Sky Dylan-Robbins

Kendell Kelton (00:01):

Hi, I'm Kendell Kelton and I'm your host today on the Rough Draft. Featuring honest conversations with folks from across the creative industry, the Rough Draft explores the creative process, tools and resources used by some of the best in the business. From journalists to content creators and business leaders, we shed light on what it looks like to break into the industry, make mistakes, collaborate with others, and the essential tools that help us all along the way.

(00:23):

This week I'm super excited to be talking with Sky Dylan-Robbins, an award-winning non-fiction video producer and filmmaker. Not to mention media entrepreneur. Sky has worked for ABC News and The New Yorker. She's also the founder and executive director of the Video Consortium, a global non-profit media organization that connects and supports non-fiction filmmakers and video journalists to tell bold stories that change the world. All right. Hi, Sky.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (01:01):

Hi, Kendell.

Kendell Kelton (01:02):

Hi. Welcome to the Rough Draft.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (01:05):

Thanks for having me. Big fan of Rough and all that you all do.

Kendell Kelton (01:08):

Yeah. So we're so excited to dive into your career as a non-fiction video storyteller, producer, journalist, all of the things. What initially inspired you to pursue journalism, and then later, as I just mentioned, non-fiction video?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (01:29):

This sounds a little woo-woo to open the-

Kendell Kelton (01:32):

We love woo-woo.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (01:34):

But I feel like we're all here for a reason, to help each other and help the world in some capacity and I feel like my method or medium is through visual media, so to speak. And so I've always wanted to be in the media and work in it and use stories to help change people's minds and wake people up, et cetera. So I ended up after college applying for an executive assistant role at Tumblr. Got it.

(02:01):

Ended up transitioning per crazy things that happened in the startup world to launch an editorial magazine, so to speak, at Tumblr when it was super hot. Did that with some journalists for a couple of years and ended up transitioning at just the right time to The New Yorker when they were just starting to pursue video and learned how to do journalism ethics, how to tell great stories from all the great writers there, and went over it to NBC and helped start a doc unit over there, and along the way started VC and here we are.

Kendell Kelton (02:37):

And you just mentioned the Video Consortium, which I think you founded it in 2015, correct?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (02:42):

Yes.

Kendell Kelton (02:42):

So I want to talk a bit about why you founded it, if you don't mind digging in.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (02:46):

Sure. At one point, I was the only full video hire at The New Yorker, and there was this whole experimentation thing going on, but there was one point where I was sitting at my desk and I had this internal epiphany. I was like, "Where are all the other people who are doing what I'm doing?" Because there were the amazing writers and all the other people at the magazine, the photo folks and the multimedia folks, but no one was really doing video. And so I ended up sending an email.

(03:16):

I think the subject line was the producer circle, and I sent it to some people at Vox and the New York Times and independent people who I knew, like 20 people. And I was like, "Guys, let's talk about the industry and go to a bar and whatever." So there was a desire for more community and the idea of pushing things forward collectively. And someone ended up going to L.A. starting a chapter, et cetera, et cetera, and it snowballed from there, but the whole ethos of it was the creative process is hard. Let's work together to do it. Innovation happens when people are in community together then it's evolved from there.

Kendell Kelton (03:58):

Well, and it's involved to chapters all over the world. And how many members now?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (04:04):

It's a vetted community, and we have about 5,000 members now.

Kendell Kelton (04:07):

5,000.

(04:09):

So for those who aren't necessarily familiar with VC, which is the acronym for it, do you mind explaining it a bit more? And then also nonfiction video, what that actually means?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (04:22):

The Video Consortium is essentially we're a global nonprofit, but we're also a global community, and we support and connect video journalists and documentary filmmakers around the world to give them the tools and the community and the connections, allowing people to get the tools that they need to tell stories that catalyze change and wake people up, so to speak. And it's really evolved over these past 10 years with the changing tides of the media industry too, of course. And when VC started, I would say the vast majority within the first few years, most of our members were staff. Now the vast majority, I think it's like 70 or 80% are independent.

(05:06):

And as the industry changes it's there's more of a need for a support system than ever and so we're really trying to fill that gap. Just in terms of nonfiction video, we have been saying nonfiction video because our community and the people in terms of what they do and what they make, it marries the world of journalism, like hardcore journalism with documentary filmmaking and everything that comes with that, plus the idea that, as we all know with social media, things are changing. We're experimenting. There's VR, there's social first stuff and so we have been using the term nonfiction video to hopefully encapsulate all that-

Kendell Kelton (05:46):

Got it.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (05:47):

... video can do that is focused on the truth.

Kendell Kelton (05:50):

You mentioned everything's flipped from being, you're either a full-time staff member or part-time to now being heavily weighted on the freelancer independence side, because as everyone who's read the news, layoffs have happened year over year. I want to talk about what are those challenges facing video producers and journalists and documentarians today that seem very top of mind for your group?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (06:17):

Well, I mean, there are so many, right? The whole world is changing with AI and all of that. I think a lot of people will agree that we've gotten really good at making stuff. There's awesome technology that's easy to get your hands on. You can make a beautiful film with a phone. The pieces are there. The biggest issue it seems is there's so much content. "Content." Some people hate that word, but there's so much stuff. And so the big question that a lot of us at VC are asking ourselves is, how do we effectively get these great important stories out there?

(06:53):

The distribution models are screwed up. Challenge number one it's you make a thing how do you get your money back? And how do you also get it out there in an effective way? And then of course, layoffs are happening at big companies, and that is just continuing and ad revenue is screwed up and so there's so many issues that are happening, but at the same time, it's like, what is the term? No mud, no lotus. Things are changing and we need to figure out a new way. And I'm optimistic that there is a different path forward, but we just need to put our heads together and innovate.

Kendell Kelton (07:34):

Is there anything that you have seen in the market right now that you're like, "That's actually a good idea."? Are there any hopes that you see, hopefully in the short term on that point, or are you like, "I don't know, we just got to keep thinking about it."?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (07:50):

Yeah. Well, in terms of journalism on a local level we've all heard that newspapers are dying, news deserts are everywhere, et cetera, et cetera. There is a curiosity among-

Sky Dylan-Robbins (08:03):

... et cetera, et cetera. There is a curiosity amongst a lot of old paradigm, current paradigm models of newspapers that want to figure out new ways of reaching their audiences. We are launching a program that's bringing local newspapers across the country together, and we're going to help them do video better. And that happens in the fall. But the point is there is a desire, and there are interesting case studies of newspapers telling their stories for a younger audience, and reaching people, and being able to sell against that. So journalism, there's that.

(08:34):

In terms of doc, there have been a few instances of really interesting self-distribution models that people have been doing. Impact producing is hot right now, but if we can do that more and better and figure out better systems for that, I feel like that has potential too.

Kendell Kelton (08:54):

Do you mind explaining impact producing? Because I don't even know what that means.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (08:57):

Yeah, exactly.

Kendell Kelton (08:58):

Yeah.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (08:58):

Right. So most creative filmmaker people, and I'm part of that category, it's like you're so excited about making a film. You work so hard. And then you export the final thing and you think that you're done, and really that's not the case. It's like half of your work is done. We, as creative people, filmmakers, journalists, so often we don't think about, or just have access, to the tools in terms of business marketing. What happens after? How do you sell your thing? So impact producing goes back to this idea of having a really exciting, and different, and strategic plan for your story. And so impact producing can be everything from screenings to online penetration.

Kendell Kelton (09:49):

And I imagine that even brings more of an emphasis on why having a supportive community is so important.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (09:58):

Totally. Totally, Kendall. Yeah.

Kendell Kelton (10:00):

Before we move on, I want to touch on that community and what has been the most special part of the VC these last almost 10 years?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (10:12):

The ways that I've seen people benefit from being in community with others within the context of VC are innumerable. I mean, it goes from getting the job of your dreams to finding someone posting a job, like a gig to crew up for something, and someone getting hired, and then those two people collaborating for years to come. Or a director and a producer meeting at a local gathering that we had, and then seeing that, four years later, they're working on their second feature together and it just got bought by X, Y, Z platform. That stuff happens all the time. I would say that now, we're more connected, but we're also more isolated. And figuring out new ways to help people connect with each other in meaningful ways online is our next big challenge that we're thinking about. And then as we get bigger as an organization, on a global level, doubling down on regional and super local connections.

Kendell Kelton (11:18):

So we've talked a lot about nonfiction, video production, the VC. So I want to dive into your creative process. So how do you, and this might be a loaded question, but how do you approach bringing your ideas to life?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (11:40):

Great question. Well, I spent the first decade of my career making stuff and actually producing, telling stories, so to speak. And now I've transitioned more, within the context of the video consortium, into infrastructure building. And so not exactly telling actual stories, but orchestrating organizational development, so to speak.

Kendell Kelton (12:02):

Yeah.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (12:02):

So within both, I would say that organization has been a key thing in both realms. To-do lists or my number one. I can get really overwhelmed up here, and as long as I have a pen and paper and I write down bullet points of what I need to do, and can check things off a list, I feel like that's my biggest tool.

Kendell Kelton (12:25):

When we were doing the prep for this, you had also mentioned that exercise and meditation are important parts of your creative routine. So I think everybody has that thing. I love to go for walks. It helps break up the monotony of the day and helps clear things up in my head. But how do you think those habits have influenced your productivity or creativity, so to speak?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (12:51):

Yeah, no, everyone has their flow, right?

Kendell Kelton (12:55):

Yeah.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (12:55):

And their prep, like their pre-gaming situation. And I think mine just, I've gotten into a cadence of needing to have inner cleansing and outer cleansing, so to speak, every morning. It's like we so often focus on the external. But going to the gym is great, but if you don't go to the gym in your mind, then you're screwed.

Kendell Kelton (13:18):

That's fair. If you're thinking about the rest of your day, are you actually focused in on everything else? That's a good point.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (13:26):

Exactly. And being in the moment, right? Vigorous exercise to sweat out the day before, and meditation, and a lot of coffee. If I don't do those three things in the morning, the rest of my day is kind of off. What about you? What's your thing?

Kendell Kelton (13:41):

I have a four and a half year old, and he is an early riser.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (13:45):

Oh my gosh.

Kendell Kelton (13:46):

And once he's up, he is like, "We're partying, we're up." So it's going to sound a little wild, but if I don't wake up early and have just an hour, it could be just walking your dog or maybe it's working out, but if I don't have that hour before, it really shoots the rest of my day. Because I get up and all of a sudden-

Sky Dylan-Robbins (14:06):

You're at it.

Kendell Kelton (14:07):

... you're expelling energy with your kid. Or it could be a pet too, whoever you are. And then you're transitioning to work and then you get home, and it's back to the kid. And then you got to go to sleep. So I have to have that morning, whatever that is, just to have my moment.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (14:25):

Yeah, yeah. Amen. I love that.

Kendell Kelton (14:29):

Well, but I also think something you brought up about pen and paper, it's so interesting because we have so many tools at our disposal, right? We have phones that can record things for you, like the rise of AI and ChatGPT, and all these other things. But there is still something very special about just those instrumental physical tools, like a pen and a paper. And I wanted to know how are you balancing these influx of the new things coming out, especially as you are more in that operational mindset and probably thinking through ways in which your community can work more efficiently. How do you balance all of the new things coming out with those, but at the end of the day, we're all humans and we don't want to lose sight on it?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (15:17):

Those fundamental aspects of the core things that bring you back to, am I doing this effectively? Like pen and paper. And then one can't discount the idea of having a team of people that you work with and that you trust. I'm a big believer in always trying to surround myself by people who are smarter than me. I'm working really hard, as VC grows, to learn how to delegate better, or pass things off and then step back. That's been a really big thing. But every now and then, getting back to the present and thinking about what are the buckets of things and trying to organize things in my mind instead of having this tornado going on all the time and segmenting how to do things. And segmenting blocks-

Sky Dylan-Robbins (16:03):

Segmenting how to do things, segmenting blocks of time to do things in, and then just trusting your colleagues. Those are all big things.

Kendell Kelton (16:11):

So then for someone who may be just starting out in nonfiction video, what advice do you have for them? Especially considering... We talked previously about challenges, and the speed at which people are moving, and if they need to potentially pursue independent or local. Not everyone's going to all of a sudden get a gig at The New York Times overnight, right?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (16:38):

Yeah.

Kendell Kelton (16:38):

So what is your biggest advice for them in terms of starting out their career?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (16:44):

And this is in terms of producing content?

Kendell Kelton (16:45):

Yeah. Yeah.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (16:48):

It's a great question. Everything's changing so much. The fundamentals though, of being the kind of person that people want to work with, and then having great work, I think those two things are fundamental. The idea of learning how to... Networking is such a terrible word. But knowing that community is important, that connections are really important, and making sure that you follow up with people all the time, and send a thank you note, and be curious. Don't just talk at people, listen, whether it's an interview or otherwise, and not feel like you're in a networking situation.

(17:34):

Having that social emotional awareness to just not be like, "Oh my gosh, I see that person. I want to make a connection with them so that I can get a job." It's like, "Let me hear where they are and have this be a really good exchange, and let them know that I'm a good listener." As a human business person evolving your career, I feel like those are really fundamental. And then just in terms of letting the work speak for itself, practicing, whether you have access to a camera or not. If you want to go down the producing route, getting advice, being open to critique, always trying to improve your work and experiment with new things, especially as the industry changes.

Kendell Kelton (18:17):

But it sounds like it's... The big takeaways for me in what you just said were, be curious. Take a moment to listen before just bombarding with questions that may come across as self-serving. So it's listen, curiosity, and community. Don't doubt the power of many. Don't think you always have to do things on your own.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (18:42):

Totally. I will say, and it changes for everyone, almost all of my jobs have come through personal connections, or me applying for something and then saying, "Hey, can you write a letter of recommendation for me, because I know this person who knows this person? That's always a really powerful thing to do no matter where you are, because people trust the people who they know.

Kendell Kelton (19:07):

I know I was saying, it's harder than it sounds. But the difference between where I was in my career almost 20 years ago and now, there's things like LinkedIn. It's very easy to find out if you have a connection somewhere.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (19:20):

Totally.

Kendell Kelton (19:20):

At least easier. Now, there's intimidation that comes with the actual outreach. But I have to imagine that's one of the biggest benefits of someone joining something like the VC. Do you have students or early career folks that you've seen become a valuable part of your community in a way?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (19:41):

Yes. We opened the membership up to students and more emerging professionals a year and a half ago, so to speak, and it's been really beautiful to see students making connections with our professional members and having those relationships last. The ethos of VC is like, pick someone up and pull them up, and every generation should do that. So yes, that's been great to see.

Kendell Kelton (20:10):

Let's dive into your documentary, On Our Own Island. It is such a personal and emotional film about your family. The film focuses on your parents' relationship and ultimately your father's passing. I found it incredibly moving. I will try not to cry as we talk about it. But especially as someone who lost their own father just a couple years ago, watching your family navigate such a raw and human experience really resonated with me, and I have to imagine with others. So I'd love to talk about the decision behind why you all decided to make such a film.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (20:53):

Sure. I'm really glad to hear that it resonated with you, Kendall. So thank you for that, and I'm sorry about your dad.

Kendell Kelton (21:00):

Same to you.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (21:02):

Yeah, we're in the club together. So my mom actually was in the media, and I have learned everything from her. So I grew up with that knowledge of media being a powerful tool to help people, as we discussed. My dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and we thought he would beat it. As a family, we made a conscious decision to film the journey, so to speak, not knowing... Assuming that everything would be okay, and that this would just be a thing that we did, and he wanted it to happen.

(21:39):

It's about my parents, but more it's about this idea of two people who were in love and what happens when one of them passes on, and how do both deal with that, and the beauty that lies beyond that. So it was really hard. It was the hardest thing that I've ever filmed. When my dad was diagnosed, I was actually on a shoot for The New Yorker doing a story on a woman who was about to give birth, so it was just so ironic.

Kendell Kelton (22:08):

It's crazy juxtaposition.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (22:10):

Very crazy. So we filmed it. And then when he was dying, he was like, "Obviously, I want this to continue, and I want you guys to make it, and I want you to do it so that you can help other people realize that death can be a beautiful thing, so to speak, and that it's something that we need to get closer to." And we did it, and it played in film festivals around the world, and helped a lot of people kind of confront their fear of death, and helped their loved ones die in the way that they want, and I think he would be happy with it.

Kendell Kelton (22:44):

Well, you mentioned your mom. She had a pretty groundbreaking career in media, especially during the time in which she came to rise. How was you all's collaboration through this? You all are both professionals in your own right and have found your own successes, as you mentioned, but you were both emotionally tethered to something. So were there challenges there? Or, maybe it ended up being opportunities.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (23:09):

Yeah. Well, her name is Ellie Dylan. She, at one point, was the most listened to female disc jockey in radio history. She replaced Don Imus. She had an Emmy award-winning TV show. She knows her shit. I'm 37 years younger than her. And throughout the process I would have opinions and she would have opinions, but usually, pretty much 99% of the time, she was right. I get that. So it was definitely not an easy process because I think I come from a family of very opinionated people, but also it taught me a lot about collaboration. It was a magical experience, and certainly not... It's weird to say in the context of your father's death, but I think it was a really interesting way to go through a major life event in a collaborative way and learn-

Sky Dylan-Robbins (24:03):

... in a collaborative way and learn things in every way from it too.

Kendell Kelton (24:07):

How do you think that film in particular impacted either your storytelling or your view of storytelling?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (24:15):

On a logistical level, learning how to make a feature and going through all of those things was really helpful for me to be able to support the kinds of programs that we run for people who are making features. So everything from what the editing process looks like to DCPs, to E&O insurance, to legal, etc. All of those things and distribution, and that was fascinating to learn. And then just generally, I think learning a lot about patience and long-term project making. Everything that I learned on that applies to everything that I do. I think any project that a person does that takes a while and that they're proud of, it supersedes mediums and just applies to other things too.

Kendell Kelton (25:05):

From the moment of diagnosis till he passed was 20 months, so almost two years. Y'all are, again, human dealing with grief and then thinking about how to take that, having to edit and compile, and then talk about how you take this thing out to the world. And so once y'all were able to do it, how long was that process?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (25:32):

He was diagnosed in 2016, and so it was almost 10 years.

Kendell Kelton (25:36):

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Well, I think that's just a testament to what you said of sometimes these very impactful stories take time and you have to be patient and you have to adapt with ebbs and flows in them. What was it like to scream at festivals and hear the audience reactions to the film?

Sky Dylan-Robbins (25:57):

Probably the most rewarding thing in the world. I mean, spoiler alerts, a person does naturally die on camera and you see their last breath. And to be in a gigantic theater full of people, many of whom have never witnessed a death before, I mean, you could hear it. For every screening that we did, instead of there being a Q&A for the filmmakers, we would turn it back to the audience and ask them to share about their experiences.

Kendell Kelton (26:32):

Oh, I love that.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (26:34):

And people would stand up and bawling, say the most incredible things that I saw this, and I feel my whole perspective of death has changed and of love, and I'm going to go talk to my blah, blah, blah, etc. They were just incredible stories. And so also, I think goes back to the idea of the essential aspects of media and why we make films. To see a powerful story in the context of other people and feel that instead of just watching at home by yourself, which is also great, there's something so powerful about watching something and experiencing it together in a movie theater with people. And I'm grateful that people have seen and resonated with it, so it's great.

Kendell Kelton (27:24):

Well, and it's a topic that every one of us will have to face at one point or another however way it comes, right? Watching that moment on screen brought me right back to being next to my dad in his last moments. And... sorry.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (27:44):

No.

Kendell Kelton (27:45):

But it's a different form of community, right? Even though I was watching it at home by myself, it's like oh. I remember your mom... It was either you or your mom after his final breath, it was that, "Oh, my God." You could hear it in the background. And I was like, somebody else knows what this feels like. And that's very special, and I think that's just a testament to what you're able to do with your craft. So I will pretend I'm in that audience and somebody coming up and bawling, crying and say I see that and I appreciate it, and it means more to people than you realize.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (28:26):

That means so much, Kendell. Thank you. I mean, I 100% feel you and that goes back to the power of filmmaking and as you said, what you can do. And also, just the idea that no matter how people experience it, whether it's at home or in a hospital or whatever, it's like at the end of the day, the grief that one has, it's about love. That's all it is. And love is the thing that's at the heart of everything that we do, and that's what ties us together.

Kendell Kelton (28:57):

Well, I think that's a beautiful way to wrap this conversation and also a very great analogy in terms of what y'all are trying to achieve with the video consortium. Before we go, though, I do want to ask if you could please let our audience know where to find you, where to learn more about the VC, and then we'll link everything in the show notes.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (29:18):

That sounds great. Thank you. I am off social media, but the video consortium is very active.

Kendell Kelton (29:24):

Congratulations.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (29:25):

I know. It's been hard. I'm really loving it off of that, but I support when VC needs it. Videoconsortium.org. We are on all of the platforms. If you're a filmmaker or you're a creative who's a student, an established person, whatever you are, VC is a really great community and would love for anyone listening or watching to join us. It's just videoconsortium.org/join, I believe.

Kendell Kelton (29:50):

Amazing. Well, thank you again. We'll talk soon, Skye.

Sky Dylan-Robbins (29:53):

Sounds great. Thank you, Kendell.

Kendell Kelton (29:56):

Well, that's it for today's episode of The Rough Draft. To learn more about our guests and to find links and resources related to the conversation, check out rev.com/podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to rate and subscribe in order to stay up-to-date with the latest episodes. Thank you for listening, and we look forward to seeing you again on the next episode of The Rough Draft.

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