the 13 lost at Abbey Gate. Those officers, I'm sure, did the best in a situation that was not of their making. Certainly, accountability is an important tenant in the United States, but I hope that we consider the fact that those officers were just doing the duties that they were assigned to do.
Senator Jim Banks (02:28:19):
You do agree though, accountability matters.
General Caine (02:28:21):
I do.
Senator Jim Banks (02:28:21):
We should always learn from our mistakes and hold those accountable, who made those mistakes?
General Caine (02:28:24):
I do, sir.
Senator Jim Banks (02:28:25):
General Milley told his aides that President Trump was preaching, "The gospel of the Fuhrer." I asked General CQ Brown last year before the House Armed Services Committee if that was inappropriate, and even General CQ Brown agreed publicly under oath before that committee that that was a very inappropriate statement by General Milley. Do you agree with General Brown, that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs should never disparage the commander in chief, the President of the United States of America?
General Caine (02:28:53):
I do, Senator.
Senator Jim Banks (02:28:55):
When he was chairman, General Milley testified that he "Does interviews regularly with print media, books, documentaries, video, on TV," because, "It is a part of a senior official's job." Milley also said he talked to the media two, three, four times a week. Do you think that's an appropriate use of the chairman's job?
General Caine (02:29:17):
Senator, I just if confirmed, I'll spend my time focused on the essential tasks in front of me.
Senator Jim Banks (02:29:24):
My last question. General Milley promised Chinese generals without the president's knowledge that he'd warned them if the United States was about to attack. Do you think it's inappropriate or appropriate for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to warn our greatest adversary when we're about to attack or what we might do?
General Caine (02:29:41):
No, sir.
Senator Jim Banks (02:29:42):
Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Wicker (02:29:45):
Thank you. I guess that does it. No, Senator Slotkin, you're recognized.
Senator Elissa Slotkin (02:29:50):
Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. I apologize for being late. I just got off a plane, we've had some weather issues and some follow-up weather issues. I apologize. Congratulations, happy to see you here. You're almost done. I'm between you and being done, so I'm aware of that. I just wanted to make sure we all are on the same page.
(02:30:10)
The Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986 is what established in law that the chairman is the principal military advisor to the president, also to the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Council. It mandates that you provide strategic direction to the armed forces, oversee strategic planning, program recommendations, budget proposals. It gives you a very big purview, and I think President Trump even issued a memorandum on Inauguration Day that the chairman be a part of the National Security Council meetings at the highest level in the White House. So, that's an extremely important role, especially now.
(02:30:54)
We've talked, I've heard that other members talked about the fact that there was no Joint Chief representative in this signal chain about military operations, imminent military operations, and I want you in those rooms giving your best military advice to anyone. I was keenly aware that all the decision-makers on that chain were all political appointees. There was not a single person there that was there just as a representative, as a military officer. There was no COCOM commander, there was nothing, and that I don't think missed anybody's notice. Will you, if confirmed, make a point to get into the rooms where military operations are being discussed, planned at the strategic level? And when advice to the president is being given about the confidence in those military plans, will you push to be in that room?
General Caine (02:31:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Elissa Slotkin (02:31:59):
Good. We want you there. I've asked a number of folks who have come up here, very similar questions, and former people who have sat in that chair, about the importance that I put in swearing an oath to the Constitution of the United States, not to any one president, not to any political leader. You will swear an oath. You've done it many times before, this is not uncommon for you and your extensive experience. And I have asked all of these appointees or these nominees to say if the president asked you to do something that was unconstitutional, to use the military in a way that was unconstitutional, to put military into the streets of our cities or policing and performing law enforcement roles, which they are not trained for, etc, etc. If he asks you to do that, will you push back and lay down the law on behalf of the Constitution, not for the president's whims?
General Caine (02:33:07):
I will, Senator. I don't expect that to happen, but of course, I would.
Senator Elissa Slotkin (02:33:11):
Well, we don't expect it to happen, but it did happen under the Trump Administration the first time. Secretary Esper was asked to bring in the 82nd airborne active duty military troops to put down a peaceful protest in Washington DC and in his own book he wrote that he convinced President Trump in the dark of night not to do that. I don't need it to be public, I don't need you to have a public fight with President Trump. I'm not asking that. I'm asking in the same exact situation, would you act honorably in the same way and protect the rules of the road for the U.S. military to protect the institution you've given your life for? And make sure that this country doesn't see their uniform military as a political arm of any one party. Will you stand up and push back, similarly to Secretary Esper?
General Caine (02:34:04):
Senator, I think that's the duty and job that I have, yes.
Senator Elissa Slotkin (02:34:08):
Well, I appreciate that. I think there's lots of other important work. We all want you to be focused on the war fighter. Can you confirm for me though, because these reports that keep coming out of Department of Defense and uniform military press outlets taking down Jackie Robinson's page and his service to the country. The Tuskegee Airmen which have such a connection to Detroit, Michigan, they're taken down, they're putting back up. Can you confirm that war heroes, no matter what their color should be recognized by the Department of Defense, and it's not some damn DEI thing to recognize warriors of color?
General Caine (02:34:51):
Ma'am, I think we should always recognize warriors, period.
Senator Elissa Slotkin (02:34:55):
Okay, well I hope you uphold that as this ridiculousness continues of taking people and erasing them from our military history. It's really, to me, offensive. But we look forward to you standing up for those good values. Thank you for your work and I yield back.
Mr. Wicker (02:35:10):
Thank you Senator, and this concludes today's hearing. I want to thank our distinguished witness for his testimony. And without anything further, we are indeed adjourned.
